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    1. #19
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      "Fools talk, cowards are silent, wise men listen."

    2. #20
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      LOL...

      Dance (or any form of indulging art) itself is a very liberating experience, doesn't matter whether you do in Saudi or in Germany.
      Theorist likes this.

    3. #21
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      ^Exactly! Has nothing to do with someone holding a job or being successful.
      "Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking." ~ Steve Jobs

    4. #22
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      I don't understand it....the objection came from MUSLIMS IN UK? Why?
      "Fools talk, cowards are silent, wise men listen."

    5. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by Theorist View Post
      So given your definition, only less than 15% of all Saudi women are actually liberated and over 80-90% of the women in the west are liberated.
      Jee bilkul. Any lallu could take off his/her clothes, not a big deal at all. But it does take years of hard work to be a successful woman in a man's world and that's liberation imo. Btw where are you getting the 80-90% stat form? Last time I checked (which was 2010) women made up 46% of the work force in the US and 46% in the UK too.

      Quote Originally Posted by Theorist View Post
      Also, she said in her own words she feels liberated in doing so..
      Good for her.

      I feel awesome doing yoga, may be I should take pictures performing haram hindu asanas in a burqa and post em all over the net to make a retarded point.
      GS - It's all about enjoying the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.

    6. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by hareem01 View Post
      I don't understand it....the objection came from MUSLIMS IN UK? Why?
      They found the burqa photos distasteful..

    7. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by Deeba1234 View Post
      They found the burqa photos distasteful..
      British niqabis are pretty egoistic...remember that incident in Lancashire?
      "Fools talk, cowards are silent, wise men listen."

    8. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by hareem01 View Post
      British niqabis are pretty egoistic...remember that incident in Lancashire?
      I bet you they were probably all men who made a big deal out of this
      GS - It's all about enjoying the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.

    9. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by BarbieCue View Post
      I bet you they were probably all men who made a big deal out of this
      I don't think so....I think no one knew about this until they saw Dailymail. And I can't find any proof anywhere if British Muslims have anything to do with this.
      "Fools talk, cowards are silent, wise men listen."

    10. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by BarbieCue View Post
      Jee bilkul. Any lallu could take off his/her clothes, not a big deal at all. But it does take years of hard work to be a successful woman in a man's world and that's liberation imo. Btw where are you getting the 80-90% stat form? Last time I checked (which was 2010) women made up 46% of the work force in the US and 46% in the UK too.



      Good for her.

      I feel awesome doing yoga, may be I should take pictures performing haram hindu asanas in a burqa and post em all over the net to make a retarded point.
      Just making a point that you don't have to degrade other women to make yourself feel better and other niqabis - an attitude that turns a lot of us off.
      "Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking." ~ Steve Jobs

    11. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by Theorist View Post
      Just making a point that you don't have to degrade other women to make yourself feel better and other niqabis - an attitude that turns a lot of us off.
      I degraded her?
      GS - It's all about enjoying the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.

    12. #30
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      ^No, you made an indirect reference to the western women who perhaps CHOSE to strip off for a porno or CHOSE to do whatever the hell they are doing. You may not think that's a liberating experience but they do... similar to how you feel liberated in niqab..
      "Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking." ~ Steve Jobs

    13. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by Theorist View Post
      ^No, you made an indirect reference to the western women who perhaps CHOSE to strip off for a porno or CHOSE to do whatever the hell they are doing. You may not think that's a liberating experience but they do... similar to how you feel liberated in niqab..
      And how's that degrading? I don't even wear a niqab, I am not even offended that she's poledancing, I just said there's nothing wrong with it, I just said she was a liberal modern muslimah, I'm calling this controversy (not her) fazool retarded and needless, so please don't put words into my mouth. All the western women who choose porno don't sit there going on about Christianity/Judaism but somehow Islam becomes a part of the most unnecessary publicity stunts. THAT is what I have a problem with.

      I could very easily say you were degrading burqa clad women in your first post but I understand your perception of liberation is different to mine so we can agree to disagree without accusing each other of being offensive.
      GS - It's all about enjoying the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.

    14. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by BarbieCue View Post
      And how's that degrading? I don't even wear a niqab, I am not even offended that she's poledancing, I just said there's nothing wrong with it, I just said she was a liberal modern muslimah, I'm calling this controversy (not her) fazool retarded and needless, so please don't put words into my mouth. All the western women who choose porno don't sit there going on about Christianity/Judaism but somehow Islam becomes a part of the most unnecessary publicity stunts. THAT is what I have a problem with.
      How do you know she feels comfortable in the society she lives in? She was being ridiculed for what she thought a lot of women could benefit from. It obviously backfired. She lives in a country that doesn't even allow to her to drive. No wonder this is a liberating experience for her...can you really blame her?

