<![CDATA[GupShup Forums - Culture, Literature & Linguistics]]>

<![CDATA[GupShup Forums - Culture, Literature & Linguistics]]> http://www.paklinks.com/gs/ Lets talk about our cultural heritage: this is the forum to discuss dialects, traditions, clothes, ceremonies, folklore and all other things that make us into who we are. en Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:51:52 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.paklinks.com/gs/images/misc/rss.jpg <![CDATA[GupShup Forums - Culture, Literature & Linguistics]]> http://www.paklinks.com/gs/ roman urdu transliteration scheme...how to write effectively! http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/373332-roman-urdu-transliteration-scheme-how-write-effectively.html Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:35:54 GMT

MODS: is it possible to make this thread STICKY? thank you.

salaam dosto,

i've been around on urdu literery sites for a while and i've noticed, like so many others, that writing urdu in roman is an extremely difficult job due to lack of any established trans-literation scheme. In Hindi, there is one but since urdu has more words that are similar phoenetically but spell totally differently which must be reflected in writing to avoid confusion. one example is the word sahi [Hindi] and saHeeH ['arabii] so we have to differentiate between these words when we write them in roman urdu. There are especial case Hindi letters that are incorporated in urdu but sound differentally so there must be a way to develope a scheme that will allow us to do exactly that.

Some urdu scholars have come up with a universal coding of urdu letters into english letters but at the end of the day i find them to cumbersome and difficult to read. so, i developed another scheme that is a bit simpler and makes reading effortless.

here is ur first lesson:

urdu letters denoted by roman letters:

alif = a
alif mad = aa
be = b
bha = bh [Hindi: as in bharat]
pe = p
pha = ph [Hindi: as in phooT]
te = t
tha = th [Hindi: as in thaali]
Te = T [as in TamaTar]
Tha = Th [Thaakur]
se = 's

jeem = j
che = ch
He = H [as in Halawa]
Khe = Kh

daal = d
Daal = D [as in Daakuu]
zaal = 'z [as in 'zikr]

re = r
aRe = R [as in laRkaa]
ze = z
baRaa ze = "z [as in a"zdahaa]

seen = s
sheen = sh
suaad = 'S
zuaad = 'Z
toe = 't
zoe = "Z

ain = 'a
Ghain = Gh
fe = f
kaaf = k
qaaf = q
gaaf = g

laam = l
meem = m
noon = n
noon Ghunna = N [as in maiN]
vaao = v
chhoTii he = h [as in haathii]

ye = y [words that start with ye like yakka]
ye = ye [words that end in ye like ke (of)]

VOWELS:

zabar = a
zer = i
pesh = o

do zabar = an
do zer = in
do pesh = un

there are other sounds that we'll take up as they come along :)

Thank you...Happy Learning :) ]]> Hashmat Usmani http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/373332-roman-urdu-transliteration-scheme-how-write-effectively.html Spirtuality and Science http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/372810-spirtuality-science.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:46:33 GMT Excerpt from Angels and Demons, a decent book but too commercialized in my opinion. Some parts are really nogin knockers though:

Quote:

"Do you believev in God?"

"I want to believe in God"

"So why don't you?"

"Well its not that easy,. Having Faith requires leaps of faith, cerebral acceptance of miracles and divine interventions. And then there ar the codes of conduct. The Bible, The Koran, Buddhist scripture... they all carry similar requirements-- and similar penalties. They claim that if I don't luve by a specifgic code I will go to hell. I can't imagine aGod who would rule that way."

"Mr. L, I did not ask if you believe in what Man says about God, I asked if you believed in God. There is a difference. Holy scripture is stories... legends and history of man's quest to understand his own need for meaning. I am not asking you to pass judgment on literature. I am asking if you blieve in GOD. When yo ulie out under the stars, do you sense the divine? Do you feel in your gut that you are staring up at he work od God's hand?-----[when asked if she believes in God] Faith is universal. Our specific methods for understanding it are arbitrary. Some of us pray for Jesus, some of us go to Mecca, some of us study subatomic particle. In the we are all jus searching for truth, that which is greater then ourselves.---- science tells me God must exsist. My mind tells me i will never understand God. Any my heart tells me I am not meant to."

I thought this was a very interesting piece. Almost like its a natural law of being; its engraved in our heads (or maybe just mine) that religion is seperate from Science. That science defies religion - but does it really? Believers would say that God has given us knowledge and hence science -- so how can one be co- dependant but still contrasting?

