Khehkeshan

I knew of one incident in which a FC soldier (or was it a tribal khasadar?) killed a US soldier and was killed, but didn't know of the other. Which also raises the question of how much the FC helps the Taliban or looks the other way at the least.

http://www.dawn.com/2008/06/14/top6.htm
FC incapable of fighting insurgents: US general


By Our Correspondent


WASHINGTON, June 13: A US general on Friday accused the Frontier Corps of shooting American military personnel during border meetings and said the force is incapable of fighting insurgents.

Gen Dan McNeill, who commanded Nato forces in Afghanistan till June 3, said attacks on Nato and Afghan soldiers, will never stop unless the Pakistani military steps up its efforts to fight these insurgents.

“My understanding of what the Frontier Corps is, is they are pretty much tribals themselves,” he told journalists at the Pentagon. “They might find it more challenging than would regular frontline, well-trained, well-equipped and well-led soldiers” to fight insurgents.

The general recalled two incidents involving members of the Frontier Corps who allegedly “assassinated” two American military personnel.

“Well, if I live to be as old as Methuselah, I’ll be forever scarred by one event that occurred, and that was the assassination -- and I don’t have a better expression for it -- of Major Wesley Bauguess, a fine officer of the 82nd Airborne Division, spring of last year,” he said.

Gen McNeill claimed that at the end of a border meeting between Pakistani and US military officials, “when everybody was gathering to leave, then Major Bauguess was shot down by a member of the Frontier Corps, who, himself, was immediately shot down by an American soldier.”

In another incident in December 2002, a first sergeant of the US Army was shot in the neck by a Frontier Corps man during a meeting at the border near Angooradda.

Gen McNeill said it would not be fair to “pick a few anecdotes” to indict the entire Frontier Corps but he believed that the Pakistani government would be better off relying on their regular troops than the FC.

The US general claimed that the current political situation in Pakistan was delaying meetings between the Pakistani military and Nato and Afghan officials for discussing the border situation.

“There were three different delays coming from the Pakistani side that caused the meeting to continue to be pushed to the right. The last one should have occurred the last two weeks I was there. And I spoke with General Kayani on the phone, and he found it too difficult,” he said.

“And why did he find it too difficult? I’m only offering conjecture here. He didn’t offer me the reasons. I think because of a very difficult political situation in his country he was finding it difficult.”

Gen McNeill said some in Afghanistan argued that there was a level of dysfunction as Pakistan transitioned from one government to the other.

“I don’t think that the head of the Pakistani military was necessarily trying to avoid these talks.

“I think he found himself in a tough domestic situation, and I think he believed that that required more of his focus than the dialogue he would have.”

pak-one

So why is the FC involved then? Why is Musharraf, who you support, not sending in a division or two to sort out the 'problematic natives'? What is he afraid of? Where is that fabled offensive that you supported some months back?

See I can play your jackal-snide game too.

Khehkeshan

The FC is the traditional force in the province, that's why it's involved. I'm surprised you don't these simple facts. The fact that it has been ineffective is not new news. The army has done a little better, but also not that well partly because of lack of will and any sustained policy or direction. Many offensives have happened, in case you missed the Swat operations. It's the follow through due to lack of political will that lets the jihadi taliban get back in after the army pulls out. Obviously the new "peace" deals by the PPP and ANP govnts will only make things worse in the long run.

In case, you missed it, Mush is not the only one giving orders in Pakistan. And if he supports peace deals himself, he is wrong as well. Your "game" isn't going to well.

pak-one

Hah done 'a lot better?' give me a break. Any Army of a Muslim nation that goes in and attacks their own countrymen at the behest of the US will never succeed.

Lets just just say that my knowledge of FC/XI Corps goes well beyond yours, O' armchair general sitting in Karachi.

Khehkeshan

That statement is taken right from a jihadi training manual. It seems you are pro-jihadi and do approve of suicide bombings and also want the mindless jihad of the Taliban to be Pakistan's foreign policy even if it will bring Iraq's fate to Pakistan. Good to know where you stand.

An why just "say", why don't you tell us your great knowledge about FC?

pak-one

No, I am explaining the mindset and the reality of Pakistan as a Muslim state. By sitting extrapolating that I support suicide bombings (when I do not), support the Taliban, is just a part of your consistent lies.

Pakistan is in this mess because of its continued support for the misguided "War on Terror" being waged by the US. Musharraf/Karzai are both American stooges that will lead their nations to irreparable harm.

Pakistan, much like the Euro/Australian 'coalition partners' needs to pull out of this mess. Talking with the fighters is the first good step. We don't need to engage the jihadist groups...Not in our interest to fight our people.

Khehkeshan

Pakisatn is in this mess because of jihadi terrorism. Period.

vigoratus

And wrong policies over a period of time.

Khehkeshan

Which spawned these jihadis.

pak-one

The wrong policies preceded the formation of these fighter. So it is clear that we need the right policies to bring them back into our fold. Our governments (both past and present) must stop serving their Amriki masters and start working to repair the damage.

