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    1. #1
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      Me and my brother in law - constantly have this arguement so let me present it to you.

      I have been raised in the US all my life and about a year ago, I took a trip to Pakistan (for my sisters wedding). My brother in law, who is now here, is always talking about how much sex is going on in America.

      But, while my stay in Islamabad, I have seen things that would put Americans to shame. There were people doing it out in the fields, there was open prostitution. And if there isn't unrestricted sex in Pakistan ... why do we have so much AIDS?

      There are Brothels in every major city, Lahore, Islamabad and Karahchi - these are known facts. And I've seen first hand all the stuff that goes on in Islamabad - Jinnah Super??? There's even homosexuality going on there. and how ironic that the name of the city where all of this is happening is ISLAM-ABAD - Where Islam Prospers.

      This kind of stuff exsists everywhere. In America, it's just out in the open. My Brother in Law is always trying to protest how pure Pakistan is. I agree it is, compared to America but it is not free of it's fallacies. I think people who live outside of Pakistan have more of an appreciation for culture and religion than those who live there.

      It really bothers me when he tries to compare the two. I think that Pakistan is just as bad (if not more). There are Lahori girls who are "Living la Vida Loca" For realz.

      Please don't misunderstand me. I love my country, I'm proud of my heritage and I honor my culture. Sometimes people don't even believe that I've been raised in the US all my life. There is a lot of good in Pakistan. A lot of true and Naik People. But I just can't stand it when people put Double Standards on such matters.

      If the economic certainty was there, if we had a stable government ... I'm sure many Pakistani's would go back home in a heartbeat. (myself included) but the fact remains that it's not. We've had to go to other countries for that but in the process we give up something big too. That's another topc. But I would like to hear your views on this.

      [This message has been edited by SHAHZAD612 (edited February 21, 2001).]

      [This message has been edited by SHAHZAD612 (edited February 21, 2001).]

    2. #2
      Moderator Shor Sharaba, GS Book Club
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      interesting topic...

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    3. #3
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      i agree with you totally!!!!!!! i havent got enuf time to show u my support on this one....but def will say that there is alot that is NOT pure about Pakistan.....

      things have changed about that country and the older generations who migrated to other countries....still see their Pakistan as a pure, beautiful land.... it is......


      but alot of things have been brought forward which are definitely not Islamic...and probably not how our parents and grandparents left Pakistan. Shame really! such a shame!

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    4. #4
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      ...good points made by everyone...
      ...Personally, I believe that it's ALL upto the individual. If you are looking for something, you'll find it.

      ...You'll find some scientists working day and night on nuclear plans...soldiers dying for Pakistan everyday...students struggling passionately...farmers working from sunrise to sunset.......http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

      ...Heart is Pakistan, NOMATTER what.

      ...As far as, not going back to Pakistan because it's UNSTABLE-factor is concerned...I strongly believe that IF all the prosperous, educated, and successful Pakistanis will decide to go back...the country WILL stabilize...http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/tongue.gif http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smash.gif

    5. #5
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      I think if we can identify the problem, then maybe we can findout some solution to it...the other day, some mod closed ma thread : Sex before Marraige. We even cannot discuss but beat all Westerners privately...what a hypocracy!

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    6. #6
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      homosexuality, casual sex has always been there and they always will. The only difference is its acceptence. It is not accepted in Pakistan. It is accepted in the west. And that is the biggest differnce. If someone wants to ignores sex or homosexuality it is possibleto do so in pakistan. But not in the west. Prostitution is the second oldest trade in the world. It will always exist.

      At the end of the day if there is WIDESPREAD sexual activity things like AIDS, STD, teenage pregnancies will start.

    7. #7
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      thats wat get on my nerves ppl think pakistan is so pure but those sayin it really now how pure it is, the only diff is that they don't have shows on tele like jerry, ricky, but i think pakistani's in us/uk r more pure then those in pakistan

    8. #8
      ....dora diyay
      confused hamnay...

