crankthatskunk

It seems while I was away from the forum, Luci once again closed the thread in haste. Before I could respond to TLK post and one of Luci’s incredible posts. I have now seen another post by Iconoclast.

TLK I will open a new thread and respond to you and your moderators. Unfortunately you have not given any satisfactory answers to defend your practices. Probably you and your Moderators are still in doubt about my resolve. It is matter of principle and policy. But probably you just can not understand simple logic, applicable universally.

I am starting this thread to show what these Qadianis write in their forums and other places, to prove it to your team and to my Muslim brothers and sisters who are reading these threads and are participating in the arguments.

I find it difficult for mature and sensible people not to understand my arguments; you know it is not for any personal gains or fame. I am doing it out of principle and fair practices, which should be adopted by this site.

These Qadianis claim that they are “true Muslims” and falsely try to put this arguments that writing against and exposing the lies of Mirza and their other cultists is some how disrespect to their religious figures.
Despite my constant questions none of you have answers to my simple questions.

Who are their religious figures? Which religion they belong to?
Are they claming that Mirza is the religious figure of Islam? They should tell me which religion Mirza belong to for us Muslims to consider him a religious figure?

Let me show you all some very recent examples from these “true Muslims” and their “true Islam”. It is in their own words, which demonstratively shows their lack of respect for Allah SWT; the Holy Quran, Prophet Muhammad SAW and every Islamic belief and tenet.

After reading this garbage, answer me do I not have the right to respond to these people? Under what rules and laws you can stop me responding and exposing them? I am particularly stunned to read the comments by Luci, which I will deal in a new thread, because she has closed the thread which was moved.


A Qadiani poster on another forum first provided short cut to a video on you tube then he asked questions, some posters gave him answers; he then produced this tirade. I want to make it clear I did not take part on that thread at all, because for me when they start writing such open animosity against Prophet SAW and Holy Quran then my job is already done. No better proof to show that they are not Muslims then their own words; exactly like Mirza.

But the heresies did not stopped here, another poster who call himself Grandee of this cult, wrote;

It is clear that this grandee who claimed to have the access or contacts with the prominent Qadianis right after Mirza’s era thinks that prophets sent to all nations in all ages is but a concoction. This by the way is written in the Holy Quran, even though no numbers for the prophets were given. But it is clear that this man have absolutely no idea about Quranic teachings.

My Muslim brothers and sisters let us proceed further; this grandee writes;

According to him messengers were not sent to all nations, Arabs by use the word Qaum only mean tribes and sub tribes. Therefore according to this Qadiani, when Allah SWT decreed in the Holy Quran;


10:47 (Asad) NOW every community has had an apostle; and only after their apostle has appeared [and delivered his message] is judgment passed on them, in all equity; and never are they wronged.

Probably this Qadiani does not understand Quran at all, the word used in this verse is every “ummah” not “Quam”.

Let’s explore Quran further;

وَلَقَدْ بَعَثْنَا فِي كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ رَّسُولاً أَنِ اعْبُدُواْ اللّهَ وَاجْتَنِبُواْ الطَّاغُوتَ فَمِنْهُم مَّنْ هَدَى اللّهُ وَمِنْهُم مَّنْ حَقَّتْ عَلَيْهِ الضَّلالَةُ فَسِيرُواْ فِي الأَرْضِ فَانظُرُواْ كَيْفَ كَانَ عَاقِبَةُ الْمُكَذِّبِينَ (16:36)

16:36 And indeed, within every community have We raised up an apostle [entrusted with this message]: "Worship God, and shun the powers of evil!" And among those [past generations] were people whom God graced with His guidance, just as there was among them [many a one] who inevitably fell prey to grievous error: go, then, about the earth and behold what happened in the end to those who gave the lie to the truth!

Once again for the shame of this Grandee of the Qadianis, there is no mention of the word “Quam” in the verse instead once again “Ummah” is written.

We know “ummah” can be bigger then a tribe, a community or a nation. We have Muslim Ummah which expands over more than 200 countries of the world. Prophet Muhammad SAW is prophet to this Ummah which can contain the part of the population of the whole globe.

There are other verses in the Holy Quran with the word “Ummah” in them for the communities, which could spread any geographical locations.

