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Old Jun 30th, 2009, 08:13 AM   #21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by fayax View Post
Tower of Babel.
Sorry to sound like a cynic, but nothing in the Quranic verses that you posted proves that that's how languages originated. Secondly, the tower that Pharoah ordered Haman to build, where does the text of Quran itself mention that it was the tower of Babil?

Thirdly, the story of the two angels in the babil is a separate 'qisa'. Different times, different place. Please remember the link between the angels and Solomon, and then think how can that be one and the same as the tower ordered by Pharoah...who belonged to a different era, a different country. Secondly, the Quran only mentions that Pharoah said this to Haman, it is silent about whether the tower was actually built, what was its fate if built etc.






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Old Jun 30th, 2009, 09:30 AM   #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Falcon Of Kashmir View Post
Sorry to sound like a cynic, but nothing in the Quranic verses that you posted proves that that's how languages originated. Secondly, the tower that Pharoah ordered Haman to build, where does the text of Quran itself mention that it was the tower of Babil?
Not entirely true, that it does not say "thats how the languages orginated" but Quran does say that Haman of Pharaoh was asked to built a tower. Quran doesnt always spell out everything but in fact it shifts from periods to events to explain the lessons that Allah taught the ones who did not obey the prophets. Quran does not stick to a linear narration all the time. A'ad and Thamud are mentioned with Firoun also. It doesnt mean those items were in close proximity in terms of time of place.
Now instead of writing a whole book here let me make is sweet and simple. During the initial years of Risalat Hazrat Mohammad (PBUH) asked people to not talk about the stories that come from Israeliate (i.e. from Judaism and even from Christianity) however close to the end of risalah he said that its okay to talk about the stories of Israeliate as a secondary support but not as a primary daleel. (<- this according to Anwar Al-Awlaki)
Book of Esther mentions Haman building a tower for Xerxes.

How many Hamans might have existed during those times I dont know. But the book of Esther has been relagated to a novel even by the christian clergy rather than an historical account.
Having said that For detailed story click here.

So Haman built a tower that was Tower of Babel. Historical facts support Quran in this case unless you want to argue that its not very clear in Quran. The I got no further comments on this one just yet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Falcon Of Kashmir View Post
Thirdly, the story of the two angels in the babil is a separate 'qisa'. Different times, different place. Please remember the link between the angels and Solomon, and then think how can that be one and the same as the tower ordered by Pharoah...who belonged to a different era, a different country.
True. The reason I presented that was simply due to the fact that I presented the whole wiki article without editing it. I did not add comments to that article and I did mention it is straight from wiki. Not the best of sources to begin with, but a huge library nontheless.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Falcon Of Kashmir View Post
Secondly, the Quran only mentions that Pharoah said this to Haman, it is silent about whether the tower was actually built, what was its fate if built etc.
Wrong/False Falcon. Maybe understanding the Quran comes from careful reading and also reading the explanatory texts of the scholars that are reputable and learned. One of the earliest texts is that of Tafseer Ibn Katheer and in that it clearly states the following
"
Allah says: [40:37 last few words regarding the plans of Firoun.
... وَمَا كَيْدُ فِرْعَوْنَ إِلَّا فِي تَبَابٍ ﴿٣٧
and the plot of Fir`awn led to nothing but loss and destruction.
Ibn Abbas and Mujahid said,
"Meaning nothing but ruin.''"
Hence your statement about Quran being silent about the fate of the tower is False.






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Old Jun 30th, 2009, 09:36 AM   #23 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Yea_Boii View Post
What I meant was that your view point is very rigid. And it should be if one claims to be religious. An example is this tower of babel, which I believe is indirectly cited in Quran. As such you're not open to any other reasona s to why languages/races might have developed. You'll hold on to your Tower of Babel explanation.

And by you saying that you're "not limited to things that science can proove OR by the proofs that science can give me" means that you will believe in myths, folklore etc. Therefore; I don't even know I can argue intelligently with you on anything, since you're going to brush aside any arguments considering you don't need any rational/logical basis for it.

Please quit mixing races and languages first of all. Unless you think apples and oranges are the same thing.






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