Urdu Language Destroying Pakistan! - Page 3

wondergurl · Oct 1st, 2008, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mostar95

If Pakistan would have not come into existence, still Urdu or Hindi would have been the common language of the present Pakistan.

Something tells me that urdu would have been slowly and surely eradicated in that scenario, like it is in India. Hindi has been shaped into a slang or 'tapori' language, while Urdu in Pakistan still retains its shaistagi. I have many Indian Muslim friends and their 'version' of urdu is completely different from mine, Muslims in India have somewhat combined the two to form a slang. Heavens forbid.

janab-e-ali · Oct 1st, 2008, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wondergurl

Something tells me that urdu would have been slowly and surely eradicated in that scenario, like it is in India. Hindi has been shaped into a slang or 'tapori' language, while Urdu in Pakistan still retains its shaistagi. I have many Indian Muslim friends and their 'version' of urdu is completely different from mine, Muslims in India have somewhat combined the two to form a slang. Heavens forbid.

A silly characterization, especially when one considers the fact that Urdu isn't native to Pakistan at all, and there are in fact many times more primary Urdu speakers in India than in Pakistan. As far as the issue of the "blending" of Urdu and Hindi is concerned...I would argue that you'll rarely hear Urdu being spoken with proper grammar outside of Karachi. The Urdu I've heard being spoken by Pakistani Punjabis is filled with Punjabi words and grammatical constructs.

Urdu may enjoy far more official patronage in Pakistan, but I hardly think its fair to say it's a dying language in its native lands.

Aliyish · Oct 1st, 2008, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janab-e-ali

A silly characterization, especially when one considers the fact that Urdu isn't native to Pakistan at all, and there are in fact many times more primary Urdu speakers in India than in Pakistan. ..

Just wondering how many out of them can read Urdu as well ....

None of my indian muslim friends can ....

Spock · Oct 1st, 2008, 11:14 AM

theJoke, you might wanna read up on this:

Bengali Language Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Spock · Oct 1st, 2008, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hareem01

Are you joking? Where did I say "akhbar" and "beach"?

TLK · Oct 1st, 2008, 01:46 PM

^^ Buchchoo Lusi ka mazaaq uRaa'o gay to eik jootaa ghoomta hoo'ao florida se aa'ai gaa aur eik MN se, aur patakh se sar pe lagay gaa

maafi maango Lusi baji se forun

janab-e-ali · Oct 2nd, 2008, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliyish

Just wondering how many out of them can read Urdu as well ....

None of my indian muslim friends can ....

In Kashmir, virtually every literate person, Muslim or otherwise, knows how to read Urdu script.

I don't know if there's any data on Urdu literacy, but I suppose we could roughly estimate it by multiplying the number of primary Urdu speakers by the Muslim literacy rate.

58 million Urdu speakers * 60% literate = 34.8 million literate primary Urdu speakers in India
vs
11.5 million Urdu speakers * 54% literate = 6.2 million literate primary Urdu speakers in Pakistan

Lusi · Oct 2nd, 2008, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLK

^^ Buchchoo Lusi ka mazaaq uRaa'o gay to eik jootaa ghoomta hoo'ao florida se aa'ai gaa aur eik MN se, aur patakh se sar pe lagay gaa

maafi maango Lusi baji se forun

Lolz Yes! or spockie gets a warning

abdelyuuki · Oct 2nd, 2008, 06:06 PM

Urdu is a nice language, in my opinion Punjabi people should speak it more and stop assuming that all other ethnic groups understand Punjabi. It sounds so crude and rough.

That was the point of Urdu in Pakiland I thought, to have a common language of communication for all the ethnic groups?

Spock · Oct 2nd, 2008, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abdelyuuki

Urdu is a nice language, in my opinion Punjabi people should speak it more and stop assuming that all other ethnic groups understand Punjabi. It sounds so crude and rough.

So they should give up on their language because you think it sounds crude and rough. I am sure non-Urdu speakers feel the same way about Urdu too. And what advice do you have to give to Sindhi, Baluchi, Pushto speakers, oh great one.

The People of Punjab, like the people of Sindh, Baluchistan, or NWFP will continue to speak their own language - the language of their ancestors, no one can force them to change. Aap ney urdu boolni hai tu bolain, no ones stopping you.

TLK · Oct 2nd, 2008, 06:40 PM

Spock, abdel did not say that Panjabis should stop speaking panjabis, he is saying that when talking to other ethinic people, they should use a more common language ..

he does have a point here, dont you think

abdelyuuki · Oct 2nd, 2008, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

So they should give up on their language because you think it sounds crude and rough. I am sure non-Urdu speakers feel the same way about Urdu too. And what advice do you have to give to Sindhi, Baluchi, Pushto speakers, oh great one.