The sources of this kind of non-sense from these Qadianis are “Islam and Muslim hating sites”. I know exactly from which article this person has borrowed these ideas. He has given a clue when he wrote “The idea that the "Qur'an" is word of God is not tenable, because it has lot of contradictions within its text” (Nauzobillah).

It is very clear this man does not think and believe Quran is Word of God, i.e. he is accusing Prophet Muhammad SAW directly of lying (nauzobillah) and associating the lies to Allah SWT (nauzobillah); he also believes that Quran has contradictions in its text. Another user pointed to him to the term “Ummah”, he responded in these words.

He thinks that concept of “Ummah” is used by Prophet SWT in the treaty. What are the implications of his comments? He thinks that Quran is not Word of Allah SWT as evidence produced vividly proves, but here he is alleging that Prophet SAW has written the Holy Quran (nauzobillah), otherwise there was no concept of word Ummah before, I will expose this in my future article Inshallah. For time being I am just interested in the comments of these Qadianis.

Then the original poster of the video joined in the heresies of the Grandee, he wrote;

He thinks Quran is not a perfect book. Also a usual use of Qadiani mantra “Mullah”.

He admits that he has no answers but it did not stop him to write heresies against Quran and Prophet Muhammad SAW.

Then entered another Qadiani to give his input on the subject matter he writes;

As I said before, at the moment I am just presenting the evidence of their heresies, I will respond to all this in my article whenever time permits me. I had a long discussion with this poster whose comments produced above for Moses As (you can call it a debate if you believe in such, because most of the time he had no answers, therefore I continued to provide all the proofs) with him on the topic of “Evolution” and “creation of the Universe”.

These were some recent examples from another forum. This material is from just one thread. There are many threads like this, I have witnessed every kind of heresy from these “true Muslims” in last three years. I will present some selected passages in my article Inshallah.

It is just to prove to those who can not get my point of view and reasons why I write against these Qadianis.

There is another user on the same forum which has written using many IDS but his sources were always been “Muslim and Islam hating sites” and authors.

He has responded to many of my articles on my web log, I have not displayed his messages yet, but I have kept them save, I will display them with my detailed responses. He thinks I don’t want to permit his non-sense on my web log. He couldn’t be more wrong. This is priceless material coming from “True Muslims “followers of “True Islam”. Why should I not produce these wonderful examples? But it can only be displayed on my web log with appropriate responses. Just to prove that I have absolutely no problem displaying it publicly I produce some of these gems from his remarks on my web log. These remarks have never been produced before on any forum or on my web log.

His heresies are apparent and clear against Prophet SAW and the Holy Quran. This man was defeated by me on this issue in a debate, but it didn’t stop him to hurl the abuse at Holy Prophet again. When your intention is to write and run away then you can write whatever you want.

This man was very keen on cut and paste jobs from “Islam and Muslim hating sites and authors”. He had been busted many times by me and other Muslims for his plagiarism.

Once he was caught in his cut and paste job from an article by “Sam Shamoun”. This author we Muslims recognize very well. When I provided proofs of his cut and paste mastery. This incredible liar claimed that this article was written by him before he converted to Qadianiat. Therefore, Qadianis should be happy and proud they got “Sam Shamoun” in their midst now as a Qadiani.

Once he was caught with another masterful cut and paste job from an article written by a scientist. This liar claimed that the writer is his fellow scientist.

Probably now people like Mr. TLK understand I am not having empty talks, I have experience all kind of non-sense from these Qadianis and have read every kind of heresy imaginable from them. I responded to them and defeated them on each and every issue.

I will continue with his heresies, he wrote another remark on a different article “heresies of Mirza- attacks on Isa As”

Muslims brothers and sisters read the heresies of this shameful liar who had been busted by me over and over again. See for yourselves his use of abusive language for Prophet SAW, and his grave and baseless accusations against our beloved Prophet SAW.

Then again on another thread “Marriage with Hindus” he wrote;
.

Then he called Prophet SAW and Muslims as pedophiles, common accusations made against Prophet SAW by many “Muslim and Islam haters”.

Quote:

I uploaded a new Web Blog today and I challenge you to refute it, only if you can ! Muhammad sanctioned you to be Pedophile and let me expose your filty face one more time.

