mo293

Ah more shyt out of indian a$$ I mean mouth... It took an Indian to get rid of goras..... hahahaha what other shyt they teach you in schools sala progeny of habshi ghulam... Do you know slaves also ruled your sorry a$$ for 100 years.

vineshvk

They never tried enough. Its not worth fighting for such a place. They used them anyway to further their objectives in the larger scheme of things and now you can see afghanistan as the most backward place in the whole of Asia.

Faltu

Precisely, they are not. Similiarily Sindhis and Punjabis are not Mongolian-Turk.

Didnt want to hurt that bad !

mo293

Since your ancestors surrendered bharat matha to every tom dick and harry that should make you a concentrated progeny of the same ancestors..


Neither did I..

Shogun Ninjuku

I think this is good observation

deedawar

Well, you chose my selected sentence. Don't know but assume you agreed with other part of my post.

Amyhow, you can give all the credit to british all you want. They did try to invade afghanistan and failed. I wanted to show thst Hindustani in pure form were subjugated and defeated by ANYONE...less in number or more,............... by the foreigners.

You said "they used them anyways"....how??

deedawar

Thank you.

simplyme

Oh ! Sorry it was actually Jinnah who got independence for the country, but do you realise that Jinnah was a pork eating non-practising muslim who spoke about making Pakistan a place where people from all faiths could leave peacefully.

We need some madrassahs desperately so that we can be educated properly.

aam bandha

What is there to conquer in Afghanistan !!!!! And everyone who came into Hindustan first would run over Afghanistan and the enter India .... well that was the route. Infact the first people to be "run "over in Indian peninsula were the peopel livng in present day Pakistan.

Also Persia was run over in 50 years of formation of Islam. A great empire turned to dust ...... people were converted to Islam in a matter of a few years ...... it has been almost 1400 years and Islam was not able to get the same foothold in Indian peninsula. Afghans succumbed to Islam in a very short time. So when you analyse the situation please keep that in mind.


As for conqueres and Hindustan ... well as much you like to think otherwise ... present day Paksitan was also sailing in the same boat. I dont know about muslims in Pakistan, but teh muslims in Arabia were not very happy that they were under the Turks .... fellow muslims , but they still considered them foriegn invaders

Faltu

Afhghanis were overrun by Arabs , after Persia and succumbed to Islam, well offcourse unless you believe angles came down from heaven to convert them.

Try to wipe out those Bamiyan Buddha statues completely before going ahead with propogandabazi. Half baked lies dont sell.

siddhantkumar

dont' know why everyone is fighting. Since Mughals settled in India and considered it as their mather-e-vatan. Also many of Muslims in india and pakistan are result of forceful conversion by Aurangzeb. previously all were hindu/buddhist/Jain. Don't believe... consider mughal brought army of 100,000 (which was not the case as they were few in number but fierce fighters) how can muslim grow to around 400-500 million !! ofcourse conversion helps.
It's like fighting with our own brothers. It was west who divided hindu-muslim of united Bharat for their own profit. British left India b'cos they were near bankrupt by two world wars and could not afford to control growing unrest for independence. So they thought better to divide us on religious line. And it was political decision (fault of neharu, gandhi and Jinna) and 'NOT ALL' muslims and hindu's agreed. Dont agree? muslim's choose to stay in india and few hindu/sikh choose to stay in pakistan. and those who were migrated to west didn't selected any of country as their origin unless they were forced to do so (during 1955-60, i read somewhere can't confirm though)

Tariq Akhtar

Don't know abt real soldiers but the cyber soldiers in GS present the 1000:1 ratio

Sa1eem

I just saw this topic and it seems lot of arguments going on for no reason. Well, this statement 'one Pak soldier is equal to 10 Indian soldiers' is nothing to do with Pakistani being martial race or propaganda for morale boosting. It has basis from Quran with assumption that Pakistani soldiers are Momin (Muslim with complete Iman) and Indian soldiers are not.

