Urdu Language Destroying Pakistan! - Page 7

wondergurl · Oct 10th, 2008, 09:47 PM

Now i'm sure some ppl will continue arguing for the sake of arguing

but these are consensus based FACTS.

Aliyish · Oct 10th, 2008, 09:50 PM

Urdu hai Jis ka Naaam humhi JanTay hain DaaGh

Spock · Oct 10th, 2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wondergurl

As usual everything comes down to ethnic differences. i'm convinced the 'point' of this thread is not love lost for our native langauges but politically driven. Lets look at some facts for a change instead of using emotions to back up arguments. [/SIZE]

Yes, I am sure this is what the Bengalis thought when they were forced to accept Urdu. Maybe in 1952, they protested not because of their love for their own language, but to part ways right?

Also did you ever wonder, if Persian or Arabic were the national languages, your encyclopedia would have the same exact article there, just replace urdu by persian or arabic. Doesnt mean diddly squat. People speak the national language because they have been forced to do so for the last 60 years.

Check out the excerpt below. Also, why are you so afraid if we have all these wonderful languages in addition to the wonderful urdu as the official provincial languages? People still speak Hindi in India dont they? If you are convinced everyone speaks Urdu, you have nothinig to worry about then.

Pakistan - Linguistic and Ethnic Groups

Nearly half of all Pakistanis (48 percent) speak Punjabi. The next most commonly spoken language is Sindhi (12 percent), followed by the Punjabi variant Siraiki (10 percent) This is for you thejoke, Pakhtu or Pashto (8 percent), Balochi (3 percent), Hindko (2 percent), and Brahui (1 percent). Native speakers of other languages, including English, Burushaski, and various other tongues account for 8 percent.
Although Urdu is the official national language, it is spoken as a native tongue by only 8 percent of the population.

Spock · Oct 10th, 2008, 10:30 PM

Another thing I just remembered, something I often see here on GS. Proponents of the Indo-Pak unifiication also use Urdu to their advantage, when they claim we share the same culture and borrowed a language from them to use as our sole national language. If we had 5-6 official languages, in addition to Urdu, we could shut them up.

abdelyuuki · Oct 11th, 2008, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

Another thing I just remembered, something I often see here on GS. Proponents of the Indo-Pak unifiication also use Urdu to their advantage, when they claim we share the same culture and borrowed a language from them to use as our sole national language. If we had 5-6 official languages, in addition to Urdu, we could shut them up.

India has 22 official languages, 19 of which have nothing to do with Pakistan!

thejoke · Oct 11th, 2008, 07:09 AM

Siraiki is not a Punjabi variant and there is no way in the world that only 9% of Pakistan speak Seraiki.

Seraiki is spoken as a dominant language or widely spoken in Multan, D G Khan, Bahawalpur, Bahawalngar,. R Y Khan, Rajanpur, Bhakkar, Mianwali, Khushab and with good numbers also in northern sindh, loralai and neighbouring balochistan, d i khan, jhang, sargohda, toba tek singh, vihari, ..basically the southern punjab and central punjab,south western punjab and neighbouring quarters of nwfp balochistan and sindh.
in fact thereis a huge chance that seraiki is advancing into balochistan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

Yes, I am sure this is what the Bengalis thought when they were forced to accept Urdu. Maybe in 1952, they protested not because of their love for their own language, but to part ways right?

Also did you ever wonder, if Persian or Arabic were the national languages, your encyclopedia would have the same exact article there, just replace urdu by persian or arabic. Doesnt mean diddly squat. People speak the national language because they have been forced to do so for the last 60 years.

Check out the excerpt below. Also, why are you so afraid if we have all these wonderful languages in addition to the wonderful urdu as the official provincial languages? People still speak Hindi in India dont they? If you are convinced everyone speaks Urdu, you have nothinig to worry about then.

Pakistan - Linguistic and Ethnic Groups

Nearly half of all Pakistanis (48 percent) speak Punjabi. The next most commonly spoken language is Sindhi (12 percent), followed by the Punjabi variant Siraiki (10 percent) This is for you thejoke, Pakhtu or Pashto (8 percent), Balochi (3 percent), Hindko (2 percent), and Brahui (1 percent). Native speakers of other languages, including English, Burushaski, and various other tongues account for 8 percent.
Although Urdu is the official national language, it is spoken as a native tongue by only 8 percent of the population.

thejoke · Oct 11th, 2008, 07:26 AM

Im from Punjab before you say anything else.

You have a few non-Punjabis in power - WOW - most of these names mentionned do nothing for their own people.

If it was solely Balochistan accusing Punjab then I would be skeptical but then you have NWFP and sindh - both sindhis and muhajirs from sindh agree on punjabs domination.