Hmmmm ... ]]> ~MuNiYa~ http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/372810-spirtuality-science.html Book fair http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/372681-book-fair.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:26:32 GMT Is there an on going book fair in lahore ? Is there an on going book fair in lahore ? ]]> Hilal http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/372681-book-fair.html Urdu Dictionary Board under threat http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/371197-urdu-dictionary-board-under-threat.html Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:16:33 GMT Urdu Dictionary Board used to be a separate institution with its own budget. In 2007, it was put under the education ministry. Now Education ministry want to combine Urdu Dictionary Board and Urdu Science Board together. Hopefully this decision will change. Jasarat Unicode... Urdu Dictionary Board used to be a separate institution with its own budget. In 2007, it was put under the education ministry. Now Education ministry want to combine Urdu Dictionary Board and Urdu Science Board together. Hopefully this decision will change.
Jasarat Unicode

اردوڈکشنری بورڈ کا مستقبل

پاکستان کا ایک اور قدیم علمی ادارہ اردو ڈکشنری بورڈ کا وجود خطرے میں پڑ گیا ہے۔ پاکستان کی علم دشمن بیورو کریسی ایک اور علمی اثاثے کو تباہ کرنے پر تلی ہوئی ہے۔ اردو ڈکشنری بورڈ کے وجود کو خطرہ 1970ءمیں کابینہ ڈویژن کے ایک فیصلے کی وجہ سے پیدا ہوا ہے جس کے مطابق کراچی میں قائم اردو ڈکشنری بورڈ اور لاہور میں قائم اردو سائنس بورڈ کو ضم کردینے کا فیصلہ کردیا گیا ہے۔ یہ دونوں ادارے وفاقی وزارت تعلیم کے تحت کام کررہے ہیں۔ اس سلسلے میں وفاقی وزارت تعلیم کی خط کتابت نے اس مسئلے کو ایک بار پھر زندہ کردیا ہے۔ گزشتہ روز اردو ڈکشنری بورڈ کے دفتر میں کراچی کے اہل علم کی موجودگی میں وفاقی وزارت تعلیم کے نمائندوں نے اس بات کی یقین دہانی کرائی ہے کہ وہ اس فیصلے کو تبدیل کرانے کے لیے اقدامات کریں گے۔ لیکن جب تک یہ فیصلہ تبدیل نہیں ہوجاتا اس وقت تک خطرے کی تلوار لٹکتی رہے گی۔ بجائے خود یہ ایک المیہ ہے کہ 1997ءمیں ایک فیصلہ ہوگیا اور اس کے خلاف ردعمل نہیں ہوا‘ اس سے اس بات کا اندازہ ہوتا ہے کہ کراچی کے شہریوں کو خوداپنے شہر کے حقیقی اثاثوں کا کوئی علم نہیں ہے۔ اردو لغت بورڈ جو بابائے اردو مولوی عبدالحق ‘ ڈاکٹر ابواللیث صدیقی‘ جیسے ماہرینلسانیات کی قیادت و رہنمائی میں قائم ہوا تھا اور اس نے غیر معمولی کارنامہ انجام دیا ہے‘ اس ادارے کے تحت اب تک اردو لغت کی 21 جلدیں شائع ہوچکی ہیں۔درمیان میں تعطل بھی آگیا تھا۔لیکن سابق مدیر اعلیٰ ڈاکٹر فرمان فتح پوری اور ڈاکٹر رﺅف پاریکھ کے دور میں تیزی آئی۔ لغت کی تیاری زندہ قوموں کی بنیادی ضرورت ہے لیکن ہمارا علم دشمن معاشرہ بالخصوص حکمران طبقہ اس کام کی اہمیت کو نہیں سمجھتا۔ اب اس مرحلے پر کراچی کے اہل علم بالخصوص ڈاکٹر جمیل الدین عالی‘ ڈاکٹر جمیل جالبی ‘ ڈاکٹر فرمان فتح پوری‘ ڈاکٹر اسلم فرخی اور آفتاب احمد خان جیسے افراد نے اس ادارے کے تحفظ کے لیے آواز اٹھائی ہے اور وفاقی وزات تعلیم کے وفد نے یقین دہانی کرائی ہے کہ اس ادارے کو ضم نہیں کیا جائے گا۔ قوم کو دونوں اداروں کی ضرورت ہے اور اس کے لیے وسائل فراہم کرنا حکومت کا فریضہ۔ ]]> khoji http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/371197-urdu-dictionary-board-under-threat.html Mehndi te vavi malave... http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/371064-mehndi-te-vavi-malave.html Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:33:28 GMT Any Gujjis here? I love this song, can someone please post the lyrics and the translation please. Is it a wedding song? Any Gujjis here? I love this song, can someone please post the lyrics and the translation please.