I will take care of him when time permits, as I have taken care of him over 3 years on that forum, where he has to flee every time he got stuck and then re-emerged with a new ID after a month or sometimes even far longer period.
Then on another article “Mirza’s understanding: earth is static” he wrote;

Quote:

You think Allah made earth rotating and moving ? You are a shameless liar of top class; “27:61 Is not He (better than your gods) Who has made the earth as A FIXED ABODE, and has placed rivers in its midst, and has placed firm mountains therein, and has set a barrier between the two seas (of salt and sweet water). Is there any ilah (god) with Allah? Nay, but most of them know not” Now curse Allah for such an idiot mistake, he made the eart as a Fixed adobe, lol

On the article “Mirza a false prophet” he wrote;

Quote:

Good that you talked about testing a Prophet, did Muhammad pass the test of Biblical accounts ? guess what, He failed miserably

Mr. TLK I have listed ample proofs from very recent comments by these Qadianis. Have a read and judge how patient and methodical I had been with these heretics. I have exposed every thing with patience and diligence.
These are just few examples, but I have read and responded to literally hundreds of comments like this in last three years.

Mr. TLK If you are a Muslim, then please tell me; am I wrong to call these people “enemies of Islam and Muslims”? I am wrong to call them heretics? Am I not entitled to respond to them and expose the lies of Mirza? Am I not right to show them their true faces and reality of their “True Islam” and their claims of being “true Muslims”?

Their forums regularly allow all this “Islam and Muslim hating” material without any hesitation or shame. But these people still claim innocently they are true Muslims. What a joke.

Now I am going to respond to you and what Luci has written in a appropriate thread.

Mr. TLK you should not doubt my resolve for one second. If you want to align yourself and your site with these “Islam and Muslim hating” individuals, then it is your choice.

know what my choices are and I surely also know how to exercise them. You go through this material and digest it, if you are a Muslim then I judge it yourself.

I will come back with another thread to discuss the problems.

TLK

Yaar, are you from Gen Zia's tribe? He is the one who used to use these tactics. If you are a Muslim, agree with me, else you are not a Muslim? What kind of argument is that

Mr.Popat

<EDIT>

d-tox..ed

Ditto

chacha_Ghalib

what arguments? rants don't qualify as arguments. maybe you ought to find something else to do besides writing infinitely long rants against ahmadis.

all your arguments are of the type laid out in this post of yours. We don't know the context of these posts nor do we know if the posters were ahmadi. The first quote seems to be from an athiest who is against all religions. Even if we accept your claim that these posts were made by ahmadis, it doesn't prove jack. The question is, if some forum out there allows swearing, should GS also follow the same policy?

you can't carry a civil discussion and keep repeating the same allegations over and over. Even if a question is answered a thousand times, you keep telling your "muslim brothers and sisters" how the responding ahmadi can't answer your questions and how they are trying to misguide your "muslim brothers and sisters". Trying to discuss anything of substance with you is like banging my head against the wall and frankly i have better things to do.

Mr.Popat

when he says "my muslims brothers and sisters" or "us muslims" , it makes me think as if hes trying to convince himself that he is Muslim, or trying to convince other users here that what he follows is the true teaching of Islam and thats what a muslim should follow. Some sort of phobia i'd say.

kchughtai

After reading his OP, the only thing that came to my mind was Dustin Hoffman's "Wag the dog".

kchughtai

The ideas presented in the quotes quoted by mr. CTS cannot be written by an Ahmadi. If he is Ahmadi by title, he certainly doesn't rpresent true beliefs of Jammat-e-Ahmadiyya. Let me give you an example.

The quotes starting from 'story of Qibla' till the last quote regarding 'false prophet'
were taken from Weblog From Sumuque
A blog by a guy who is clearly agnostic and cannot be related to Ahmadiyya Jammat. Here is what he wrote about his blog

pretty much self explanatory but mr. CTS was very quick to brand him as an Ahmadi
Any person who talks about our holy prophet(pbuh) and Hazrat Messiah Maud(as) in extremely disrespectful tone and use harsh words for them, is without a shred of doubt, NOT AHMADI

kchughtai

crankthatskunk

Oh boy oh boy, some real classic works are coming out now from people who do not understand the meanings and implications of integrity. Those who accept any old lies from Mirza and their chiefs, who have made lying their unique business.