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      arayyyyyyyy .. http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif .. yaro hold ur horses..

      post thee shadi ke trend ke baaray main .. usko ignore kerkay aap log shuroo ho gaye ek ENTIRELY different mauzoo par ke kon ziyada pure hay .. http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

      wait till mods gets here and transfers this to the society and culture thread .. http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

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      [This message has been edited by confused (edited February 21, 2001).]
      Ba'Qalam-e-khud, deewaan'e-gs say baraah'e-raast, Jang Bahaadur Nawaab'e-Lucknow Shaan'e-Brampton Miyaan Shamsheer-ul-Faizy(H.R.H.H.Mister confused)

    9. #9
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      Yaar CONFUSED, that was a different post.

      This one is a different topic. Check back up top.

      TOPEE WALA - Thanks for pointing out the obvious but the item at hand still remains. I think the thread of the question is that why does everyone ASSUME Pakistan is so pure?

      Temptation is everywhere. Just because it's more in one place than the other, I think, is irrelevant. You can also argue that Rich Pakistani's have more access to such things more than poor Americans. or Vice Versa.

      Things that make you go hmmmm

      [This message has been edited by SHAHZAD612 (edited February 21, 2001).]

    10. #10
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      I think this topic can go on and on as it is purely a matter of proving who lived in a better environment. People coming from Pakistan would always think that their country is great people born or raised up in different country will think that they are better. It's like every1 likes the city where he is born.

      All I can say is that you will have to have a standard to measure where there is more corruption and all parameters should be defined before u start analysing as to which place is bad. For example, it is considered good in a western society that as long as u do bad things but don' hide it otherwise u are called a hypocrite. On the other hand, in the east norms are different as they say "eik to chori ooper say seena zori".

    11. #11
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      It is amzing that in my teens spend in Karachi after moving to UK and going back to Pakistan .....I HAVE NEVER FOUND SEX OR HOMEOSEXUALITY IN OPEN.
      If you say that see it at red light area or bazar hussan then it is different, At bucthers shop you will find meat not grocery similary you will find prostitution in red light area and in bazar hussan etc.

      However I know sex and homesexuality do happen but under the cover not in open. I think pakistani people here in western world expect that when they return from here to Pakistan it will be as it was 10 years ago. We must realise that inpakistan things also change with time.

      Unfortunately in our society because sex is taboo subject we dont discuss it openly and address the problems faced by an ordinary men/women. This is reason many men and women in pakistan go to Amil, Faqir etc to get their advice on the problems.

      In resolving these problems I think even government is helpless because they have tons of other problems to solve before they address things like that. I think unless we as nation start thinking about solving our problems we can not solve our problems.

    12. #12
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      Sex in my bones, sex in my blood, sex in my mind, sex all over me - infact I am a result of SEX!!!

      Can you deny it, if put on yourself?

      Illigitimate sex, is a curse. We can't stop it - We can only control our ownself. Places are not Good or Bad - People make them such - You think there's no prostitution in Mekkah? As that place is sooooooooooooooo *Holy* - In case you people believe such - Think again !!!

      I read some afsana of Manto (Can't remember the name) The summary is something like
      "People were against prostitution and they were fed up with it - So they decided to throw the Brothel outside the city - After some years - that brothel was again in the middle of the city"

      hehehehehehhehehehe

      Funny!!!!!

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      forgot to add something .....
      Pakistan may not be the best - No one is claiming it anyways - but surely, not the worst either.

      [This message has been edited by Pugla (edited February 21, 2001).]

    13. #13
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      I agree with BlaDaMunda007; it's up to the individual. In Pakistan, just like any other country, good and bad things exist simultaneously. It is up to the individual to come up with a bowl of cherries of his/her own taste.
      Life is only a dream.

    14. #14
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      Dude we have to get back to square one.

      Insaaniat - Please don't be so Naieve. IT IS OUT IN THE OPEN. Maybe you've never heard of it but ( I don't know why, because everyone knows) There is a place in Lahore called "Heera-Mundi" and ironically enough it is behind a Pakistani National Fixture - The Badshai Masjid !!!

      I don't care how crude people think the West is but I could assure you that there would never be a brothel, right behind a Masjid. Can you imagine, the guys who are doing "business" there as the Azan goes off. AsthukfurAllah. I know I, nor anyone else has the right to critisize but what's wrong is wrong.