Afghanistan will be under Taliban control sooner or later. Compared to other governments in power, the Taliban represented Pakhtun interests and were closely aligned with Pakistan. I don't want any conflicts on the Pak-Afghan border, ever.

Khehkeshan

You can't bring rabid dogs into any fold. Once the monster is created, you try and kill it. Doesn't matter if America becomes Taliban's ally tomorrow or not. The Taliban represents terrorist wahabi interest, not pashtun interest. Thinking this is your first mistake. And if you don't want conflict in the region, violent groups like the taliban will have to be dismantled.

pak-one

Will you fight them personally? YES or NO response is all that I need.

The Taliban may be supported by wahabists, but in terms of governance or politics they have used Pakhtun nationalism in Afghanistan to dominate the country. Please don't tell me what you think might be the case, because you hardly know political nuances of the situation. Talibans seats of power have been Pakhtun areas, now in your sheer brilliance, I am certain that you are going to say that all Pakhtuns are wahabis/deobandis right?

Khehkeshan

Thanks to PPP govnt?

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...9-6-2008_pg1_9

US deliberately targeted Pakistani forces’

* Pakistan Army threatening to postpone training of its troops by US in counter-insurgency

By Khalid Hasan

WASHINGTON: “This is the first time the United States has deliberately targeted co-operating Pakistani forces,” Jehangir Karamat, a former Pakistan army chief and ambassador to Washington, has been quoted as telling the New York Times, referring to a US air raid on a border post in the Mohmand Agency.

Karamat said, “There has been no statement by the US that this was ‘friendly fire’ and that the intention was not to target Pakistani forces.”

Training programme: The newspaper quoted two Pakistani officials from Islamabad as saying the Pakistani military was so angry over the American airstrikes last week that it was threatening to postpone or cancel an American programme to train a Pakistani paramilitary force in counterinsurgency tactics to be used for combating militants.

The report said some Pakistani officials were convinced that the Americans had deliberately fired on their military, killing 11 men from the very paramilitary force the Americans want to train, an accusation the Americans deny. There has been no word of regret or apology from the Pentagon.

The US military has said the airstrikes were carried out in self-defence against militants who had attacked American forces in Afghanistan and then fled into Pakistan. But the Pakistanis continue to dispute important parts of the American account.

Ending or delaying the programme, which is already under way, would deny the US what little leverage it has in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas to combat a rising number of cross-border attacks from Pakistan into Afghanistan, the paper said.

The newspaper said the fury over the airstrikes was such that Pakistan Army chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, who the Americans hoped would be a dependable successor to President Pervez Musharraf, had personally approved an unusually strong statement last week from the Pakistani military, which called the strikes “cowardly and unprovoked”.

General Kayani has refused every suggestion of letting American forces operate in the FATA, even on an advisory basis, American officials have said. A plan for American trainers to accompany Pakistani troops on missions to root out insurgents in FATA was ruled out completely, a senior Pakistani military official said.

The plan for American military advisers to instruct Pakistani trainers, who would in turn train Frontier Corps units in counterinsurgency tactics, was accepted by General Kayani as a “light-footed” alternative, American officials have said.

A Pakistani government official told the New York Times, “Pakistan thinks you have screwed up in Afghanistan and made Pakistan the fall-guy.”

Khehkeshan

Political nuances? Like burning girls schools, suicide bombings, summary beheadings etc, this is what you want as the future for Pushtuns in the 21st century? If you think this is Pushtun culture great for, but you see these cross border attacks pose a threat for ALL of Pakistan, not just your ghair illaqa.

And will I fight them personally? No. Will you fight the US personally? That's a silly question to ask. The half a million army is not for decoration, neither is the US war machine.

iPundit

pak-man, all u'r posts shows u'r frustration...why can't u respect any other persons perspective and interpretation of a thing...

Get smart

Two major policies and one other fact led to the creation and unholy marriage between Pakistan and the jihadi monsters:

* Pakistan's design to fight a proxy war in India by creating an atmosphere of fear and distrust in Kashmir - the jihadis were only too glad to cross the border and a lob a few grenades into kindergartens every other day, conveniently putting aside the fellow-human and fellow-muslim ideals for a few bucks

* Pakistan's design to acquire a 'deep presence' inside Afghanistan which led to grabbing a few tigers by the tail

* Pakistan's internal inability to put together a balanced working relationship with the religious crowd

PaRtyGuyz

I think your comments are irrelevant to this thread, i think GET SMART, you are here for a purpose to dis Pakistan. My Friendly suggestion is to either make sense or move on to some other forum.

Get smart

na PartyG...I'm here to discuss and help.

What part of my analysis (#16) do you disagree with? Would you prefer to be told Pakistan is doing great even if it is failing?

PaRtyGuyz

for an argument sake, if Pakistan is failing, wht do u care? by the end of the day u r one busted & junky indian...on the other hand we cud donate u to FC so they can do some Target practice..n kill sum indian Losers!

