Ansoon

I have been debating with myself whether I should move to Pakistan or not. My current plan is to save up as much as I can over the next 1 year (till next summer) and then move back to Pakistan.

The decision would have been easy if I was moving alone. However, that won't be the case. I will probably be married by next March, so will have my wife with me to move there. She is already excited and willing to move, but I am thinking that she isn't really thinking it from the realistic Pakistani situation, rather the fantasy of unlimited shopping spree lol

So my question is for ppl here, particularly married couples, who might have tried (successful or not) to move back to Pakistan..

Please note that neither me nor her has any property in Pakistan, so basically we will be starting from scratch. Much like we would've done if we moved to any other country.

Afro-Sheen

What is the reason for moving there & what are your plans for income there? Have you considered the political situation there?

COLD_FIRE

One answer...
Extremely high risk.

Welcome.

Ansoon

Afro-Sheen: My aim to get involved with the local startups (technology companies) within karachi. I have been planting the seed for about 2 years now. We are both 25 so dont' have a huge amount of savings but that also means that we are in a good position to take the risk.

Another main reason to move to Pakistan is to contribute back to that country. We both feel that we owe Pakistan our hardwork, so that is sorta our mutual agreement. I also want my kids to be well aware of Pakistan (not that we are planning any for next 3 - 4 yrs)

@cold_fire: thanks for stating the obvious.. we are not too worried about it.

AnjanaSaDil

in my opinion, its not a good idea to move back. i'm speaking from family experience. i have 9 uncles on my dads side. all of whom are successful doctors and on the religious side. they have been setteld here in USA for close to 20+ years. all are married, all have kids. a few years back a bunch of them decided to move to PK (all of them at different intervals. i guess one did it and the rest copied) anyways, they wanted to move back b/c their kids were getting older and they feel they needed the cultural and religious influence, etc. lets just say that they ALL came back within a year. the main reason being that the family could not adjust....to things like traffic, load shedding, extreme heat, crime, freedom for the women to go out alone, etc etc... they had even set up sucessful practices there too, so its not like they were middle class ppl. they were doing very very well. but money isnt everything u know?

in your case, i would ask you....are u guys orginally from PK or were u born and raised here? cuz if you are born and raised here and have only VISITED Pk in the past, then living there is a WHOLE diff story. u know?

i hope this helps.

Ansoon

AnjanaSaDil: That is a valid point. I have also seen ppl who tried going back but failed to settle in. However, one must try?

I was born there and lived 18 yrs of my life there. She was born in canada and have visited pakistan every 2 - 4 years.

AnjanaSaDil

glad to be of some help.......your situation is close to mine. i was born and 100% raised in USA. lived here all of my life. my hubby however is 100% from pk. in a situation where he would want to move back and settle...i would of course consider it for his sake but it wont be easy AT ALL for me...seeing as how im so used to the westernized way of living. u know? ....as long as your future wife knows what shes up against, then inshAllah you guys might be able to make it. make sure you do get across the point that living and vacationing there are 2 entirely diff situations. but i do love your attitude, that one must try and also give back to our home country. if more ppl thought like u then perhaps pk's halaat would be in a better place right now.

SAM_NYC

For you it will be little easier then her. I think she is excited because in past she was just visiting Pakistan and didn't face the real problems. But when you are going to settle over there your challenge will be totally different and much more difficult. Like Ajanabi said problems like traffic, load shading, crime, freedom for women, extremism etc.. You will have to face these things on daily basis. and these things put lot of stress not only on individual's personality but also on relationship.

You want to give back to your country. This is positive and good attitude and My prayers are with you. But i don't think you will find this easy as working or job environment is not as supportive as you find here.

Over all i would not suggest you to permanently settle in Pakistan.

Ansoon

SAM that is what I told her. I know the reality on the ground isn't that good and that life is hard there. But then I also think that when will that "good" time come? how will that "good" time come in our country?

Any hybrid approach that can be taken here?

SAM_NYC

Try this trough her parents may be they understand it better. I know if you will go there, it will take hardly 6 months or max 1 year that you will decide to come back in Canada.

Croquet

its definitely not impossible. just calls for adjustments to be made. keep your options open and dont burn your boats.

Ansoon

why do you say so? yes I have spent considerable time here in canada but that doesn't mean that i have developed no tolerance for the way things work in Pakistan. Yes it is going to be hard but ultimately, I personally think that in the long run it will be beneficial.

Croquet

^i have done it. and so far havent given up. but i would say it requires patience and thinking ahead. and you might need to take trips.

Ansoon

Croquet, can you tell me what made you move back? What sort of experience have you had so far? did you move as a bachelor or married?