      I could very easily say you were degrading burqa clad women in your first post but I understand your perception of liberation is different to mine so we can agree to disagree without accusing each other of being offensive.
      "Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking." ~ Steve Jobs

    15. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by Deeba1234 View Post
      Tolerance of Arabia: Pole dancer sparks outrage in Muslim community after taking erotic art to Saudi

      By Deborah Arthurs

      A British fitness instructor who visited the strict Muslim kingdom of Saudi Arabia to teach a Saudi woman the art of pole dancing has sparked disapproval among UK Muslims back home.

      27-year-old Lucy Misch was invited to the country by one of Saudi's richest and most influential families after a woman from the family attended a pole dancing class in Europe and reported back to her relatives living in the kingdom. Misch's host - a 36-year-old working mother named Qahtani, one of only 15 per cent of women to have a job in Saudi, arranged for her to bypass the complicated laws of entrance and exit to the kingdom single Britons usually face, whisking her through Riyadh airport unimpeded.



      Attachment 7860


      Ahead of her trip, Mischa shipped three X-Stage poles worth 500 each to Qahtani - the first such poles ever allowed into Saudi Arabia - where they were installed in a specially dedicated mirrored room set up as a studio within her palace. 'Needless to say, there is no history of pole dancing in Saudi Arabia,' says Misch. 'It's not the kind of place you expect to be invited to teach pole. But my client's sister lives in Europe where she’d discovered pole dancing for fitness, and they’d talked about the amazing benefits pole can have on the body. My client wanted the same things that attracted many others to pole dancing: an exhilarating workout to get her fit and toned.' 'She liked the fact that it was a feminine exercise, and that she could feel liberated and sexy whilst doing it.'

      Misch taught Qahtani - who is, unusually, the sole wife to her husband Mohammed - intensively for two hours each day, six days a week, teaching her to climb the pole, do the splits upside down and create a fluid routine. The two trained in Lycra gym kit - a stark contrast from the abaya Saudi women wear in public.

      As a stunt, Misch and her host took photos of themselves performing a pole dance wearing the abaya, Saudi Arabia's traditional dress. 'Qahtani wanted to make a point,' says Misch. 'But it angered a lot of people who thought the photos were insulting.'

      Attachment 7857


      When the photos were made public in the UK, Misch found she faced criticism from Saudi Muslims who had seen the pictures.

      One said: 'I found your photos disrespectful towards women who wear the hijab with dignity in Saudi and who would never step next to a dancing pole knowing its hideous roots.'

      Misch is quick to defend her position. 'I want to make it clear that pole dancing does not have its roots in strip clubs,' she says. 'There has been a tradition of performing on the pole in China and India for centuries - way before Spearmint Rhino got their hands on it.'

      It's a real skill. When you try it, you realise how hard it is. It takes strength, determination and skill. Performing on the pole, says Misch, dates back to Indian mallakhamb - a male-dominated sport where men perform feats of strength on a wooden pole, or the Chinese pole, where acrobats perform moves such as the flag, where they hang horizontally from the pole using only their hands. 'It's truly gravity-defying on so many levels, and requires immense strength.' Misch, who is keen to distance her sport further from the strip clubs, points out that many polers these days don't perform in high heels and provocative outfits.

      'I prefer to train in trainers or barefoot, and I wear sports clothes. You need some bare flesh to help you grip the pole, which I know adds to the associations with strippers. But we wear normal fitness gear. Some of the male pole performers have special trousers made with panels that grip the pole.' The health benefits too, says Misch, are undeniable. Qahtani managed to drop two dress sizes thanks to the workout.

      'It was an interesting fitness experiment,' says Misch. 'I have never worked so specifically with one person in a concentrated space of time.

      'Qahtani was by no means a large lady to begin with - she was slender and fit, and fairly strong from her yoga practise - but when she started the pole, everything changed. Everything tightened up. Her lower back became stronger. Her bottom became higher and tighter. Everything improved. She was over the moon. As someone who lives in a liberal, pro-woman world I thought I would find Saudi a very different place to be,' Misch continues.

      'It certainly was different, but my experiences were overwhelmingly positive. Pole dancing for fun and fitness will always happen in the home and in private classes, something that suits Saudi culture well. If pole dancing were to take off in Saudi, it could well mark the beginning of a new era for freedom of choice from the women and men living in the country. 'Change is happening, if sometimes painfully slowly, but my visit to Riyadh suggest that the change is a positive one and that pole dancing may someday be embraced by the good people of the Middle East.'

      'Because there’s no history of strip clubs or pole dancing, most men would think women were just learning a new form of exercise – ironically in a place where religion and judgement plays such a large role, pole suffers from fewer preconceived connotations or moral judgements.'

