Chip Architect talks about power of XBox 360 and PS3

fat spartan · Jan 20th, 2009, 10:34 AM

IGN: Chip Architect Speaks About Xbox 360 and PS3 Creation

Quote:

Chip Architect Speaks About Xbox 360 and PS3 Creation

But which is more powerful in the end?

by Nate Ahearn

January 16, 2009 - Gamasutra.com secured an interview with David Shippy who was the chief architect of the power processing unit for the Cell (the engine that drives the PS3). The chip began the research and design process in 2000 when Sony asked IBM for an "order of magnitude increase in processing performance." Ironically it was that very ambition and the design that followed that would one day be the foundation for Microsoft's Xbox 360.

Shippy describes the design goals as shooting for a "supercomputer on a chip" and says "We came along with Cell and we were double the frequency of any PC out there." Then in 2003 Microsoft comes to IBM and, much like Sony, asked them to design a chip unlike anything that was currently on the market. Naturally, IBM showed The Big M their latest and greatest tech which, at that time, was the multi-core "road map" that was used to create what would eventually become the Cell. Keep in mind, that all of this original technology was originally financed by Sony and Toshiba for use in the PS3.

Shippy maintains that Microsoft never got a look at the actual Cell processor and maintains that it was IBM's right to sell the technology to other platforms, such as the Xbox 360, but also states, "The Cell itself and the fundamental architecture that went into that -- that was all proprietary for PS3."

Even still, the fact remains that Xbox 360 chip designers and PS3 chip designers were, at one time, working side-by-side with one another at IBM. Shippy details distaste that developed between the two teams, "when this whole Xbox thing came in, there were certainly a lot of guys -- even on my team -- that were fairly upset about it."

But when asked the flame war inducing question, "which console is actually more powerful?"

Shippy tells Gamasutra, "I'm going to have to answer with an 'it depends.' Again, they're completely different models. So in the PS3, you've got this Cell chip which has massive parallel processing power, the PowerPC core, multiple SPU cores… it's got a GPU that is, in the model here, processing more in the Cell chip and less in the GPU. So that's one processing paradigm -- a heterogeneous paradigm."

"With the Xbox 360, you've got more of a traditional multi-core system, and you've got three PowerPC cores, each of them having dual threads -- so you've got six threads running there, at least in the CPU. Six threads in Xbox 360, and eight or nine threads in the PS3 -- but then you've got to factor in the GPU," Shippy explains. "The GPU is highly sophisticated in the Xbox 360."

"At the end of the day, when you put them all together, depending on the software, I think they're pretty equal."

Shippy then goes on to dissect each console's flaws: for the Xbox 360 it was the initial heatsink and cooling problems and for the PS3 it's the coding issues experienced by developers. While Shippy was not directly involved in the programming of the Xbox 360's power consumption, his best guess is that Microsoft brought their system specs right up to the edge of functioning properly and melting down which Shippy describes as "playing with fire."

On the PS3's supposed programming issues Shippy says it's "definitely a new paradigm" but claims that once developers wrap their head around the nuances of the system, they can actually get impressive results for "low-level coding."

For more on the story behind the creation of the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 chipsets, check out David Shippy's book.

So the chip archtitect here says that power-wise the XBox 360 and PS3 are pretty much equal, with the XBox 360 being easier to develop for.

Malik Zulfi · Jan 20th, 2009, 11:20 AM

Intresting Article. . . I m more curious about about game consoles other tha PC.

Spock · Jan 21st, 2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Shippy then goes on to dissect each console's flaws: for the Xbox 360 it was the initial heatsink and cooling problems and for the PS3 it's the coding issues experienced by developers.

boy, that makes perfect sense. Sony, being a hardware powerhouse has ALOT more experience in PCB design, thermal mechanics of embedded/power systems, and Microsoft lacking exactly that but being eons ahead with the coding!

Malik Zulfi · Jan 21st, 2009, 08:56 AM

I have the impression tha people like PS3 more than X BOX . . . Why ?

fat spartan · Jan 21st, 2009, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malik Zulfi

I have the impression tha people like PS3 more than X BOX . . . Why ?

That's what you're seeing here maybe. XBox 360 does remain ahead in sales and from what I'm reading on gaming sites, has a higher attach rate (more software sold per unit). This might be another incentive for third parties to put their franchises that were traditionally exclusive to the Playstation brand on the XBox 360 as well.