McPendo

Watch out for crowded places and veiled women! Danger lurks at every corner, dont wear your Armani shirt out to the bazar and keep your ipod at home! Relax and learn your surroundings and escape routes! If in a situation a bomb explodes do not run with the crowed also take heck of alot of Anti biotics! Enjoy!

nadz123

i think its great, well done for being so open minded. its fairly annoying, when theres a cricket match on, all my cusins and aunts and uncle are supporting pakistan, they all got the flags out and are chanting pakistan zindabad....and this is against england ( where we have been born and raised)

so why do these same people ambush any idea of doing more than just waving a flag around in a game of cricket. there are people who live there safe and sound, it supports 170 million people, not al of them are facing hardshuip. i agree, its gona be tough, i personally would not want to move, but i would given the right attitude and reassurance. you need someone to give you hope, strength and some faith. its not all bad. its easy for us to sit here in our priveleged position alhumdullila and find fault. yes the situation there is not good at the moment however you state you want to move next year, inshallah things will be ok by then.

also are we saying that the chances of us living longer if we stay in the west are higher.....than if in pak....death is in gods hands.

Croquet

i moved back to get married so didnt stay bachelor for long after moving back. though right now i am again in australia but this is on temporary basis. (some work my husband has to do for a year or two) . i moved as a bachelor and then got married over there.i just wanted to bring up my children in pakistan i guess. or atleast their early years because i think that is the time when identities are being built and values are being ingrained. Financial concerns are huge for some families .Its sort of an off again on again thing for those, i know one family who has tried moving back 4 times. Most of the people in community just call them foolish but i see that their children donot feel like an aliens in pakistan.

Anyhow it very much depends on your individual situation and family. if you are a guy and unmarried much easier (unless you have other responsibilities) to give it a try. Once again bear in mind there are going to be financial issues if you donot come from a wealthy family and donot have other incomes other than your own.Jobs are flighty due to country's situation.if that is the situation i'd say get married here, save up lot more, own some property in pakistan as back up and by the time you have children you will be set to give it a try. (InshAllah the war mania might be reduced along time) I read you said that your wife to be is excited about moving, was she brought up in pak? If no ,bear in mind sometimes people chagne their opinions so may be one of you changes their perspective. Also for women its harder to make the leap, since women feel more restricted and concerned for their safety there.

so you have to keep in mind that money matters are going to haunt you around for a while, have a strategy ready to combat them. I moved in with my husband so we decided independantly and we didnt have anyother responsibilities. That is why it wasnt very difficult for us. Some people are doing an excellent job of raising children in different societies but i often felt children to an extent were missing out and mostly grew up quite indifferent to pakistan. So i wanted my children to be able to have the same life that i did while i grew up in pakistan. My husband was also born bred pakistani so we had minor expectations.

As for the hybrid approach. I guess some people move back and forth. Some have working vocation out of pakistan but that takes toll on family since separation isnt good for them.

TeenDabbyWala

I think we should all be supportive of Ansoo. You know how India got so successful in the technology arena? Because people from here (especially California) moved back there and established startups and worked for already established companies taking their ideas and experience with them.

djmi

Given the current political situation in Pakistan, its not a wise move.
Move back with a return ticket, try it out for six months, see how wifey adjusts and yourself, then plan on investing in property and living permanently.

Giving back to the country is fine but do you want your children to be raised in such an unsafe environment? In karachi, firing and strikes happen daily. Schools get bomb threats, forget bomb threats, schools are hardly run regularly. There are no parks or playgrounds and galis arent safe like they use to be.

Some useful info:

Holidays for private schools in Sindh during 2007

Holiday Number of days taken off

*Summer holidays 75
*Winter vacations 10 (extended to 18 days last year)
*Exams/result preparation 20

Total: 105 (= 15 weeks)

*2-day weekends (Saturday & Sunday) 74

Religious holidays:
*Ashura 2
*Chehlum 1
*Eid milad-un-nabi 1
*Shab-e-Barat 1
*Shab-e-Mairaj 1
*Eid-ul fitr 3
*Eid-ul-Azha 3
Total: 13

Other gazetted holidays:
*Kashmir day (Feb 5) 1
*Pakistan Resolution Day (March 23) 1
*Labour Day (May 1) 1
*Independence Day (August 14) 1
*Quaid death anniversary (Sept 11) 1
*Iqbal's death anniversary (Nov 9) 1
Total: 6

Provincial/local holidays:
*Shah Abdul Latif Bhittai's Urs 1
*Abdullah Shah Ghazi's Urs 2
Total: 3

Unscheduled holidays: 10 (average per year)
Total holidays per year 211 (= approximately 30 weeks)
- Courtesy: Teachers Resource Centre (Dawn)

sumorani

Before leaving everything here, make sure you have found a job there or at least done much of the starting up for ur tech comp. Obviously the easiest way to do any of these things there is if you know people. Also, regardless of the business you're gonna open up just know that bribery will be taken at every step of the way when you're establishing yourself.

And yeh, just listen to the advice people are giving. It is a pretty disturbing political climate there, so I would certainly not move there at least for now.