Actually, if army consists of Momins then it is obligatory for the army to not flee when facing an army 10 times the size. Though, Allah later lightened this requirement for Muslims and thus it is obligatory for Muslim army that they should not flee when facing army twice their size. The basis for above statement is Quran surah Al-Anfal (8), ayah 65 and 66:

Surah Al-Anfal (8), ayah 65 (for one Momin better than 10 enemies in war):
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding.

[Note: 20 will vanquish 200 ... 100 will vanquish 1000 ... means 1:10]


Surah Al-Anfal (8), ayah 66 (for one Muslim better than 2 enemies in war):
YUSUFALI: For the present, Allah hath lightened your (task), for He knoweth that there is a weak spot in you: But (even so), if there are a hundred of you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred, and if a thousand, they will vanquish two thousand, with the leave of Allah: for Allah is with those who patiently persevere.

[Note: 100 will vanquish 200 ... 1000 will vanquish 2000 ... means 1:2]


Above ayahs mean that a Momin would never flee even when facing 10 times the number (or even more) and would hope to win, as his iman being complete would have complete trust on Allah. On the other hand, if a Muslim flee facing an army more than twice the size than it is acceptable (not sin ... as Allah has lightened his commitment), though it is obligatory for a Muslim to have faith and hope for win, and not to flee facing enemy twice the size.

slick_star

go get a life.
im more than happy to come to your face and saying that too you....and then belt the **** out of you for being so stupid and thick.


grow up.

simplyme

Oh ! God What do they teach you in your Madrassahs. Let me help you understand what you have written.

1) You state that it is obligatory for the army to not flee when facing an army 10 times the size. Why the limitation. If God is for us, who can be against us. Essentially you are saying that the power of Allah would work if the equation was 10:1.

2) After sometime Allah realised that 10 was too huge a number and decided that his power would work only if the army is twice the size. Why the sudden change in mind.

It helps to think before you ink...

simplyme

Oh ! God What do they teach you in your Madrassahs. Let me help you understand what you have written.

1) You state that it is obligatory for the army to not flee when facing an army 10 times the size. Why the limitation. If God is for us, who can be against us. Essentially you are saying that the power of Allah would work if the equation was 10:1.

2) After sometime Allah realised that 10 was too huge a number and decided that his power would work only if the army is twice the size. Why the sudden change in mind.

It helps to think before you ink...

Sa1eem

You are right 'It helps to think before you ink'. But most unfortunate thing about you is that even though you said it, still you did not think before you inked. Now, because of you, I have to write again .

Before you wrote you should have thought that you are unbeliever, as questioning Quran is sign of being unbeliever. Now, according to Quran, unbelievers could not understand words from Quran neither Quran is guidance for unbelievers, because there is disease in their heart that keeps increasing because of ignorance. Here is quote from Quran for unbelievers.

Surah Bakrah (2), ayah 2-10:

Who Quran is for (ayah 2-5)?:
[2: 2-5]: This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah; Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them; And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter. They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.

Note: Above ayahs are for believers. As for non-Muslims, they are misguided and many are non-Muslims because of circumstances (they were born as such). Amongst them also there are believers and unbelievers, so when they listen or read Quran, if they are believers, they recognise the truth in Quran, and Quran guides them too ... because, in reality they are believers though due to circumstances, they are not Muslim. Those non-Muslims who are unbelievers, their reaction would be same as unbeliever Muslims about whom Allah has mentioned as rejecter of faith who could be non-Muslims (ayah 6-7) and Muslims (Ayah 8-10).

Now, how about people who are unbelievers (ayah 6-7)?
[2: 6-7]: As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe. Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).

How about Muslim unbelievers (ayah 8-10)?
[2: 8-10]: Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe. Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not! In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).

Is it worth wasting time on unbelievers (ayah 16-18)?
Actually, it is waste of time to explain anything to unbelievers, as according to Quran, these people have bartered guidance for misguidance and thus it is futile to explain to them, as they are deaf, dumb and blind [Surah(2), Ayah 16-18].

[2: 16-18]: These are they who have bartered Guidance for error: But their traffic is profitless, and they have lost true direction. Their similitude is that of a man who kindled a fire; when it lighted all around him, Allah took away their light and left them in utter darkness. So they could not see. Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path).


