Samad

Sarmad

Faisal, you can't take one case of crazy teens and try to pin the whole issue on it; there are suicide pacts and cults that do all sorts of things but we don't use those examples as the norm; rather they are the exception. You could even compare this logic with the notion that Muslims want to "kill infidels" because most terrorist attacks are perpetrated by Muslims; of course we all know that those fanatics are not the norm. Therefore, we can go ahead and put that notion aside that for some reason the majority of teenage girls who become pregnant do so out of their own volition.

I'm surprised that people are somewhat over-analyzing the situation. Let's just call it like it is: a lot of teenagers and young adults do not have self-control of their desires or emotions and therefore land themselves into situations of intimacy. In that atmosphere, a human's emotions tend to supersede rational thought (especially because it took a lack of proper thinking to get into this situation in the first place). Obviously the majority of teenagers wouldn't want the burden of a pregnancy or an STD, but their carelessness (and in my opinion, moral decadence) steers them into that eventuality.

Personally, I find the teaching of "safe sex" instead of abstinence to be akin to increasing the supply of life vests on beaches.. instead of telling people not to jump in the water if they can't swim.

Faisal

^ I don't know how you jumped to the erroneous conclusion that this is the ONLY reason why teen-age girls get pregnant. All it means is that this is one additional possible reason (i.e. girl wants to bond with her bf by way of a baby, or wants to have a baby to get over a dysfunctional family) There can be 101 other reasons too. No one is disputing that.

Riya

I know one pakistani couple who wanted to get married, but parents were strictly opposing their union. The guy made a plan and told the girl that if he got her pregnant, the parents would have no choice but to get them married. Things didnt work out too well, he left for Pakistan even before she discovered that she was expecting, and now she's stuck with no option but to terminate it.

So in this case, they werent using protection because they wanted to guarantee that their relationship wouldn't end.

Sarmad

Riya, that's a really sad example of what can happen when passion and emotions overtake maturity and rationality. If they sooo badly wanted to get married, there are better and more acceptable ways of doing so; if we take the Islamic perspective then the girl doesn't need her parent's permission anyhow and things can be worked out.. but it is very immature to go for broke and get pregnant just for the sake of a relationship. Without knowing the specifics of that case, it seems the guy either wasn't sincere or not very bright as he left the country knowing there was a chance that the girl was pregnant; what sort of behavior is that for the person you are dying to be with? And the girl was being immature and short-sighted as well.

Faisal, sure there can be all sorts of reasons. I got the impression from your post that you were emphasizing that specific reason, that's all.

hsap

riya .........courtship is what a lot of couples do including one's in our community, i knew few families where the full-term first child was born long before the 8-9 months of gestation , so that makes it obvious that girl was pregnant @ the time of wedding , but since they were commited to get married one day hence having unprotected sex would've been acceptable for them , the couple u've mentioned might have planned the same except that the guy didn't fulfil his commitment.

Sarmad

if it's a Muslim couple, it obviously wouldn't be acceptable.. but for the public in general, the stigma of pre-marital conception is not as strong anymore.

mAd_ScIeNtIsT

The simple answer is that young people do not act rationally and intelligently, as much as they like to think they do. That's why they need the framework and limits that adult supervision places around them.

hsap

peace , samad........... i used term acceptable while referring to a particular situation / couples who do courtship,
on a side note, alhamdulillah i'm aware of islamic rulings and believe that such activities r not acceptable at all

MANIAC24

if the condom iz good and strong then therez no need to worry lol coz even if u bust a small part of ur nut itz all out

Mariacheema

i think most of the time teens dont use protection because they believe nothing will happened to them.

Mariacheema

i dont know who said they blame the parents for their kids action, i totally agree with that person. if you keep an eye on your kids they wont do stupid stuff. lately, desi people want to be "modern" so they let their kids go out to bars and hang around everywhere in situation like these is when intimate relationship starts.

Desi_BeauTii

I agree, very well said!

