Urdu Language Destroying Pakistan! - Page 10

wondergurl · Oct 15th, 2008, 03:07 PM

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Originally Posted by Marjawa

^ So I am wunderwoman now?

respectfully, its 'wondergurl' not 'wunderwoman'

Spock · Oct 15th, 2008, 03:54 PM

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Originally Posted by wondergurl

so let me get this straight, u think i got a new nick JUST to continue pointlessly arguing with u here, man what an ego...now you are really losing it...if i have something to say i'll say it with my one and ONLY nick...and i have said plenty.

Hold on to your knicks, that wasnt for you, that was addressed to marjawaan, why are you getting so emotional? I dont think you are marjawan, but he is a multinicker.

Quote:

seriously dude, let it go, u are the ONLY one carrying on with this one-sided argument. i do not see anyone else sharing your views.

Nope, I suggest you reread the thread, plenty of people voiced their support for what I said, and they have done so with great arguments, and not just based on the fact that their dadajaans spoke Urdu. Those that are afraid to give rights to other Pakistanis are the ones who will result in the disintegration of this country. No one is forcing you to change your native language, if you're an Urdu speaker fine that's good, don't force people into it or look down upon their language. Let them speak the language of their ancestors, and stop calling them unpatriotic or enemies.

Spock · Oct 15th, 2008, 04:06 PM

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Originally Posted by Marjawa

Btw, to "bengalis" army = punjabis!

Maybe thats how you you feel.

wondergurl · Oct 15th, 2008, 05:24 PM

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Originally Posted by Spock

The percentage of Pakistan that speaks Urdu is not even in double digits...the fact of the matter is,not even 10% of the people use our national language.

and i quoted Encarta

wondergurl · Oct 15th, 2008, 05:25 PM

^^

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Originally Posted by wondergurl

More than 75 percent of Pakistanis can speak and understand Urdu. In urban areas about 95 percent of the people communicate in Urdu. [/SIZE]

wondergurl · Oct 15th, 2008, 05:36 PM

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Originally Posted by Spock

The People of Punjab, like the people of Sindh, Baluchistan, or NWFP will continue to speak their own language - the language of their ancestors, no one can force them to change....

yes a valid point, and no one is forcing them to change, consensus based facts are posted below

wondergurl · Oct 15th, 2008, 05:36 PM

^^

Encyclopedia Article

Most Pakistanis speak at least two languages. A large segment of the population is trilingual, speaking English, Urdu, and an ethnic-based regional language. Punjabi, Pashto, Sindhi, Baluchi, and Brahui are the major regional languages. These languages have many regional dialects, including Saraiki, a widely spoken dialect of Punjabi. Regional languages are recognized as a potent force because language and ethnic identity are closely interrelated; even the national census categorizes groups according to their language, rather than their ethnicity.

wondergurl · Oct 15th, 2008, 05:41 PM

From the facts stated above it is obviuos that Urdu has not taken the place of ethnic languages, they are still spoken widely and commonly. going back to the topic of the thread, my question is HOW exactly is Urdu destroying Pakistan??? its a very bold statement and there should be facts to back it up.

Spock · Oct 15th, 2008, 06:37 PM

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Originally Posted by wondergurl

yes a valid point, and no one is forcing them to change, consensus based facts are posted below

Consensus? Since when we did we have a consensus in Pakistan about the language issue?

Spock · Oct 15th, 2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wondergurl

^^

Encyclopedia Article

Most Pakistanis speak at least two languages. A large segment of the population is trilingual, speaking English, Urdu, and an ethnic-based regional language. Punjabi, Pashto, Sindhi, Baluchi, and Brahui are the major regional languages. These languages have many regional dialects, including Saraiki, a widely spoken dialect of Punjabi. Regional languages are recognized as a potent force because language and ethnic identity are closely interrelated; even the national census categorizes groups according to their language, rather than their ethnicity.

Ah, I see you meant 'census' and not 'consensus', keep in mind they are two different things.

So now that you agree a large part of Pakistan speaks languages other than Urdu, adding these languages to the official stature of the province should be considered right? You shouldnt have any objections I hope?

To answer your last part of the post, I am not stating Urdu is destroying Pakistan; we are destroying Pakistan, infact already have. We need to grant more provincial autonomy and make the peoople feel being Pakistani does not mean they will be forced to do adopt alien cultures and traditions. I am not saying we should take Urdu away from people, I am saying we should give official status to the languages they speak. I hope we are in agreement with that.

Marjawa · Oct 15th, 2008, 07:05 PM

Sindhi is already official language in sindh but i dunno about other provinces? Wasn't shahbaz or was it pervez elahi promoting punjabi in punjab and held a WOrld Punjabi Congress [like WSI] some years back? I am surprised that if there is this big "saazish" then how come many common folk interviewed by private tvs in punjab can't speak urdu?

