Pakistan started the 1965 war

saregamapa · Sep 15th, 2009, 06:03 AM

What did Pakistan gain by starting the 1965 war? It is no surprise that generations of Pakistanis continue to believe that India was the aggressor and that one Pakistani soldier was equal to 10 Indian soldiers. But the truth is Pakistan started the 1965 war. Kargil war was also started by Pakistan.

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Former national security adviser Mahmood Ali Durrani has said that the Indian Army crossed the international border to launch full-fledged war against Pakistan in 1965 because “low-level skirmishes were started from this side”.

“We started the intrusions on the borders, and I think we should think about the Indian response at that time,” said Durrani while talking to Daily Times Editor-in-Chief Najam Sethi on his Dunya News programme on Sunday. He said the high-level military command was not involved in “a strategy to disturb India”, but politicians knew about what was happening along the border. He said then foreign affairs minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto also had no idea that India would cross the international border.

Durrani said he had participated in two wars, and “I now think Pakistan did not achieve anything from these wars”.

“We should extend [a hand of] friendship towards India, and start peace talks to settle disputes,” he said.

Durrani said former US secretary of state Condoleezza Rice had arranged negotiations between Pervez Musharraf and Benazir Bhutto. He said he was “very sad” over Benazir’s assassination in Rawalpindi.

Durrani said he accepted President Asif Ali Zardari’s invitation to join his government as the national security adviser after taking Musharraf into confidence. He said he had floated an idea in India that the neighbours should soften their visa regimes, but the Indians had some “security-related reservations”.

Durrani, also a former ambassador to the US, said there had only been speculation about Israeli and Indian involvement in Ziaul Haq’s plane crash. He also rejected the statement by former president Ghulam Ishaq Khan that the presidential plane was blown up in the air. He said Zia’s plane was destroyed while landing.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

hollowman · Sep 15th, 2009, 09:11 AM

now Pakistanis will make Ali Durrani a RAW Agent, yeh to gayo re

mo293 · Sep 15th, 2009, 06:44 PM

Paki and Chini started all the wars India won all... hapy now....

Punjabee in USA · Sep 16th, 2009, 09:53 AM

^ Tsk..tsk...I know it hurts to have the former NSA of Pak saying what India has been saying all along.

Time to get your head out of the sand...

Spock · Sep 16th, 2009, 10:41 AM

Kukri never sank either? A chinese pebble prolly hit it and it went down sinking in embarrassment

Punjabee in USA · Sep 16th, 2009, 11:10 AM

^ We are still discussing 1965 war, and you have moved on to 1971 ?

Anyways, a lot of things happened in 1971 - including Gen Niazi surrendering to Gen JS Aurora and India taking 93,000 Pakistani POWs

FrozenFire · Sep 16th, 2009, 04:28 PM

why do we not believe that one Pakistani solider was equal to ten indian soldiers? People like M.M. Aalam ( destroying 9 jets in a minute ).., Major Aziz Bhatti and others who didnt let Indian army enter Lahore and destroyed their tanks by putting bombs on their chests.. why do i not believe it when my father's cousin was amongst one of the many civilians who got shahadat to save Pakistan?

As gen.Ayub Khan said " hindustani qaum ko shayad ye maalum nahi, ke unhon ne kis qaum ko lalkaara hai ".

Spock · Sep 16th, 2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punjabee in USA

^ We are still discussing 1965 war, and you have moved on to 1971 ?

Anyways, a lot of things happened in 1971 - including Gen Niazi surrendering to Gen JS Aurora and India taking 93,000 Pakistani POWs

Whatever happened, a submarine taking out a frieghter just shows what a lousy navy you guys were running LOL! I mean how many submarines have actually done that before hangur, maybe one in the world war LOL! I heard the yateem commander of the vessel was so ashamed he drowned with the vessel, though some people say he couldnt even figure out how to put his life vest on! hahahaha I think for a while India even denied kukri's sinking!

Spock · Sep 16th, 2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrozenFire

why do we not believe that one Pakistani solider was equal to ten indian soldiers? People like M.M. Aalam ( destroying 9 jets in a minute ).., Major Aziz Bhatti and others who didnt let Indian army enter Lahore and destroyed their tanks by putting bombs on their chests.. why do i not believe it when my father's cousin was amongst one of the many civilians who got shahadat to save Pakistan?

As gen.Ayub Khan said " hindustani qaum ko shayad ye maalum nahi, ke unhon ne kis qaum ko lalkaara hai ".

Oh and a little submarine taking out two BIGASS indian frieghters from beneath creating a world record, dont forget that, because in iloon ko kaafi mirch lagti hai yeh cheezain sun kar.

Arleitter · Sep 17th, 2009, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punjabee in USA

^ We are still discussing 1965 war, and you have moved on to 1971 ?

Anyways, a lot of things happened in 1971 - including Gen Niazi surrendering to Gen JS Aurora and India taking 93,000 Pakistani POWs

And `eath' of their their Ghazi

aam bandha · Sep 17th, 2009, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrozenFire

As gen.Ayub Khan said " hindustani qaum ko shayad ye maalum nahi, ke unhon ne kis qaum ko lalkaara hai ".

To bhai ab to bata do ke hamne kisko lalkara tha ..... kunko jinko 71 main lalkara tha woh to ladne say mana kar gaye

Spock · Sep 17th, 2009, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arleitter

And `eath' of their their Ghazi

Ghazi did what she had to, and fell trap to its own mines... The poor Indian yateem navy couldnt get her, which is why they denied the American request to recover it from the sea, because the truth would come out... Buzdil kaheen key...

aam bandha · Sep 18th, 2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

Ghazi did what she had to, and fell trap to its own mines... The poor Indian yateem navy couldnt get her, which is why they denied the American request to recover it from the sea, because the truth would come out... Buzdil kaheen key...