Is it a wedding song? ]]> Nosherwan http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/371064-mehndi-te-vavi-malave.html <![CDATA[新加的空白文章1]]> http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/371057-1.html Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:28:53 GMT 这是新加的空白文章1，可以在UBB可视化编辑器中，添加和修改文章内容。 ]]> nopq890 http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/371057-1.html <![CDATA[Our wrong practice of using 'heh' instead of 'alif' in words]]> http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/369985-our-wrong-practice-using-heh-instead-alif-words.html Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:35:37 GMT Arabic and Persian languages have many words that end with 'heh', but pronounced similar to 'alif'. For example, جمیلہ، درہ، سرمایہ etc.
But we have now developed a tendency to use this principle even for words which are originally Urdu. This is literally wrong. And we should try to use the correct spelling of these words by using 'alif' instead of 'heh'.

For example:
ناشتا , not ناشتہ
راجا , not راجہ
بنگلا دیش , not بنگلہ دیش ]]> khoji http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/369985-our-wrong-practice-using-heh-instead-alif-words.html Book returned after 145 years http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/367877-book-returned-after-145-years.html Wed, 04 Nov 2009 08:15:52 GMT Book returned to library 145 years overdue | Books | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/apr/20/book-library-lexington-overdue) A book looted from a US library during the American civil war has finally been returned, almost 145 years overdue. The only stipulation of the... Book returned to library 145 years overdue | Books | guardian.co.uk

A book looted from a US library during the American civil war has finally been returned, almost 145 years overdue.

The only stipulation of the Illinois handball coach who returned the title – the first in WFP Napier's four-volume History of the War in the Peninsula and in the South of France – was that he didn't have to pay the $52,858 (£36,000) fine.

The leather-bound volume was taken from the shelves of the Washington and Lee University library in Lexington, Virginia on 11 June 1864 by a Union soldier when General David Hunter and his army of West Virginia raided the area. Passed down by the soldier, CS Gates, through generations of his family, it eventually came into the possession of Mike Dau, of Lake Forest, Illinois, from one of Gates's descendents.

"Mrs Gates had shown me the book many years before she died," said Dau. "I knew that this was a very special book, and remember telling Mrs Gates even then that it really belonged back with its rightful owner."

He decided to make the trip to return the book – which is inscribed with a reference to the raid, and a handwritten reference to Washington College – to the library in person. "Given all the history that is wrapped up in this book, I certainly wasn't going to just send it off," he said. "I wanted to see where it was going."

At the library's current fine rate of $1 a day, Dau could have been the recipient of a $52,858 late return penalty, but the fine was waived.

"It's a remarkable story," said Laura Turner, technical services director for the library. ]]> UZ http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/367877-book-returned-after-145-years.html lets perfect the urdu sentence...a literary exercise! http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/367834-lets-perfect-urdu-sentence-literary-exercise.html Wed, 04 Nov 2009 04:40:20 GMT salaam dosto,

how is everybody?

what we have to do here is that i'll post a very simple and easy paragraph in urdu and u have to refine the text more N more till its rather not possible to refine it any more. make sure that the original meaning of the text remains un changed:

ok? ready? here we go:

do teen din pahle kii baat hai k mere ek dost apni sister ke saath kisi mele meN jaa ne ke liye taiyaar baiThe the. ittifaaq se train 2 ghanTe late thii so ham sab ne sochaa kiuN na ham railway station jaate huye raaste meN ice cream khaa len taa k waqt bhi kaT jaaye aur zabaan ko mazaa bhi mil jaaye. so, is taraH ham sab rickshoN meN lad phand ke chowk gaye jahaN ham sab ne mazedaar ice cream khaaii, kuchh shopping kii phir station gaye aur vahaN pahoNchte hii train aaa chuki thi.

Good Luck!

faqat muKhlis,
_______Hashmat ]]> Hashmat Usmani http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/367834-lets-perfect-urdu-sentence-literary-exercise.html Is the Ain ( 3 ) sound in Urdu supposed to be pronounced like the Arabic Ain? http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/366959-ain-3-sound-urdu-supposed-pronounced-like-arabic-ain.html Sun, 01 Nov 2009 17:39:52 GMT You know how Arabic speakers (from Gulf) pronounce the Ain sound. Is it supposed to be the same in Urdu? Urdu speakers don't say the Ain sound like Arabic speakers do, there is no emphasis on the letter ( 3 ). The way it's said, it might as well just be an alif. ]]> TeenDabbyWala http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/366959-ain-3-sound-urdu-supposed-pronounced-like-arabic-ain.html Ek Mohabbat So Afsanay - Ashfaq Ahmed http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/366793-ek-mohabbat-so-afsanay-ashfaq-ahmed.html Sat, 31 Oct 2009 18:47:16 GMT Just wanted to share this book with you . Ek Mohabbat So Afsanay - Ashfaq Ahmed (http://www.scribd.com/doc/7316852/Ek-Mohabbat-So-Afsanay-Ashfaq-Ahmed) Just wanted to share this book with you .