Shikra

What?

Anyway, condoms are not 100% when it comes to protection, I hope you have read the warning on the box.

bebo

So he fooled the girl into having sex with him.

Orpheus

Well said Niksik.

baji2720

No, it is not enough, from any perspective you look at it from. yes there majority of people in Pakistan, never talk to their kids about sex, and most come out ok. Thats is what we might think. There is so much more involved in all this. It is not merely about having sex....it is something that is affecting all of society. IMHO, I think Pakistani society is losing its values and morality...i was shocked when I went in 2005 on Lahore's Mall Road, to see a huge Lux billboard of a bare shoulders model.

it is the message our society is sending our children, that it is ok to become more and more like the west, especially when it comes to our daily lives. National pride is so swelled up, but only evident in the words, not in the actions. Look at the clothes, Capris! For heaven sake! Capris have forever considered to be a summer casual apparel here in US...and we Pakistanis found a way to implement them into our wardrobe and to make them the hottest trend. look at the models, and they are also the actresses who are acting in dramas, which pakistani families follow religiously. And so without even knowing it, the message that is being sent out is that, its ok to be like them...and so all this is now becoming more prevalent as is evident in the earlier posts.

I know the moderators do not want to turn this into a religous discussion, but i beg to differ. How can you not on a Pakistani forum, bring religion into such a discussion, when it is the core of real problem. How can there be a meaningful discussion without discussing that. Because that is the central point and the one that holds the answer.


" would like to just point out to the parents here that majority of Pakistanis who grew up HERE (forget Pakistan) never received any sort of 'talk' from the parents and they are perfectly fine. So why the sudden change? Why do you feel that your kids need to know about this? If you create the environment for them, isn't that enough? IMHO..."

Just because millions of people are doing something in one way does not make it right, and slowly, slowly it is showing up as to why that is.

In seeking this knowledge, shyness does not stand as a barrier in this case, but such knowledge must be imparted in a modest and dignified manner. Almighty Allah says, “Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Are those who know equal with those who know not? But only men of understanding will pay heed.” (Az-Zumar: 9)

`A’ishah, the wife of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, made this clear: "Blessed are the women of the Ansar (the citizens of Madinah). Shyness did not stand in their way seeking knowledge about their religion." (Reported by The Group save at-Tirmizi).

I have seen that us pakistani put more weight into culture and tradition rather than religion. We go through the motions without understanding what they mean or what they represent.

It was an amazement to me when in Pakistan, that the adhaan would come, and it would hit me right in my soul. My son who at that time was about 9 years old would look at me in amazement as he felt the beauty and splendor of actually hearing the adhaan, 5 times a day, everyday from every direction. But so sad that it was like background music to most others.

Growing up in the US, I think that there is good opportunity to raise our children in the best possible Islamic environment. I am so blessed and thankful to Allah, that he gave us the ability to live in such a location. Here in our community, we sendoutr children to full time Islamic school, where they receive the best Islamic education, environment and academic education as well. They not only learn about their religion, there has been engrained in their foundation the love of Allah, Islam, the Prophet. They have the fear of Allah. It is not that they just know of the rules, and that this is halal or that is haraam, it is much broader than that. they understand why it is so. They rejoice in the coming of Ramadan, in being involved in Islamic activities. All because it is done as a part of their everyday life. it is not just a sermon they hear on Friday. The girls dress modestly most wearing hijab...But they all also enjoy life. Because of the environment, parents are at ease at letting their children plan outings annd activities, because we know their friends. They go to movies, (of course appropriate ones), they have parties, they go camping, they are involved in sports. Alhamdulillah, Allah has made it possible for us to be able to provide them such the best of facilities and environment. Of course after that whatever happens is out of our hands. Unfortunately, even having this choice available for their children, however there are those who choose not to take this opportunity.

Anyways, they have a good set up in the community where they have gril groups and boys groups, and they have the leaders who are like them, often someone who has grown up in the our community, with whom they identify well with, and they usually talk to the kids and make them comfortable to come talk to them.