It is sheer incompetence on part of the subs captian that led to sinking ..... as for buzdil ...... hmmm who gave up in the middle of the fight

Punjabee in USA · Sep 18th, 2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

Ghazi did what she had to, and fell trap to its own mines... The poor Indian yateem navy couldnt get her, which is why they denied the American request to recover it from the sea, because the truth would come out... Buzdil kaheen key...

So the crew of PNS Ghazi realized they couldn't face Indian naval might and decided to commit "harakiri"

mo293 · Sep 18th, 2009, 11:51 AM

A lil excerpt worth reading, quite oppoiste to what they teach Indians in schools.

There weren’t any asked elsewhere either. Every single army general even remotely connected with the war effort was decorated, including the Strike Corps commander in the Sialkot sector who did not cover five miles in 15 days. Chowdhury himself was cast as some kind of a swadeshi Rommel, though he never got within shouting distance of the war. And even the then naval chief was decorated though his fleet remained firmly in harbour, failing to stir out even after the Pakistanis cockily pounded Dwarka.

aam bandha · Sep 18th, 2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mo293

A lil excerpt worth reading, quite oppoiste to what they teach Indians in schools.

There weren’t any asked elsewhere either. Every single army general even remotely connected with the war effort was decorated, including the Strike Corps commander in the Sialkot sector who did not cover five miles in 15 days. Chowdhury himself was cast as some kind of a swadeshi Rommel, though he never got within shouting distance of the war. And even the then naval chief was decorated though his fleet remained firmly in harbour, failing to stir out even after the Pakistanis cockily pounded Dwarka.

Well at atleast they made 5 kms into enemy territory .... even though one Pakistani was equal to 10 Indians

Ayub's objective was "liberation" of Kashmir in 1965 .... and on the second day of fighting he was running for cover. Pakistan was luck that at that time India was governed by people who did not belive in extending the fight . In '71 Indira showed what India can do and it took all of 14 days to bring the Pakistani army to its knees .... that my friend is history ......

Coming to Dwaraka ..... it was a total of 4 mintues of shelling into an area of no consequence .... the only casulty of this shelling was a cow ....... and then they ran away like cowards ......only to celebrate this day as Navy day

It is another matter the main port of Karachi was bombarded and burned for a number of days during 71 war .... but then you would not know about it .... or do you

Punjabee in USA · Sep 18th, 2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mo293

...even after the Pakistanis cockily pounded Dwarka.

Quote:

On the night of September 7 Pakistan Navy launched its assault on Western Indian shores. Dwarka was chosen for its proximity, (200 km from Karachi Port) relatively less guarded port and historical relevance. The plan called for a fleet of 7 naval vessels of Pakistan to bomb the tiny town of Dwarka. It was aimed at luring the major ships anchored in Bombay to attack the Pakistan ships. The intention was that the submarine PNS Ghazi lurking in the Arabian Sea would then take out the Indian ships. Accordingly a fleet of seven ships comprising PNS Babur, PNS Khaibar, PNS Badr, PNS Jahangir, PNS Alamgir, PNS Shahjahan and PNS Tipu Sultan set sail for Dwarka and bombed the tiny town. None of the primary objectives were achieved. The radar installations were not destroyed.[1]
Indian Navy's official version states that at around 2355 hours, the Pakistani vessels fired over the main temple of Dwarka for more than 20 minutes. The ships fired around 50 shells each, which included some 5.25 inch rounds fired by the Pak cruiser Babur. It adds that most of the shells fell between the temple and the railway station, which lay 3 km from the lighthouse. No building was seriously damaged, with only the Railway Guest House suffering some minor damages. Some of the unexploded shells were also recovered intact.
Pakistan claimed that the operation was a significant one, even celebrating September 8 as "Victory Day" by Pakistan Navy !. Authors like Lorne John Kavic and Lowell Dittmer have noted that both Indian and Pakistani navies played no significant roles and that the "insignificant bombardment"[2] of the town was a "limited engagement, with no strategic value."[3]

Interestingly, the shells used by Pakistan navy bore the mark "INDIAN ORDNANCE"; these were dated from the 1940s - period before the Partition of India and creation of Pakistan

It turned out that the Indian ammunition was LOYAL to India. None of them exploded to harm its country.

Operation Dwarka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

mo293 · Sep 18th, 2009, 03:07 PM

^ Wiki, WOW... what a great source, what next, your duds were spectacular success like your govt claimed 11 years ago.. LOL...

mo293 · Sep 18th, 2009, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aam bandha

Well at atleast they made 5 kms into enemy territory .... even though one Pakistani was equal to 10 Indians

Ayub's objective was "liberation" of Kashmir in 1965 .... and on the second day of fighting he was running for cover. Pakistan was luck that at that time India was governed by people who did not belive in extending the fight . In '71 Indira showed what India can do and it took all of 14 days to bring the Pakistani army to its knees .... that my friend is history ......

Coming to Dwaraka ..... it was a total of 4 mintues of shelling into an area of no consequence .... the only casulty of this shelling was a cow ....... and then they ran away like cowards ......only to celebrate this day as Navy day

It is another matter the main port of Karachi was bombarded and burned for a number of days during 71 war .... but then you would not know about it .... or do you

Did you ever had tea at Lahore gymkhana?

aam bandha · Sep 18th, 2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mo293

^ Wiki, WOW... what a great source, what next, your duds were spectacular success like your govt claimed 11 years ago.. LOL...

Why which part of the information from this source do you have a problem with ......

As for 11 years back .... Pakistan was lucky to have Nawaz Sharief as PM who went all the way to US and saved "the dignity" of the armed forces of Pakistan .... his quote .... if you want will show from "Indeopendent sources"