I dot look into a leaders full etnic origins - Iwould accept a good Hindu leader over a bad Muslim one - btw i thought shortcuz aziz was from sialkot originally?

In waziristan it is Punjabi army soldiers that they naturally see as a Threat. Deobandis and Whabbis love Urdu and eevrything they learn is in urdu. You perfectly well know that the whole waziristan issue is not a language one - LOL - try find another more solid argument to back up what you say - btw im prettymuch sure that extremists in Waziristan who chop peoples heads off would be accustomed to speaking in urdu because of the multi-ethnic origins of the militants. Their maybe more pashtuns in them but their are plenty of arabs, uzbeks, punjabis, urdu speakers and others.

pashtuns dont have a problem with urdu speakers - they have a problem with the MQM. There are many pashtuns in karachi who have started using urdu more and they did it through their own will. urdu is used quite heavily in peshawar as some hindko speakers dislike speakign in pashtu because of the whole pakhtunkhwa renaming thing. Pashtun in quetta are thankful for urdu - they would hate to have to learn balochi. Theres nothing wrong with balochi but its not a language you can speak with a punjabi or a sindhi whilst urdu is.

You actually even cant be bothered to outline how the languages wil play roles within the life of pakistan. Thats why your argument is not a good one.
You cant even think of things like mother tongues should be taught in schools but keep crying on urdu being imposed lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

Firstly, the fact that you brought in the MQM here just shows your desperation. You say I hate the MQM fine, I say you hate Punjabiz, end of story.

There beef was over the last decade was with a non-Punjabi moronic dictator And care to tell me how this was a Punjabi establishment over the last 10 years? Is Asif Ali Zardari a punjabi? Is Shortcut Aziz a Punjabi? I am not giving this argument a political touch, you are, only because you have nothing to back your theory of imposing Urdu on everyone.

Pashtuns arent fond of Urdu, and most of the ones up north have already succesfully defied the write of the Govt. Naturally, they arent fond of urdu speakers. These days, in places like Waziristan they hunt down Urdu speakers, and chop their heads off because they think they are Government officials and outsiders. If NWFP becomes a country of its own, guess what, Urdu wont be their 'national' language. Also, you brought your MQM into this discussion. MQM has nothing to do with Urdu, infact the degenerates can barely speak it properly. Have you heard General Musharraf (their spiritual leader) and Altaf speak Urdu?

Guess what, they speak their own language better! this is why 90% of the country speaks their own language, and its not Urdu

As for the rest of strories, again my support for languages is not just limited to 3-4 languages. If we have more languages that a larger part of Pakistan speaks, then so be it, introduce them into the curriculam, develop them, and preserve/protect them.

thejoke · Oct 11th, 2008, 07:30 AM

Spock you made a comment which I saw last night(uk time) about pashtuns spit at urdu - i cant find that now - im glad you edited that comment as pashtun intelectuals on one hand argue for their linguistic rights yet you accuse them of behaving derogatory to another.

abdelyuuki · Oct 11th, 2008, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejoke

Siraiki is not a Punjabi variant and there is no way in the world that only 9% of Pakistan speak Seraiki.
.

Siraiki is a Punjabi variant, as concluded by linguistic scholars. It is also known as 'Southern Punjabi'. It comes under West Punjabi dialects (Lahnda) which include :

* Northern Hindko
* Southern Hindko
* Jakati
* Khetrani
* Mirpur Punjabi
* Siraiki

And it is only 8.15% of Pakistan that speaks Siraiki : ¨13,843,106 in Pakistan (2000 WCD). Population total all countries: 13,863,106.¨

http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=skr

Spock · Oct 11th, 2008, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejoke

Spock you made a comment which I saw last night(uk time) about pashtuns spit at urdu - i cant find that now - im glad you edited that comment as pashtun intelectuals on one hand argue for their linguistic rights yet you accuse them of behaving derogatory to another.

They have every right to choose their own language over Urdu.

Spock · Oct 11th, 2008, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejoke

Siraiki is not a Punjabi variant and there is no way in the world that only 9% of Pakistan speak Seraiki.

Unfortunately, every authority disagrees with you. 55% of the people speak Punjabi, and about 8-10% speak Saraiki, call it a variant or not, so your claim about more Saraiki being spoken more than Punjabi is not just absurd, its laughable. Everyone knows this.

wondergurl · Oct 11th, 2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

Another thing I just remembered, something I often see here on GS. Proponents of the Indo-Pak unifiication also use Urdu to their advantage, when they claim we share the same culture and borrowed a language from them to use as our sole national language. If we had 5-6 official languages, in addition to Urdu, we could shut them up.

as usual, all emotion and no logic

wondergurl · Oct 11th, 2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abdelyuuki

India has 22 official languages, 19 of which have nothing to do with Pakistan!

now thats logic.