These kinds of people are questioning my credibility, what a joke. Would they be this honest with the writings of Mirza and pass the litmus test?

First Chacha Ghalib wrote;

Well spotted Mr. Chacha Ghalib, I happen to agree with you for this one, but unfortunately these are Qadianis, your own creed. You will see the proofs and they decide for yourself, give them whatever name you want, it is your problem indeed.

Another writes;

Good Job KC Chugtai, You are partially right, yes it is from Sumuque; not from his Web log but from the messages he left on my web log. He has opened this Web log to invite me for a debate. He left a short cut on my web log but I never ever worried about this kind of person. He had plenty of opportunities as Sumuque and as Phippi46 and other ids he used. I took care of him time after time.

Like I said, when I reduce Qadiani to write heresies, my job is already done, I prove my case “they are not remotely Muslims”. Why should I worry when they are destroying their own case and claims to be “True Muslims”?

This man has written following as Phippi46 on Ahmedi.org


It is up to you to decide if you want to own him or not, but he is making the claim that he has written the article and he has converted to Qadianiat two years ago that would be 4 years now. The article he plagiarized was from Sam shamoun; therefore, like I said you are lucky to have Sam Shamoun in your Jamat according to this liar's claim. The proofs of this declaration by Phippi46 can be found on following place, as for Sam Shamoun, most of Muslims know this infamous person, and what he does.

Quadianis moral and intellectual Bankruptcy - General Discussion - Discussion Areas - AhmediOrg Forum - Message Board - Yuku

The comments I have already pointed out were written as Sumuque and as Jason, I still have them on my Web log with time date and his IP address logged. Like I said I will answer them in details when I get time. He is mistaken to think I will worry about his nasty and obnoxious remarks about Prophet SAW. Why should I? When they are the best advertisement and proofs against their claims of “True Muslims”.

The second proof of this man’s incredible lies when he was busted for his cut and paste jobs are found in another thread listed below. This time he was using “Sumuque” ID. He claimed the article was from a fellow philosopher and scientist.

If people follow below thread further, in his post
Posts: 158
08/07/08 07:25:55
He accuses that Quran was plagiarized by Prophet SAW (nauzobillah).

All these proofs can be found from here on this thread; from my post;
Posts: 1125 08/07/08 06:45:14 on wards.


Challenge to Tayyab1 - General Discussion - Discussion Areas - AhmediOrg Forum - Message Board - Yuku


The first badge of quotes were from a very recent thread on Ahmedi. Org. Like I said I read and laugh, because it really is amusing when “true Muslims” show their “true Isalm” to Muslims. Job done I said.

Prophets of Islam - General Discussion - Discussion Areas - AhmediOrg Forum - Message Board - Yuku

I have shown selected paragraphs in my first post on this thread. The comments were from the posts of two individuals. Second one is the Grandee, known as Mobi. He claimed to know the top brass of your cult, when he was a practicing Qadiani, What he is now, feel free to ask him. You can read the whole thread, enjoy it, and then claim that these people are not Qadianis. Why should I worry? Like I said, job done.

On your suggestions of me being Muslim or not, then it doesn’t suits you the “true Muslims”. Did you forget what Mirza wrote and what your Ka-Lips wrote?

Another Qadiani was trying to raise questions on my article “Mirza’s understanding: Earth is static” he should read this thread, answers to his questions were already given by me; I do not have time to waste to repeat these arguments once again.

Mirza's understanding; Earth is Static - General Discussion - Discussion Areas - AhmediOrg Forum - Message Board - Yuku

My message to all the Qadianis; do not level accusations which you are not able to support and sustain, in places outside of this site.

You doubt my resolve on your own risk. Why you think I am so bold?

Why you think despite Qadianis best efforts I was never banned on the Qadianis forums and sites?

I am sure despite the wishes of the Qadianis on this site; there is no chance of this happening here either. The administrators of this site are much more intelligent people then you Qadianis are giving them credit, I am sure of it.

Qaddiani’s wishes are very clear in the words of Mr. D. tox.ed

Good choice Mr. D.tox.ed. Did you fail to notice I have asked you repeatedly if you think you or your Jamat can take me to the courts and win the arguments then why don’t you do it? Take care of the legality of my articles on my Web log; I bare full legal responsibilities for my writings. Instead of giving advice to the administrators of this site, you should follow your own advice and take care of the legality for the material displayed on my Web log.