Spock · Oct 15th, 2008, 07:20 PM

^ Indeed, or atleast was, and I believe a long time ago Sindhi was taught in Sindh schools. As for Shahbaz Sharif, he was in exile up until last year. Chaudhry Elahi, the less said the better. What is this saazish you are talking about? I dont think there were any sazishes, but many mistakes.

Marjawa · Oct 15th, 2008, 07:22 PM

Sindhi is taught today in all of the schools in Sindh including karachi. I don't think even private schools get away with that [maybe A or O levels do].

wondergurl · Oct 15th, 2008, 09:11 PM

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Originally Posted by Spock

We imposed a language that less than 3% of the population knew, and as a result, we have one lost province, hardly any provincial harmony whatsoever, a bad education system and many many unhappy people. We have also pretty much destroyed our native and ancient languages in the process, along with our culture.

seems like you are blaming Urdu for a lot of general dissarray in the country.

wondergurl · Oct 15th, 2008, 09:12 PM

another example:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

...our national unity has always been weak and Urdu is one of the reasons....

wondergurl · Oct 15th, 2008, 09:18 PM

i am not going to keep arguing for the sake of arguing, u don't agree with me, thats ok. so its over n out

Spock · Oct 15th, 2008, 10:54 PM

Yes, it has weakened the unity Wondergirl, that happens when you have a language that hardly 8% of the population can relate to, culturally and with identity. We made it the national language ages ago, we made this mistake, the students who died, the province that parted ways, the disharmony we have, that wasnt because of a bunch of words, letters and a way of saying things, it was becuase of our attitude. We can live with those mistakes, but the key is to learn from them. We need to preserve our culture and identity and give recognition to these 'other' languages that are looked down on. You mentioned that these languages are still spoken and arent under threat. I disagree, and present myself as an example. My parents and other elders speak fluent Punjabi and converse with each other in Punjabi. However, I dont, and grew up speaking Urdu and English. Uptil I was 15, I used to look down on Punjabi, because of the education I received and used to think of it as an inferior language, and I see that attitude prevalent in some of my friends here in this very thread.

Spock · Oct 15th, 2008, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marjawa

Sindhi is taught today in all of the schools in Sindh including karachi. I don't think even private schools get away with that [maybe A or O levels do].

Yes, there is no Sindhi for O/A Level students, and I doubt its there in the local curr. anymore, or is optional. Urdu was made mandatory for Olevels when it was introduced but trust me, nowadays people opt out of it. In Alevels, its strictly optional and hardly anyone takes it. When I took my Olevels, it was required and the only way way you could get away with it was proving that you are a foriegner, and they'd let you take easy Urdu. That is not the case anymore. Just like how a decade or two ago people were giving preference to Urdu over Sindhi, now they are giving preference to English over Urdu, again due to some mistakes we made.

thejoke · Oct 16th, 2008, 08:47 AM

If anyone ever listened to what nationalists and provincialists considerto be the MAIN problems in pakistan and they will say

1. nwfp produces electricty of which very little is used by nwfp and most by punjab

2. balochistan produces gas of which it sees little yet it can be pumped 1800km across to Sialkot

3. sindh claims karachi is earning the most most money for pakistan yet very little spent on it and that water is being diverted from sindh by canals and waterways built in punjab for the benefit of punjab. over the last 100 years sindh is seeing increasing desertification and punjab was thorn forest yet now its green.

We can change the languages yet we still have the problem of resource distribution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

Yes, it has weakened the unity Wondergirl, that happens when you have a language that hardly 8% of the population can relate to, culturally and with identity. We made it the national language ages ago, we made this mistake, the students who died, the province that parted ways, the disharmony we have, that wasnt because of a bunch of words, letters and a way of saying things, it was becuase of our attitude. We can live with those mistakes, but the key is to learn from them. We need to preserve our culture and identity and give recognition to these 'other' languages that are looked down on. You mentioned that these languages are still spoken and arent under threat. I disagree, and present myself as an example. My parents and other elders speak fluent Punjabi and converse with each other in Punjabi. However, I dont, and grew up speaking Urdu and English. Uptil I was 15, I used to look down on Punjabi, because of the education I received and used to think of it as an inferior language, and I see that attitude prevalent in some of my friends here in this very thread.

thejoke · Oct 16th, 2008, 09:03 AM

Not all zilahs/tehsils speak one particular language.

Some are multi lingual.

What language would the people of Peshawar city learn - Pashtu or Hindko?

In Mansera would it be pashtu or hindko?

In quetta city would it be balochi pashtu farsi brohi ?

in Hunza would it burusshaki or wakhi?

in chitralwould they have the choice tolearn their own kho language or pashtu be enforced on them?

in multan would punjabi be taught or seraiki?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

Right now, all of them face the axe, so something is better than nothing. Plus, we can always go by districts when making the choice on what language to introduce into the curriculum and the district level govt. Theres a reason why we have the zilah/tahsil boundaries.