The People of Punjab, like the people of Sindh, Baluchistan, or NWFP will continue to speak their own language - the language of their ancestors, no one can force them to change. Aap ney urdu boolni hai tu bolain, no ones stopping you.

Oh dear lord, You're a very silly person aren't you. Utterly distorting the context of my post just to be able to have a go. You've assumed too many things in your reply for me to even bother addressing.

I'm not a native urdu speaker, my mother tongue is koshur (which is very different to urdu), and my urdu is not that great. If you read the post again, I was stating my 'opinion' which I am entitled to, I did not issue any advice, nor do I wish to. If you also look at the punctuation used in my previous post, you will notice a 'full stop' preceding the statement 'It sounds so rough and crude' indicating that it was a statement on its own, and not linked to the other sentences and thus can not be associated to be taken as 'reasoning' of the previous sentence.

Punjabis are the largest ethnic group in Pakistan, so it is understandable, but in my opinion more effort wouldn't hurt.

You totally pulled a Fox news on that one.

abdelyuuki · Oct 2nd, 2008, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLK

Spock, abdel did not say that Panjabis should stop speaking panjabis, he is saying that when talking to other ethinic people, they should use a more common language ..

he does have a point here, dont you think

That is exactly what I meant.

Thank you, and God bless you!

Let Uz Chat · Oct 2nd, 2008, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hareem01

Are you joking? Where did I say "akhbar" and "beach"?

Hareem if only you realised how funny you are.

Personally speaking, I'd rather my future generation spoke Urdu than Panjabi (with respect to the Punjabi's) but Urdu zabaan has more respect in it.

thejoke · Oct 2nd, 2008, 07:47 PM

That article is irrelevant. Its about Bangladesh - we are talking about modern day Pakistan - things are very different.

You still have not given me an idea on what role should languages play....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

theJoke, you might wanna read up on this:

Bengali Language Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Spock · Oct 2nd, 2008, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLK

Spock, abdel did not say that Panjabis should stop speaking panjabis, he is saying that when talking to other ethinic people, they should use a more common language ..

he does have a point here, dont you think

So Punjabis speak to sindhis, and Baluchis in Punjabi?

When did that happen?

Ok so what you're saying is, for example, Punjabi might sound crude and rough to a Baluchi, but Urdu might not?? I dont think thats the case. Its about time we learn to respect all these regional languages, and stop urging people to change their languages, because they dont want to and it creates a bad feeling inside.

Spock · Oct 2nd, 2008, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abdelyuuki

Oh dear lord, You're a very silly person aren't you. Utterly distorting the context of my post just to be able to have a go. You've assumed too many things in your reply for me to even bother addressing.

I'm not a native urdu speaker, my mother tongue is koshur (which is very different to urdu), and my urdu is not that great. If you read the post again, I was stating my 'opinion' which I am entitled to, I did not issue any advice, nor do I wish to. If you also look at the punctuation used in my previous post, you will notice a 'full stop' preceding the statement 'It sounds so rough and crude' indicating that it was a statement on its own, and not linked to the other sentences and thus can not be associated to be taken as 'reasoning' of the previous sentence.

Punjabis are the largest ethnic group in Pakistan, so it is understandable, but in my opinion more effort wouldn't hurt.

You totally pulled a Fox news on that one.

lol it doesnt matter what your native language is buddy so no need to give long explanations. You said what you said in that previous post, no ifs and buts, and if you still feel you were being misperceived, say it again. Until then, lets just assume:

- Punjabis, like sindhis, baluchis, sarhadis, will continue speak their own language, or whatever they want to

- Punjabi is not crude or rough, spoken in any way whatsoever or to anyone whatsoever, just like the other regional languages of Pakistan, as well as Urdu.

Spock · Oct 2nd, 2008, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejoke

That article is irrelevant. Its about Bangladesh - we are talking about modern day Pakistan - things are very different.

You still have not given me an idea on what role should languages play....

lol you are forgetting, it was forcing Urdu onto Bengalis that started Bengali freedom movement. You can deny it all you want, or look over it. Btw, Bengalis celeberate that day, Feb 21st, when West Pakistan killed its people who stood up for their own language, as a national holiday too, so its not irrelevent. That movement made the Awami National Party into the party that spearheaded separation. We're not just talking modern day Pakistan, read the first post again. All of this, after you said anyone who speaks their own language is an enemy of Pakistan, or against the creation of Pakistan. And yes, unless we learn from the mistakes we make, theres going to be 3-4 more bangladeshes.