Shogun Ninjuku

spot on dude!

ps: are you Pakistani or Indian?

bigdaddy

FC should get training from U.S in fighting militancy. The training U.S gave to Iraqis seems to have turned their country into Switzerland.

It is a well known fact that the part of the world in question will not change their ways... be it the FC, regular Pak army or the western coalition. The best path forward is what U.S ended up using in Iraq which is negotiation with rival groups, understanding of complex issues on both sides. These dumb U.S generals seem to have no learning curve and are once again following the failed strategy of being in bed with thugs from Northern Alliance - who are taking them on a wild goose chase. Shias in Iraq did the same for a long time and turned that country into a hell hole. It is unfortunate that even the top U.S military brass is proving itself to nothing more than tobacco chewing dimwits from bible belt.

Shogun Ninjuku

But seriously, do you think it is lack of quality training or unwillingness? I think it s the latter

yes

burqaposhx

Islamists propaganda on this board and in Pak media is spread by those who have no recollection of tribal area's history.

Wazirastan and other tribal area inhabitants do not and cannot live in civilized manner. That's why they go through self-professed Jihad every 50 or so years.

There are reasons why they call tribal area as "Federally Administered Tribal Area" or FATA.

Islamists do not know that FATA residents are lawless bunch of dimwits who belong to a time that has passed away some 1000 years ago.

Islamists do not know that FATA residents cannot be controlled by Urban Pashtoons. Otherwise Pashtoons who rule Peshawar based provincial government would be able to control these primitive bunch. They can't and that's why the cycle of mindless violence repeats itself in the FATA area.

Islamists want to make it as if Americans are responsible for the following gang fights in the FATA land.

1. Khyber agency's gang war between Magal Bagh and Jangal Bagh
2. Kurram Agency's gang war between Shia and Sunni gangs
3. Jandola's recent gangland killing of 20+ members of one gang that was perceived as pro-government in the eyes of the opposing gang.

These gang wars are similar to the gang wars in Liyari area of Karachi.


But Islamists ignore all that gangsta rap and accuse the West. This is typical of the Islamists. They themselves feed off of gangs and try to destroy law enforcement agencies.

This is high time that we pull out the FC men and move all the civilians within 20 miles of Afghan border to vacant lands in Balochistan, Sindh, Punjab and Frontier.

Then declare 20 miles wide belt to be no man's land. After that any tribal found on either side of the border within 20 miles should be bombed from the sky or land.

You will see that the gang war will end and FATA will become civilized in a short order.

Off course the gang buster bombs should be followed by development of modern infrastructure and political reforms in FATA.

FATA should be LACA "Locally Administered Civilized Area". This can be accomplished by declaring the LACA area to be a separate province or provinces.

A combination of military action and political and economic reforms is the only way forward. Otherwise we will continue getting attacked by the uncouth tribals.

kaka_in_usa

Well didnt wanna open another thread for this. FC surrenders without a bullet fired. They need to be called back to assist police and send army over there..

Militants in Hangu loot, blow up FC fort -DAWN - Top Stories; July 15, 2008

Militants in Hangu loot, blow up FC fort



By Abdul Sami Paracha


KOHAT, July 14: Militants blew up a Frontier Constabulary fort in the Shinawarai area of Hangu district on Monday night after looting arms and ammunition.

Witnesses said that about 250 militants had besieged the fort, 30kms from Hangu town, and asked FC personnel to vacate it or face action.

After some time, the personnel decided to leave the fort. They were given ‘safe passage’ by the assailants.The militants entered the fort and loaded their vehicles with arms and ammunition. “Later, they planted explosives in the fort and blew it up,” a local man said.

Hangu district has experienced a spate of terrorist attacks over the past two days since the arrest of seven local Taliban.

Meanwhile, a driver who survived Saturday’s attack on a FC convoy in Hangu has nominated in the FIR six people who, according to him, had taken FC personnel to militants under a conspiratorial plan.

Fifteen FC men were killed in the ambush.Hangu district SSP Mohammad Idrees told Dawn on Monday that an influential political figure was behind the conspiracy. He said the politician, who commanded several gangs of kidnappers, professional assassins and fugitives, had been active in the area for 20 years.

Those nominated in the FIR are Syed Mahmood, an Afghan refugee, Jan Akbar, Subedar Sayed Baz, Miral Khan, Shah Nawaz and Syedullah.

The SSP said that army and police personnel had launched an operation in Zargari, Naryab and Tora Warai areas to trace the culprits.

Artillery from Doaba pounded hills between Orakzai Agency and Hangu district.

He said the commander of 73-brigade had been appointed incharge of the field operation and security forces would work under his command.

Witnesses said artillery fires had frightened locals. They said two bombs hit the Naryab Dam which was not damaged. Any damage to the dam would have caused a large-scale destruction, they said.

Meanwhile,