Ek Mohabbat So Afsanay - Ashfaq Ahmed ]]> NaMaan http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/366793-ek-mohabbat-so-afsanay-ashfaq-ahmed.html A Million Dollars http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/366149-million-dollars.html Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:02:33 GMT Question based on the new movie "The Box" and a local radio station.

Scenerio for those who don't know already

You're given a box and with a button on it - everytime you push that button you get a million dollars but someone in the world dies. Do you push the button and if so how many times?

Defend your desicion. ]]> ~MuNiYa~ http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/366149-million-dollars.html Super Powers http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/366147-super-powers.html Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:00:30 GMT If you could have any super powers; which would you choose and why?

Feed the hungry maybe?

I'll share mine - its rather childish but when I was young I hated studying; I wished I would be able to

a- eat the paper and retain the knowledge
b- sleep with my notes under my pillow and absorb the knowledge while I slept. ]]> ~MuNiYa~ http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/366147-super-powers.html The lost splendour of Pari Nagar http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/365852-lost-splendour-pari-nagar.html Thu, 29 Oct 2009 00:47:23 GMT The lost splendour of Pari Nagar Footloose, NOS, The News International (http://jang.com.pk/thenews/aug2009-weekly/nos-02-08-2009/foo.htm#1) A fanatastic place in the heart of the Thar Desert of Sindh By Salman Rashid In April 1984, young, callow and nescient, I blundered upon the ruins of... The lost splendour of Pari Nagar
Footloose, NOS, The News International