Quote:

In 1948, the Government of Pakistan ordained Urdu as the sole national language, sparking extensive protests among the Bengali-speaking majority of East Pakistan. Facing rising sectarian tensions and mass discontent with the new law, the government outlawed public meetings and rallies. The students of the University of Dhaka and other political activists defied the law and organised a protest on 21 February 1952. The movement reached its climax when police killed student demonstrators on that day. The deaths provoked widespread civil unrest led by the Awami Muslim League, later renamed the Awami League. After years of conflict, the central government relented and granted official status to the Bengali language in 1956. In 2000, UNESCO declared 21 February International Mother Language Day for the whole world to celebrate[1], in tribute to the Language Movement and the ethno-linguistic rights of people around the world.
The Language Movement catalysed the assertion of Bengali national identity in Pakistan, and became a forerunner to Bengali nationalist movements, including the 6-point movement and subsequently the Bangladesh Liberation War in 1971. In Bangladesh, 21 February is observed as Language Movement Day, a national holiday. The Shaheed Minar monument was constructed near Dhaka Medical College in memory of the movement and its victims.In 1948, the Government of Pakistan ordained Urdu as the sole national language, sparking extensive protests among the Bengali-speaking majority of East Pakistan. Facing rising sectarian tensions and mass discontent with the new law, the government outlawed public meetings and rallies. The students of the University of Dhaka and other political activists defied the law and organised a protest on 21 February 1952. The movement reached its climax when police killed student demonstrators on that day. The deaths provoked widespread civil unrest led by the Awami Muslim League, later renamed the Awami League. After years of conflict, the central government relented and granted official status to the Bengali language in 1956. In 2000, UNESCO declared 21 February International Mother Language Day for the whole world to celebrate[1], in tribute to the Language Movement and the ethno-linguistic rights of people around the world.
The Language Movement catalysed the assertion of Bengali national identity in Pakistan, and became a forerunner to Bengali nationalist movements, including the 6-point movement and subsequently the Bangladesh Liberation War in 1971. In Bangladesh, 21 February is observed as Language Movement Day, a national holiday. The Shaheed Minar monument was constructed near Dhaka Medical College in memory of the movement and its victims.

abdelyuuki · Oct 2nd, 2008, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

So Punjabis speak to sindhis, and Baluchis in Punjabi?

Even if they did, which doesnt make sense, its their choice, and they are entitled to whatever they want to speak, no outside can come and change that.

:/ Again, you don't seem to be grasping my point. A lot of Punjabis speak Punjabi with other ethnic groups, I don't see why you're finding that so hard to believe? I'm talking about common interactions here, i.e. going to Lahore, Gujarat, Jhelum etc and asking for directions etc in urdu, replies will be in Punjabi majority of the time. Heck even going to the Pakistani consulate here, they speak Punjabi/Mirpuri and English but thats somewhat irrelevant.

I'm Not talking about a conversation with a doctor/lawyer etc, talking about common folks here (who are the majority of Pakistan). In Peshwar, people dont reply in Pashto when you ask for direction in urdu. It is an observation that I've made from my visits to Pakistan, no need to go all pc on it.

And no one is making them or suggesting them to change it, its just common courtesy, given the fact that its the national lingo.

abdelyuuki · Oct 2nd, 2008, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

So Punjabis speak to sindhis, and Baluchis in Punjabi?

When did that happen?

Ok so what you're saying is, for example, Punjabi might sound crude and rough to a Baluchi, but Urdu might not?? I dont think thats the case. Its about time we learn to respect all these regional languages, and stop urging people to change their languages, because they dont want to and it creates a bad feeling inside.

when the heck did I say that they should change their languages? I just said Punjabi people need to make more of an effort with urdu towards non-punjabis, tis all.

And yes Punjabi sounds as horrible as German to me, big flipping deal, stop getting so defensive. It's just my opinion, some might agree, others might not give a rats ass, I don't care.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

lol it doesnt matter what your native language is buddy so no need to give long explanations. You said what you said in that previous post, no ifs and buts, and if you still feel you were being misperceived, say it again. Until then, lets just assume:

- Punjabis, like sindhis, baluchis, sarhadis, will continue speak their own language, or whatever they want to

- Punjabi is not crude or rough, spoken in any way whatsoever or to anyone whatsoever, just like the other regional languages of Pakistan, as well as Urdu.

Ah darn, you edited it from 'no one cares about your..¨ to a more politer sentence before I could quote it.

They all should continue to speak their own languages, no one is arguing about that.