Spock · Oct 12th, 2008, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wondergurl

as usual, all emotion and no logic

Whats so emotional about it? It is logical, If we are to have a seperate culture, to distiguish ourselves as different, we need to preserve and recognize our indeginous languages, that have nothing to do with India.

You are just afraid that the Urdu speaking people would loose their prominance if the provinces are given their due rights. This is hardly patriotism.

Spock · Oct 12th, 2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wondergurl

now thats logic.

I hope you are smart enough to understand to understand that I am not implying Pakistan should have 22 of the same languages India speaks, which I have a feeling because of your lack of familiarity with the subject.

If India can grant official status to 22 languages, including Urdu, Hindi and the languages of their provinces, so can we, because this way you keep the people of these provinces, who speak their own native language happy. This way, we will strengthen all of Pakistan, and not just the Urdu speaking elite.

thejoke · Oct 13th, 2008, 06:56 PM

So lets make all pakistans languages national languages - but how does that come into practise?

We can state them on paper to be national languages but whats their role?

Look at Afghanistan - the majority speaks pashtu - somewhere between 38-70% depends on whichcourse you believe. I believe 50-65% is better. the remaning mostly speak persian. Other languages spoken balochi, uzbeki, turkmen, hazaragee - dialect of persian, kohistani.

Both pashtu and persian are both national and official languages BUT :-

1. most pashtuns can speak persian yet the persians cant speak pashtu as good

2. karzai or other important people address mixed crowds of people in persian over pashtu

3. where theres 50% persian speakers and 50% pashtu speakers - persian is the language which bridges the ethnic groups.

4. most tv media outoput is in persian

5. the elite speak persian

in afghanistan pashtu is a paper official language and in practise its just a regional language.

how would languages such as chitrali, shina, wakhi, brohi expressthemselves as national languages?

Spock · Oct 13th, 2008, 08:31 PM

So now you are quoting examples of other countries? I already did that, India has over 20 official languages with a working implementation. Please give examples of succesful countries, not Afghanistan. btw, all the farsiwans that I know and have come across can speak Pashtu rather well.

abdelyuuki · Oct 13th, 2008, 09:29 PM

^ only ethnic Pakhtuns or Tajiks living in majority Pakhtun areas can speak Pashtu. Everyone speaks Dari though, it is the medium of learning in schools too. You wont find many Hazaras speaking or understanding Pashtu, yet they all speak fluent Dari and most can speak hazargi too.

Anyway you both keep switching between 'official' and 'national'... Burushaski, khowar, Pashto,Balochi etc should be made 'OFFICIAL' languages, NOT 'NATIONAL'. Urdu should remain as the 'NATIONAL' language. However, designating the indigenous languages 'OFFICIAL' status will raise their awareness and prevent them from going extinct, which is or at least should be the main point here....

yes ? no?

Spock · Oct 13th, 2008, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abdelyuuki;6091769

Anyway you both keep switching between 'official' and 'national'... Burushaski, khowar, Pashto,Balochi etc should be made 'OFFICIAL' languages, NOT 'NATIONAL'. Urdu should remain as the 'NATIONAL' language. [B

However, designating the indigenous languages 'OFFICIAL' status will raise their awareness and prevent them from going extinct, which is or at least should be the main point here.... [/b]

yes ? no?

Yooki, your last sentence makes the point, BUT in my context

I am not in favor of a single sole national language, there should be atleast 6 official languages, giving due consideration to the four main provincial languages, and in addition to that, Urdu and English. Urdu can be used in the center, by the Govt and should be taught in all four provinces, along with the the respective provincial language of that particular province. Once we get this system going, yes these languages wont go extinct, and then maybe we can worry about the other less spoken languages. We have to start somewhere.

janab-e-ali · Oct 13th, 2008, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

I am not in favor of a single sole national language, there should be atleast 6 official languages, giving due consideration to the four main provincial languages, and in addition to that, Urdu and English. Urdu can be used in the center, by the Govt and should be taught in all four provinces, along with the the respective provincial language of that particular province. Once we get this system going, yes these languages wont go extinct, and then maybe we can worry about the other less spoken languages. We have to start somewhere.

I thought you wanted to ape the Indian system?

The Indian constitution recognizes Hindi in Devanagiri script as India's sole national language, with provisions for the use of English as an ancillary official language. The 22 regional languages you speak of are only given the status of "scheduled languages" at the federal level...and quite a few of those languages receive very little actual support from the federal government.