Do you have courage? Let’s prove it to every one, I dare you. You will learn your lessons very fast. Have you ever read the books of Mirza with open eyes? For example can you give these arguments in the British Courts used by your cult regularly in the defense of Mirza that he was attacking and abusing the imaginary Jesus As of the Bible and his family including Mary As? I can promise you within no times you will be denouncing Mirza and his writings in front of a Judge.

You said you live in London, so shall I expect a high court Writ in few days? You and your empty bravado. I suggest you grow up.

Mr. TLK I will respond to your post, in due course.

d-tox..ed

Arre miaan tumhien baatien karne ka itna shk hai to Hyde Park Corner mien challe jaao yahan to sirf tumhien baaton se bist karte hian wahan ande tamaator wagera se khaatir tawaazo ho gi...

tumhien mene 100 dafa kaha hai ke tum aao open debate karro hamaari mosque hai Morden mien (Western Europe Biggest Mosque) Mashallah.

As long as you want to discuss the beliefs then lets have an OPEN debate you can bring as many people as you like...I will arrange for hospitality as well...tab tumhaara sabb khaata khull jaaye ga....theek hai.....if you want we can even do recording and post on you tube for members of GS to look.

This is an Open invitation from d-tox to Crank to come and visit us and discuss whatever he wants face to face.

crankthatskunk

d.tox.ed

What happened, I thought you were about to take care of legalities?
As I suspected, you have proven you have no courage whatsoever. But you were very keen to give this advice and assurance to the administrators of this site that you will take care of the legalities.

As for your invitation, I have already told you, I will arrange a hall and even TV coverage; you don’t have to worry about it at all. But I have only one condition, I wouldn’t debate it with people like you. I want Masroor; with his best Murabis with him. Them together and me alone; fair deal isn’t it? You guys really don’t like Zakir Naik, so I will extend the invitation to him, he will have his peace TV crew to film it and record your Masroor’s humiliations. It would also benefit me not to look up for reference, Dr Naik will be perfect reference library. He can also arrange the transmission from his Peace TV, I am sure he will be delighted to have Masroor on the stage. What is better then this to bust the bubble of Qadianis forever?

I will arrange at least one British Asian channel either to show it live or record it, together with one Pakistani based channel.

Don’t you worry Mr. D..tox..ed gets the acceptance and permissions from Masroor “Maja”, the alleged divinely appointed Ka-Lip. Leave the rest to me, I will arrange everything. Please do not waste my time, unless you can obtain his acceptance.

You should remember what happened to your Ka-Lip IV Tahir the liar; who created the scam of doubling of the bait figures every year for many years. After accepting the Muhabilla challenge from Abdul Sattar of Karachi.

I on the other hand want to see the knowledge of Masroor and prove to the world beyond any shadow of a doubt that he is not very intelligent, knowledgeable or religious. Forget about chosen by God (nauzobillah), he wouldn’t even get a routine job with his abilities. Take out the Chanda money, the scam his grand father Mirza the Kazzab of Qadian started for the progeny of his second wife, Masroor would end up penniless and jobless. On benefits like many of his followers. Who claim benefits while working, driving mini cabs, running shops and businesses, registered on the name of others for tax purposes. You should never forget I live in Surrey, the hub of your cultists. You probably live in similar locality. Therefore, after becoming aware of your cult, its nature and scams you run, I had done lots of research on your people. You can not fool me anymore.

Even the Home Office has become little bit wiser from the scam of alleged persecutions in Pakistan; run for so long by your Cultists. Creation of fraudulent documents, purposefully creating records of persecution by bribing the corrupt Police of Pakistan to register cases. According to the information I have received; for the first time they have decided to turn down some of the asylum applications and are in the process to deport few of your cultists.
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
Don’t waste my time again, get the acceptance from Masroor Maja, let us Muslims test him, how he was selected by God, nazuobillah?

Xenophanez

Feedback & complaints forum is not for members to settle issues between them. I am TEMPORARILY closing this thread now. TLK will make the final decision. Till then chill and go out have lussi or tea.