      I don't know why my brother and law and everyone with roots to the motherland assume that there is nothing but purity. Even my parents want me to get enagaged to someone from back home because they believe that she is more "traditionally Pakistani" than anyone here in the US. And they have clearly stated that... no doubt about it.

      It just irks me to think what a farse my country has become in certain places. And I still think those who live outside are the ones who truly cherish it but at the same time because they don't live in it

      People have died to make this Dream (Pakistan) a reality but all those deaths go in vain. Ask the Muslims of India. They can appreciate not having a homeland.


    15. #15
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      Originally posted by SHAHZAD612:
      Dude we have to get back to square one.

      ..I don't care how crude people think the West is but I could assure you that there would never be a brothel, right behind a Masjid. Can you imagine, the guys who are doing "business" there as the Azan goes off. AsthukfurAllah. I know I, nor anyone else has the right to critisize but what's wrong is wrong. ....

      I thought people who come from Pakistan are ignorant of things but believe me it does happen in the west. You will have to come to more older Asian areas and you will find red light area closer to mosque. I am sure mosques were built later on.


    16. #16
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      I have been told this and that happen in that area of Pakistan but you really have to look for it to find if it's happening.

    17. #17
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      Khan Sahib says:
      "I thought people who come from Pakistan are ignorant of things but believe me it does happen in the west. You will have to come to more older Asian areas and you will find red light area closer to mosque. I am sure mosques were built later on."


      Common Khan Sahib, you really think they put up a brothel before a Mosque? And it doesn't matter when the brothels were put up., once Islam was introduced - such things should have been eradicated. Especially in the beginning of Islam is such countries.

      I know this is the oldest profession in the world but back to the root of my Thread is that Pakistan is just as corrupted in such matters if not worse.

      Let me present another side of this arguement. >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>>>&gt ; ---- Follow me on this one.

      Due to the situations in Pakistan (mainly due to government and economical situations) there are literally millions of Pakistani's trying to get out. Trying to make a better life for themselves (If you don't believe me - just look at the line that starts 5AM outside the American Embassy in Islamabad - EVERYDAY)
      The West is such a strong lure. Movies from the West, Media and no moreso the Internet are all external factors that effect Pakistani's. As a result, they will tend to emulate such behavior as they see .. in the Media - TV Shows, Movies and Internet.
      And just by it's nature, Islam is a very prohibitive religion. (because it's not followed through correctly) It's just human nature to want to do the things that we are most prohbited from doing.
      Again, I'm not just arguing based on a few brothels - The challenge for anyone who can defeat my arguement should also consider that at just about any Video store you can readily get pornography and alcohol is not too hard to come by if you have the right connections. All influences of the West that are duplicated in Pakistan.

      Funny thing is that my brother in law, himself told me that he had to go through this area to get to school. He's told me some of the horror stories there and what happens with women there.

      Go Figure?

    18. #18
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      [QUOTE]Originally posted by SHAHZAD612:

      But, while my stay in Islamabad, I have seen things that would put Americans to shame. There were people doing it out in the fields, there was open prostitution. And if there isn't unrestricted sex in Pakistan ... why do we have so much AIDS?


      Bheyee I have spent almost 18 years of my life in Rawalpindi and Islamabad, and never in those 18 years I saw people doing it out in the fields! Prostitution isnt also open in those cities baaqi kaa mujhay patah nahi and is extremely hush hush as they have extreme penalties for such acts. Bheyee Islamabad main Larkaa Larki ikhatay agar motorcycle parr jaa rahay ho to Police roke leti hay. Doing it in the fields to dur ki baat hay.

      And by the way the number of HIV positive cases in Pakistan and people infected by Aids is one the lowest numbers in the world compared to neighbouring countries such as India and less populalted countries like Nepal!

      If you read the facts most Aids infected cases in Pakistan if through sexual intercourse if not from blood transfusion are from our worker class people working in the middle east countries who have had sexual intercourse with prostitutes usually from Central Asian States or from Sodomy.



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