Anyhow, for those who really want to understand the mystery of 10:1 and 2:1 numerical disadvantage in war situation.
First thing a believing Muslim recognises is that, worldly success is immaterial. Allah has created this world on obvious and when any help comes from Allah in this world, these help comes in subtle ways, not in obvious ways. Allah has created this world as world of 'Jawaz (reasons)', not world of 'Muajjazaat (miracles)'.

Further, there is no need for Allah to interfere in worldly affairs and its obvious outcomes, as it is Allah who controls all worldly outcomes and makes it follow logical reasons. So to believe that Allah would interfere (or need to interfere) in obvious way, itself means that outcome was happening against the wish/will of Allah (in other words, Allah being not in control of the outcomes), and such beliefs is ridiculous. Only unbelievers would have such believes. So, what is this 10:1 and 2:1 figure?

Well, 10:1 is figurative. It means, regardless of number of opponents, a Momin would stand and would never flee. A Momin who believes on Allah, his jihad (fight) is not for victory or defeat but for sake of Allah, regardless of worldly victory or defeat. For such person, victory is guaranteed as he would be Ghazi or would die as Shaheed. Nevertheless, it does not mean that with 10:1 disadvantage (or even more), a Momin has to lose as there are occasions when Allah has given success to people regardless of numbers, even when disadvantage of numbers was 10:1 or even more.

On the other hand, people with lesser Imaan see obvious outcomes. For these Muslims, worldly outcomes are very important and as they lack complete Imaan, their fear of opponents' numerical advantage is understandable. Nevertheless, fight for Muslim against unbelievers is test of Imaan. Thus, if Muslim facing unbelievers would have even little bit of Imaan, they should show it on battle field. It means, not running away when facing an enemy regardless of numerical size. Though being Muslim with low Imaan, their Imaan can falter in such situations. Hence, Allah has made it clear that to succeed in test when facing unbelievers, a Muslim Imaan would be acceptable as long as that Muslim do not flee when facing unbelievers twice the number. But if a Muslim run away even when numbers are twice or less, then it would show that the Muslim that ran away has no imaan or unacceptably low Imaan.

VetriVelan

Why are you espousing all ^ about religion when the question is about Indian and Pakistan soldiers?

md_minhas

Man, so much shout about the ratio! I am a Minhas(Rajput) from the Punjab region of Pakistan and I am new to the forum and I realized so much time and effort is wasted in comparing the marital skills and physical strengths of Pakistanis vs. Indians. The reason Field Marshal made that point was that because the army back then largely consisted of the Punjabis and Pashtuns- Western Punjabis are taller and stronger than Eastern Punjabis or Sikhs. Pashtuns are Aryans- hence the Pakistani army is wayyyyy stronger. If there were no guns and Pakistan-India wars were traditionally fought on horses and swords, Pakistani army would defeat Indian army in hours if not minutes. Indian guppies, I would invite you to visit West Pakistan see the quality of people yourself. How come Pakistan defeated India in 3 wars? We lost '71 because of the treachery of East Pakistan.

kamraj

So, according to you Pakistani army is made of horses and their marital skills are far better? Read before posting

ps: just joking, nobody take punga please

md_minhas

I just meant that Pakistanis are physically stronger than the Indians.. look at our records vis-a-vis hockey and Cricket..

kamraj

the good old brain vs brawn thingee

imnindian

There is so much abt what Allah said, I respect the holy.

Bust please just enlighten me how does it applies only to Pak only after 1947 and not the prior muslims.

Before 1947 they were equal and after 15th aug a dose of potency injection given to one side and impotency to other by the omnipotent Suddenly P soldiers became X10 when shamed at Kargil blamed it to cross border media.

Just look at your Mush now where he stands D hero disgraced!!! D grade hero liar just ask the family of soldiers died fighting for Pak during Kargil even the bodies gone to dogs what a marytrdom

Now dont tell me that these Mullah controls this potency stuff yearwise!!!!!

Phil haal to US Gaa_ mein ghusa hai sabki.