Irem

disclaimer: this post is not a statement but a question, meant for an open discussion

americans looked at afghani women and said, BURQA means subjugation of women. many afghani women wont agree.

non Muslims looked at HIJABI muslimahs and said HIJAB is subjugation of women. many muslim women wont agree.

the point is: cultures are different. peoples' needs are different. people think differently. one can never examine ANY socioreligious practice from an outsider's perspective and pass judgement on it, no matter how bizarre it seems.

or can one? because in Islam there are laws for humanity. when Islam came to prehistoric Arabia in the jahalia period, it completely asked for certain practices to be shunned.

hmmmm

an alternative view on Karo Kari was provided to me by a person i was speaking to:

it is because of strict practices like these that the environment in the villages is kept under control. there is free mixing of the genders in the villages and people know who is from which family. the trust level among people is high. they trust their sisters, daughters and wives will be safe and everyone knows their limits. thats why in the village environment there is no room for those who transgress those limits. such evils r nipped in the bud otherwise they would lead to the pollution of the entire society.

older buzurgs from villages where karo kari does happen, never condemn this practice.

the bill to condemn karo kari did not pass in the sindh assembly.

there must after all be a virtue in this practice?

us, as outsiders, who do not belong to the system, do we have a right or even the knowledge to pass judgement on it?

mAd_ScIeNtIsT

Abdullah bin Masud (ra) narrated that the Messenger of Allah (SAWS) said :

"The blood of a Muslim may not be legally spilt other than in one of three [instances] : the married person who commits adultery; a life for a life; and one who forsakes his religion and abandons the community."



Karo kari does not fall into one of these categories, so regardless of whether we belong to the system or not, we have a God-given duty to pass judgement on it as being evil. Every Muslim should hate this murderous cultural practice and strive to see it eliminated because it runs contrary to Islam.

That the Sindh assembly failed to condemn it does not imply that karo kiri has any virtue - what it implies is a deficiency of iman amongst the majority of the members of the Sindh Assembly.

Minerva

bear with me, my keyboard needs to be changed...

Well, we aren't outsiders. And you can't compare what the westerners think of hijab to the inhuman practice of Karao kari which is yet another form of honor killing. No! That is a flawed analogy. Since they have a screwedup notion of hijab, so they shldnt be saying anything, going by that we shouldt be uttering a word against any such perturbing acts of violence against indivuduals who being adults want to marry at their own free will. We do have an understanding of what goes on and we know this is an unislamic practice...

Have you heard of Dr. Amanat Solangi and Ghulam Musatafa Solange's ordeal, both frm Sindh and both in their late 30 or early 40's if my memory doesn't fail me. They have been runing all over to save themselves frm the wrath of their respective tribes. What is theor crime?? You still think that we don't have an understanding of the issue at hand?? Yeh kis kitab main likha hai that you cant exercise your own free will and marry the person of your choice.

And a woman and a man aren't declared karo or kari just when they want to exercise their right to marry the person of their choice. A woman can be killed and labeled as KAri by her family when the brothers and father decide to keep the property. A man can be labeled as Karo ( even if he never had an illicit relationship with anyone) if he was involved in any sort of fued with members of another tribe.

M

Could you define Karo Kari, what is it exactly. Because from what I understand, I cant see any justification for it.
I mean if its anything like this link, then its deplorable.

Even if it refers only to adulteress couples, there are clear islamic laws to deal with them, through the judicial process. There can be no vigilante movements or 'tribal elders' passing their sentence.

Even accusing someone of Adultery/Fornication without bringing 4 witnesses is punishable by 80 lashes according to Islamic Law and the person is forever declared a liar.

What virtue can there be then, when people (especially women) are being killed on the flimsiest of evidence or excuse.

We already have 'limits' to relationships set out by islam and we have prescribed punishments, anything else is just ignorance that our culture always seems to come up with.

You can read a islamic respose to this here link

JonyBr

Irem i will agree with u at a certain level.

First let make no mistake on this, the islamic punishment for being involved in sexual relation is to whip him/her, killing someone is far from that.

Recently (pardon me i m bad with names) the famouse media case when gov finally gave them the protection bcos they were declared karo kari in their village, within few weeks there were 3 more cases where married women run away with their lovers & asked for the protection.

& This is exactly whats going to happen if there is no strick law for such.

The actual problem is not Karo Kari, but as i think nisar khoro mentioned once the FALSE ACCUSATION of karo kari. in more then 80% of the cases victims are innocent, it is just the family despute or some wadera's involvement.

This process of declairing who is karo kari needs to be corrected & the punishment ofcourse should be according to the sharia'h law.

Madhanee

It was too short Mats. I was harassed by Cambodian guards while accidentally entering their waters in South China sea. It cost me 4 hours of detention and 2 bucks in bribe. God bless the United States of Amrikkka.

Roman

Madhanee, how much physical damage are we talking about?