      Visit Lucy Misch's website at www.poleexercise.co.uk



      Attachment 7859

      Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...#ixzz1Yj7kWUn6

      Any thoughts? The pictures seem a bit provocative but I've actually tried this and it's brilliant exercise
      Tried this?

      And what happened?


      Impress me..with your intelligence and wit. :-)

    16. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by Theorist View Post
      How do you know she feels comfortable in the society she lives in? She was being ridiculed for what she thought a lot of women could benefit from. It obviously backfired. She lives in a country that doesn't even allow to her to drive. No wonder this is a liberating experience for her...can you really blame her?
      There's a way of going about things, Theorist, and this isn't the smartest one in my opinion. You do know there are fatwas out there banning yoga for muslims, right? Now I feel yoga is awesome and people could benefit from it, what do you think would be the right way to encourage people to take up yoga? If someone tells me hey don't you know yoga is haram you're so going to hell, how should I go about educating them on my point of view? Drag Islam into it like the "scholars" who I don't agree with it did or keep Islam out of it, tell them I practise it solely for fitness purposes without any hinduism connotations whatsoever, educate them about the bazillions of health benefits of yoga... or should I create unnecessary controversy by posting burqa pictures of me performing asanas? The latter's the dumb way and that's all I'm speaking against in this thread.

      Also guys, please quit thinking women don't have a life in KSA. When they step outside of their personal space, yes there are many restrictions such as compulsion of abaya and ban on driving but in their own personal space they live their life just like you and me, they dress like you and me, they are aware of Victoria's Secret believe it or not!! Like Enigmatic said, private gyms, personal trainers, luxurious spas and whatnot, they have it all so a woman practising *any* form of exercise in her own house is no big deal... it would be a different story if she started practising it in public but no one stopped her from doing her own thing in her house so I don't understand the "reaction" and I don't understand the hype. That's all I'm saying, not degrading anyone's life here.
      GS - It's all about enjoying the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.

    17. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by BarbieCue View Post
      There's a way of going about things, Theorist, and this isn't the smartest one in my opinion. You do know there are fatwas out there banning yoga for muslims, right? Now I feel yoga is awesome and people could benefit from it, what do you think would be the right way to encourage people to take up yoga? If someone tells me hey don't you know yoga is haram you're so going to hell, how should I go about educating them on my point of view? Drag Islam into it like the "scholars" who I don't agree with it did or keep Islam out of it, tell them I practise it solely for fitness purposes without any hinduism connotations whatsoever, educate them about the bazillions of health benefits of yoga... or should I create unnecessary controversy by posting burqa pictures of me performing asanas? The latter's the dumb way and that's all I'm speaking against in this thread.
      You are right but to bring about any change in society one must stand up against the system. Maybe that's what she was trying to do. I don't really see it as a controversy.

      Also guys, please quit thinking women don't have a life in KSA. When they step outside of their personal space, yes there are many restrictions such as compulsion of abaya and ban on driving but in their own personal space they live their life just like you and me, they dress like you and me, they are aware of Victoria's Secret believe it or not!! Like Enigmatic said, private gyms, personal trainers, luxurious spas and whatnot, they have it all so a woman practising *any* form of exercise in her own house is no big deal... it would be a different story if she started practising it in public but no one stopped her from doing her own thing in her house so I don't understand the "reaction" and I don't understand the hype. That's all I'm saying, not degrading anyone's life here.
      I don't know girl..I could never live like that! Give me liberty or give me death wali baat hai.
      "Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking." ~ Steve Jobs

    18. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by Theorist View Post
      You are right but to bring about any change in society one must stand up against the system. Maybe that's what she was trying to do. I don't really see it as a controversy.
      That's not what it says in the article. Don't know what she'll accomplish from this but knowing how sensitive/conservative Saudis can be about these things, she has probably offended the women in that very system so it just defeats the purpose, not many are going to rebel against the system to follow someone who they think did something distasteful... she's either not smart enough and this controversy was unintentional or she's very smart for having thought of this publicity stunt.

      Quote Originally Posted by Theorist View Post
      I don't know girl..I could never live like that! Give me liberty or give me death wali baat hai.
      That is why you choose not to live there but those who do despite having enough money to move elsewhere do so because life isn't all that extreme. You will see women standing up against the driving ban or speaking up for equal rights at workplace etc but I haven't seen many protesting against the abaya... infact they take as much interest in designer abayas as we do in designer shalwar kameez.. so that just goes to show that they sorta like bits of the system that we can't live with. Even expat women enjoy a western lifestyle inside the so-called compounds where rules of the off-compound society don't apply.
      GS - It's all about enjoying the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.

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