I guess the Playstation brand name is still better known than XBox. PS3 can also be appealing to consumers since it also doubles as a Blu-Ray player. Some advantages that this has from a gaming perspective is that the disc can store more data. This allows for larger games to be on a single disc where as the same game would require multiple DVDs. However, the downside to it is that it also drives up the cost of the PS3, and the disc reading speed is also slower, resulting in longer load times. To help improve load times, some games require mandatory installs to the hard drive. However, even with these installs, the game load times are comparable to those of the XBox 360 reading off the disc.

Also, in my opinion, the PS3 as a console is better looking (not the games on it, the actual console). As a gamer, I prefer the XBox 360 because of it's selection of games and because out of all the 3 current console makers, I prefer Microsoft's franchises. Another cool feature is that even gamers can easily develop their own games for it, which I've been playing around with for the past couple of weeks.

Malik Zulfi · Jan 21st, 2009, 09:53 AM

Yes you are right my info source is mostly GS. But it seems that I can learn many things about gaiming from you.

This thread is really informative. I have learned a lot about both consoles. but even now I m confused if i want to buy a console which one should I prefer.

fat spartan · Jan 21st, 2009, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malik Zulfi

Yes you are right my info source is mostly GS. But it seems that I can learn many things about gaiming from you.

This thread is really informative. I have learned a lot about both consoles. but even now I m confused if i want to buy a console which one should I prefer.

Actually the article is more about the technical aspects. These would not really concern an average consumer. Before recommending a console, I would suggest that you first decide what you're looking for in one. My main criteria is always the games available on the console. Usually, the main source of exclusive games comes from the console manufacturer's first parties and second parties.

From what I gather from your posts, you're a fan of sports games and racing games. Both consoles get EA Sports games as well as NFS series. They both also have their own racing games.

Anyhow, here's a (perhaps not so complete) list of the pros and cons for the two consoles:

XBox 360:

Pros:

Great selection of games.
Downloadable games (XBox Live Arcade)
Easier to develop for.
Optional installs help reduce load times.
More affordable. (Arcade bundle sells for $199 but lacks a hard drive. Pro bundle with 60GB HDD is 299)
Some games have exclusive content for download (e.g. GTA4).
Excellent third party support; the console has/is getting Tekken, Final Fantasy, Devil May Cry, which were previously exclusive to the PS brand.
Many of its accessories (controllers, steering wheel) also compatible with the PC.

Cons:

You have to pay to play online, however I hear that their online service is better than that of their competitors.
Earlier versions of hardware more prone to failure. However, Microsoft does give a 3 year warranty for this.
Earlier bundles had limited hard drive space(20GB) for downloading demos, trailers, XBLA games.
Use of Wifi requires purchase of additional hardware.
Limited backward compatibility with XBox (original) titles.

PS3:

Pros

Decent selection of games.
Downloadable games (PSN).
Wifi ready out of the box.
Can be used as Blu-Ray player.
More reliable hardware.
Allows you to browse the web as well.

Cons:

Recent models were stripped of PS2 backward compatibility.
Limited third party exclusives. (some good ones are MGS4 and Valkyria Chronicles)
Blu-Ray drive's slow disc read speed leads to longer load times.
Mandatory installs sometimes take longer than 20 minutes.
Higher price point than its competitors (Cheapest PS3 SKU is $399).

If the games you're after come out on multiple platforms, then the next thing I would look at is the controllers, see which one is more comfortable in your hands. Then there's the price and see if it has the features you can't live without (e.g. since I'm getting the consoles purely for games, I don't care that the 360 doesn't play Blu-Ray discs.)

Malik Zulfi · Jan 22nd, 2009, 02:43 AM

Xbox is looking more attractive . . .

*Masoom Muskaan* · Jan 22nd, 2009, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malik Zulfi

Xbox is looking more attractive . . .

sajane ke lea buy kerna he

Malik Zulfi · Jan 22nd, 2009, 08:37 AM

Array o Roondu main uss ki specifications k hisaab say keh raha hoon. As described by FS bhai i like it more over PS3

fat spartan · Jan 22nd, 2009, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malik Zulfi

Xbox is looking more attractive . . .

That's how I feel too (as I've mentioned many many times already). The PS3 does have more technology in it but that's also what drives up the price. I think that's also what tends to attract a lot of people.

If price is not an issue for you, I'd suggest this one:
Amazon.com: Xbox 360 Elite Holiday Bundle 2008 (Includes 120 GB Hard Drive): Video Games

For $399, it includes a wireless controller, 120 GB hard drive and HDMI cable as well as 2 games (that I haven't personally tried, but for everything else it is a good deal).

If you're looking for something cheaper, then I'd go with this one:
Amazon.com: Xbox 360 Pro Holiday Bundle 2008 Includes 60GB Hard Drive: Video Games

For $299, it includes a 60GB hard drive, wireless controller and the same two games, which I haven't played.