A fanatastic place in the heart of the Thar Desert of Sindh
By Salman Rashid
In April 1984, young, callow and nescient, I blundered upon the ruins of Pari Nagar right by the Rangers post at Virawah in the heart of the Thar Desert of Sindh. My wife and I had managed to commandeer a brand new 4x4 vehicle and driver from somewhere and were making a whirlwind tour of the desert when we ended up in Virawah.
We were travelling like I had always done hoping to be put up by hospitable villagers. But then I used to be alone, now it was the two of us and so putting up in a village and sleeping out in the open with the local dogs sniffing around out charpoys, did not seem like fun. Especially because my wife has a pathological fear of dogs. So we stopped at the Rangers post of Virawah and I went looking for the officers.
The thuds and grunts emanating from the squash court told me where they were. I went in and introduced myself. Telling the major that my wife and I were about to be benighted in the middle of the desert with nowhere to go, I asked if we could kindly be put up. The major, whose name I now forget, was standoffish. Civilians were not permitted to stay at the Rangers facility and we should hurry and make other arrangements.
Even today there are no lodging facilities anywhere near Virawah; a quarter century ago this was like being in the middle of the greatest desert on earth. When all else failed, I told the major that I too had spent time in the army. Sharply he asked me my unit, established my seniority and everything changed. I was 'Sir' and my wife bhabi. We ate a huge dinner of game birds and slept on clean sheets that night.
The next morning with a heavy breakfast sloshing inside, we walked down from the mess to the ruins of Pari Nagar. There was a small temple of gray stone and all but hidden in the rank mesquite, there were ruins and ruins of houses, free standing arches and lintels, more temples and one beautiful raised pedestal with three arches looking out to the west. Even in that ignorance of youth I knew this last was once an open pavilion with arches on all four sides and a roof perhaps domed, perhaps trabeated. The ruins were spread over a couple of acres in my estimation.
The ruins were haunting because of the beauty of the few examples of carved stonework that remained. There were huge sunflowers, some human torsos, and a couple of broken heads with facial features knocked off. There would have been more had we looked around. The ruins were mysterious because the overgrown mesquite only added to the general aura of the place that very clearly once lived at a very grand and regal level. But I was ignorant and had no clue what we were looking at; yet the grandeur was impressive.
Time went by and I read a few books. Pari Nagar, I learned, was established in the 1st century BCE. It was a port city on an inland arm of the Gulf of Cutch. Where the salt-encrusted Rann now spreads its sterile white sheet, there was once a blue lapping sea and here, amid the tall grey dunes, was a deep channel that could take sea-going vessels.
The buildings we saw back in April 1984 were not from the time of its founding -- because no building can last two thousand years -- but from the early Middle Ages. Sometime in those years someone built that pavilion or baradari that we had so admired. Even in its ruined state, all but smothered by the undergrowth, this lovely building looked out on a splendid view to the west: as the sun set, the rich merchant who had ordered it would have reclined against bolsters set by the stone pillars and looked out far across the ships in the busy port to the reddening sky and the deep blue ocean.
For a full thirteen hundred years Pari Nagar flourished doing business with Malabar and Bengal on one side and the Persian Gulf on the other. The banks of Pari Nagar were full, its warehouses rich; its inhabitants were complacent and well off who wore the finest clothes; jewellery crafted by the masters of far off lands and pearls fished from distant sea beds. Their silver came from Indian mines and their gold from a remote land they did not even know was called Siberia. Even the poor of the city never went to bed hungry.
The winter of 1223 was a winter of despair for Pari Nagar. Only two years earlier in February 1221, Jalaluddin Khwarazm, that craven coward, lost to the superior arms of Chengez Khan. After several misadventures in Punjab trying to garner support from either Iyultimish in Delhi or Nasiruddin Qabacha in Multan, and failing, he set south along the Sindhu River. Qabacha deserted Multan and fled south to the island fortress of Bhakkar (between Sukkur and Rohri). Khwarazm plundered and sacked the defenceless cities of Multan and Uch and eventually made his way to lower Sindh.
Sehwan was spared, but the port of Debal was given up to arson and looting. With his mind set on reaching Baghdad where a brother of his held a chiefship, Khwarazm sought the expenses for that long and difficult journey. Word of the affluence of Pari Nagar would then have reached this rapacious coward. He turned his face east and making his way across the desert attacked the city.
We do not know what he plundered nor too how many lives were lost to his savagery, we only know that the rich and opulent city of Pari Nagar was laid low. When the flames died and the last wisp of smoke rose into the sky, those of its inhabitants that survived the carnage did not return to their much-cherished city. They dispersed across the lands and the shifting sand smothered what remained.
From the winter of 1223 until 1984, for a full seven hundred and sixty-one years, the ghostly ruins stood amid the dunes as reminders of the long ago splendour. Subsequent to the first visit, I made a number of trips past Virawah but I never stopped there until two months ago. Once again I had a guide from the Rangers. The old temple was still there, only this time around it was washed a brilliant white. But all the other ruins had disappeared. I turned on my guide rebuking him for bringing me to the wrong place -- even though it had a vague sense of déjà vu.
We went around and came back to the temple and then I noticed the blue sign put up by the Department of Archaeology informing all comers that this was a protected monument and must not be vandalised. My guide was correct; we were at the right spot. 'But what happened to all those ruins, the arches, the pedestals, everything?' I asked my guide in dismay.
Over the years, the people of Virawah had quarried the ruined city whenever they needed dressed stones, he said. The pillars were now in the thresholds of new houses, the slabs of the floor of the baradari now in the washing up places and the lintels perhaps broken up to provide ballast.
I turned on the poor man again: 'If some young people were holding hands here, you chaps would have pounced on them and hounded them to hell. But you turned a blind eye on the destruction of our national heritage. It was happening right in front of you. Shame on you!' It was not this poor man's fault, but that of an entire system that thrives on its facility to dwell on meaningless issues. This rotten system had deprived future researchers of a chance to discover another little bit of our past.
As compensation, the man said there were some really old graves that I ought to see. We drove through the Virawah bazaar to a low dune on the far side and parked by a boundary wall. This was a walled-in graveyard and among its many new-fangled graves there was a bunch of old ones. The large bricks that made the graves have been in use in Sindh since the 3rd century BCE and remained in vogue until edged out by the thinner, smaller version favoured by the Mughals as recently as the 17th century.
As a layman, I was not in a position to say which period these graves belonged to, but even as we stood their regarding them, I felt this vicarious pleasure imagining that some of the Khwarazmian villain's aides may well be buried in the sands of Thar. No compensation for the plunder and destruction of some priceless cities in the land of the Sindhu River; only some wicked pleasure that the land did claim some of that worthless blood.
This pleasure however does not offset the sense of loss for the damage done to the old port city. I was fortunate to have been there twenty-five years ago; another traveller today will never be able to gauge the lost splendour of Pari Nagar. ]]> thejoke http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/365852-lost-splendour-pari-nagar.html what does amanat mean http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/365267-what-does-amanat-mean.html Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:10:29 GMT :-D :-D ]]> fairywings85 http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-linguistics/365267-what-does-amanat-mean.html