I personally, have it so that my children are comfortable in talking to me about anything. i think it is very important. So they will participate in everything and they will share with me all that goes on, Alhamdulillah.

The school did their part also by 7th grade they had taught them the biology of how a child is created. and i also spoke to my son. As more and more girls were starting to get their periods, and so they would not pray. I thought i should at least explain. Alhamdulillah, my son is very mellow and well mannered. And he was very practical about it, as he knew the biology and so to put into perspective was easier, and he understood. he is respectful and it is not something for him to snicker or make jokes about.

Sorry about the long post, but wanted to share my thoughts on something I think is very crucial.

COCO

whats the point behind threads like these....?

iReport

I guess the purpose of this thread is to share ideas about what parents can do to be more open to their children and discuss these issues in a positive and effective manner.

Like unprotected and pre-martial sex, use of drugs in high school and college is another issue that should be discussed in a positive and effective manner with the children.

Shak09

Its more about people using common sense and the children's upbringing than parents 'talking' to their children.

Ive been bought up by the idea that messing around before marriage is wrong. I didn't have parents 'talk' to me or anything like that, it was obvious how I was expected to behave. This naturally means I won't mess around before my marriage and if by some miracle I do end up doing something then I'll be clever enough to use protection. Its common sense. For me if people are clever to have sex then they're clever enough to know about simple measures such as condoms. The reason for the unwanted pregnancies is people aren't bothered when it comes to protection.

Malik Zulfi

I am getting an impression here that its OK for young ones to have sexual activities but they should be taught about the ways to prevent pregnancy . . . that is very confusing . .

Instead of creating an environment at our homes and community to stop such activities we are thinking that why they do not use protection and furthermore how they can be taught about such protection techniques.

We need to create an environment at our homes/ schooles / community / media to tell our young ones about good and bad. consiquences in this world and life here after.

We can not just leave the Islam out of it . . . because its a code of life . . .

Khush Raho . . .

Shikra

I agree, we cannot leave Islam out of it. The reason why I asked people not to involve religion in it because every Muslim should know that pre-marital sex is wrong. We already know that, there is no point in discussing this topic if every single reply said "Islam doesn't allow it". We KNOW Islam doesn't allow it, but that does not mean that pre-marital sex does NOT happen. It still happens, whether Pakistan, Saudia, or any other Muslim country.

Just because Islam says you can't do something, Muslims do not stay away from it, I am sure you would agree with me on that. So I wanted to ask questions keeping religion out of the discussion to save us from same replies........k bhai jo nahi hona chahiye tha woh tou hogaya, NOW WHAT? How can we prevent it because obviously religion is not stopping people from having premarital sex

I hope this helps clear things up.

Malik Zulfi

Dear Brother

as some one has already mentioned, England has the highest rate when it comes to teen age pregnancy and you will agree that they are getting sex education and their Parents / media is quite open when it comes to prevention methods but even then they are not able to suppress this issue.

why . . .

My dear brother here I beleave that moral education is the solution for such kind of issues. No doubt that such things happen in Pakistan, KSA or any Muslim country but u will agree that the ratio is very low when we compare it to non muslim countries.

Such things is happening in Muslim Countries is all because we are forgetting our moral values and adopting western moral values. Only and only if we can teach teenagers about our moral values we will be will be able to minimise such incidents . Exceptions will always be there . . .

Sex Education . . Media presentations . . is not a solution . . .

Moral Education is . . .

Shikra

Zulfi bhai, I agree.....but where does that Moral education come from? From parents? School? or Mosques? that's the question. That's the part that we are trying to figure out that if religion clearly says don't do it, but people are still doing it (even if the ratio is low), how can we stop it?

Should parents talks to their kids? You think sex education and media presentations are not solutions, then what is the solution in your opinion?

Colourful eyes

wow i didnt relize it was like this for pakistani people....