Quote:
Originally Posted by EcoShan
Once again u replied without even reading my post, second time. u might be superman but u cant read such a long thread and type ur reply in the matter of some blinks. anyways i would still keep on answering everything INsha Allah.
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I am a very fast reader. i read it the first time, and the second time. but it missed the mark.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EcoShan
By the way u and Ume-Zafeerah are multi nicks??? u were telling her ke araam se bhi baat hosekti hai and now u r doing the samething. Quote me just one sentence where i said i know more than u do, or u dont know anything or i challenged ur expertise, just show me one post and i'd quit.
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You did not understand what I was saying, said you will go to basics but you like teh lariba ppl are still stuck in semantics, while I am focusing on the basic mechanics...
I tried to hint towards it in a rather humorous manner, unless you think referring to myself as chaprassi was some attack on you.
relax..I know ppl can get worked up here, but id you are making a point and you dont think its getting through, please dont get frustrated, try explaining it in a diff way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EcoShan
What i said was ppl in past used fancy wording like Mudaraba, murabaha, musharakah, Riba, Qadr, riba il nisa'ee just to play with words and to hide the word riba so that ppl could think its something islamic, i didn say u didn know anything.
This kinda attitude really makes me uncomfortable when mature ppl just assume something and make it ego prob. no thanks.
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again you assume way too much, there is no ego prob. But just like there are fancy words that u mention, when you look at the essence of how the lariba transcations actually occur you will see that there is more there than meets the eye.
years ago I was having the same issues with peope who were talking of islamic financing and the discussion was fairly identical, and now we know that these financing approaches were not quite as islamic as we thought..
Quote:
Originally Posted by EcoShan
Similar but not same, right?? i told u in the begining that there is a very thin line, u have to leave all ur bias to see that.
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similar, same..close enough,lets not get stuck in semantics please.
no bias..prove it. you have not proven it yet
Quote:
Originally Posted by EcoShan
millionth time m gona repeat the samething, they are renting money, they are renting money, they are renting money, and rent is decided by the fed reserve, and its totally haram.
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millionth time, lariba uses teh foundations of an intersts based system in property valuations, payment info etc etc..and callign soemthign haram as halal is well not halal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EcoShan
but shariah bank is renting the house, and renting a house is not haram in islam, everyone rents, m sure when ur family came to US u didn buy a house the very first day unless u were super rich, must've had rented the house. and the rent is not decided by Fed reserve or islamic bank or u, its decided by taking quoutes from 6 different real estate brokers.
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sharia bank does not have the title...does it? who has the tile?
and what are teh quotes on 6 diff brokers based on?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EcoShan
i think m really bad in explaining.
Ayite if the house is $400K and u own 50% and islamic bank owns 50% so it means u own $200K and the bank owns 200K, now recession hits ur door and the prices drop, and the house is now 300K, so 50% of ur share is 150K and banks is also 150K. so both of u took 50% of the loss.
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okay so answered one question, run it with the example of you own 5% and bank owns 95% and price drops from 400K to 300K
Quote:
Originally Posted by EcoShan
BTW wat part of the statements below u couldnt understand and didn show the difference between conventional and Islamic banking??
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I understood, but what you are missing is that there is a lot going on there, u sign traditional mortgage documents noting interets rates and all, lariba rider has its own words, the title goes to you, not to the bank, so in essence it is not different than conventional loan.
the ONLY point of difference is if the loss is shared equally, rest is all the same. and my issue is with the basis of it, the sources of funding and methods of calculating.
and even the loss issue is rleevant really in case of a bankruptcy.
again, personally to me it has no relevance, I dont believe that interest today is what riba was back in the day. right or wrong i am consistent.
The issue is that the people who want to avoid interest were first hoodwinked by all these shariah compliant things that numerosu experts said were the real mccoy and now we find out its not the case.
lariba has to be put to the test to. just the profit and loss sharing is not enough. valuations, contract documents, funding sources and title issues are all real, we can ignore them and say oh they dont matter, but dont they?
i see your point of viee completely and know lariba well enough that I did not learn anything new, this is not an atatck on you, you provided the information thatI knew already, which is good because atleats it validates what I knew.
lets agree to disagree and move on..
On a separate note, I would be interested in finding out how they are dealing with foreclosures btw, case studies would be nice.