Spock

Actually, its more like 10 crores and above, and you can mark off E-7 from the list, its way more than that

However, not all the sectors went like that. What Musharraf did was basically embezzlement, because he obtained this farmhouse illegally. This was not meant to be allocated for residential purposes.
Now you have his chief architect trying to legitimize the whole thing and saying he CJ was wrong when he prosecuted him. If he was wrong, then why did you have to oust him Musharraf?

mAd_ScIeNtIsT

In a 2003 article attacking Musharraf for not paying enough tax, even the PPP conceded that in the 1999-2000 tax year (which was the first year Musharraf, as Chief Executive, voluntarily declared all his assets - somethign Zardari still won't do), Musharraf's assets exceeded 30-40 million rupees.

Now given the post 9/11 rise in property prices, imagine how much more that land would be worth.

http://www.ppp.org.pk/dfc.html#Gen.%20Musharraf%20paid%20only%20$12%20as %20Wealth%20Tax%20in%20Six%20Years

And finally when he did pay wealth tax in 1999-2000 on his assets worth much more than Rs 30-40 million in the market (or over half a million US dollars), he coughed up only Rs 710 or $12.

The information from the PPP's document above eliminates the need for speculation - it confirms that Musharraf's property holdings were more than enough to finance the 30 million rupee purchase of his new house in 2003.

Spock

I wonder why he lied in his speech calling himself a 'middle class' ka admi. I think he should join the MQM, seriously, he fits right in there with the other thugs.

GoldenAsif

True but Spock is it really that dear (Rs 10 crores per canal of land) in F-7, F-8 and E-8 sectors?


I do get your point but some people say similar things about Imran Khan's farm house near Rawal Dam - Bani Gala where Dr AQ Khan has a sprawling house as well, you can actually see it from the impressive newly-built Lake-view park in Islamabad. Now AQ may be a national hero but he was also mighty corrupt!! In the video you posted recently that shmuck Babar Awan was accusing Imran of usurping 8.5km of farm land which is a complete lie. Imran does have a farm house in Bani Gala but he does not own the god damn place. We all know he comes from a well-to-do if not mega-rich family so he could probably afford to buy one....not to mention he made some money during his 21-year long glittereing international career. Just for the record was this farm land gifted to Imran after WC glory in 1992 or did he actually buy it?

bob_chasm

When cities grow, areas that were once farm lands often get convereted to residential areas. This is to be expected and infact the reason many of us buy rural properties. There isnt a sahih hadith or verse in the Quran that says these areas will not become suburbia. These were policies instituted by Gen. Yahya Khan 30 years earlier. However, Islamabad is a different place now. There is a shortage of residential properties in the capital. Things would be even more expensive if the farms were not converted to residential use. In this case, once again, it wasnt just Musharraf and his farm that benefitted when the lands were converted from rural to suburban use. Many people who owned lands in chak Shezad benefitted. This is the difference between making money by embezzling funds from goverment contracts and land development.

Secondly let me point out that that Musharraf's dad had a house in F8 long before Musharraf became a General. In addition Musharrafs brother was working as a doctor in the USA since the 70s. So the family would have had a lot of money to buy properties in Pakistan thru the 80s, 90s and early 2000 at discounted miliatry prices. Is it possible that non secular, hardline sharia following radicals in Pakistan are conducting a witch hunt in revenge for his policies against them?

Spock

Thanks for bringing in the 'religious' angle to the post for no reason Musharraf is no saint, he embezzled and as a result he and his top lieutenants, including his little pooch Shaukat Aziz got these farmhouses. Why do you think the Supreme Court took this case for a hearing then? We actually have proof unlike the speculations you are presenting. As for your new theory about him getting money from his brothers and sisters, there are ways to check that. You cannot just expect his brother to send him fat checks to Pakistan to buy property, just like that. Also, the army isnt that saintly either, they take over land through extortion and thuggerish manners too. Someone here suggested he had 'wealthy children'. Lets see now, he has two kids, and lets just rule out the possibility that he gets money from his married daughter (though he did get money by selling Pakistanis ), leaving his son, who has worked for Watson Wyatt Worldwide from 2000-2005, and now works for ePlanet Ventures (2008-present), so we can rule him out too. Another thing that we are forgetting that he was a very lavish spender. The mujra sessions in the Army House, the hefty fee paid to lawyers to defend his unconstituitional actions, the learjets, his personal bookselling tour at the expense of the nation, all of this cost alot of money too.

mAd_ScIeNtIsT

People's class identity is about how they were raised, not how much money they have. Tony Blair's wife Cherie Booth identified herself as working class despite being a wealthy lawyer, because she was raised in a working class family. You can give a beggar on the street $5 million and that won't make him upper class, he wouldn't act upper class or fit in with upper class people.

Spock

I see, so we can use the same logic to justify Altaf Hussain's middle class stature too, right?

mAd_ScIeNtIsT

Pakistan's Supreme court has a nasty habit of political activism, more so than supreme courts in other countries.

At any rate, your additional questions to bob_chasm are negated by the PP article I posted, which demosntrated that at the very start of his rule he already owned more than enough assets to purchase this property in 2003.

Which then leaves the incorrect zoning issue. Let's start by hearing your case that he should not have been able to buy this property for housing.

mAd_ScIeNtIsT

Can he act upper class? Or he is someone from a lower class pretending to be upper class?

Spock

He is third class

As for Musharraf, his lavish lifestyle, tennis, squash sessions, him lifting and walking his groomed poodles (im sure you must have seen the picture), cigars, scotch and whiskey, is HARDLY reflective of his so called middle class lifestyle.

mAd_ScIeNtIsT

No, he's trying to live an upper class lifestyle. As I mentioned, class is determined by upbringing, not by money or behaviour.

Spock

So, in the last 8-9 years, which by the way is what matters, he led a very glamorous and luxurious upper class lifestyle. Those 8-9 years was what his speech encompassed. So that just proves my point, thank you.

Spock

My case? In case you didnt know, it was already pending a trial at a Supreme Court, before the dictator imposed the emergency. Now if you will label the supreme court as 'political activists' just because they werent Mushy's yes men, I dont think I should bother trying to put up another 'case'.

bob_chasm

I think religion could be a reason, if the judges were sympathetic to the cause of radical followers of Sharia investigated by Musharraf's government for terrorist activities. As far as the brother is concerned, I dont see why he couldnt be financing the property purchases. How fat would the checks have to be? I mean land prices were in the few thousand rupees, when the brother was making hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Spock

How did you arrive to that conclusion? They were only investigating the disappearance of the people that Musharraf sold off to the west (something he has already admitted in that book of his).

Lets separate facts from speculations first.

ehtasab

Does the link say that Musharraf has sold these properties? When? At what prices? After getting this info we can safely establish that he must've bought this farm house after selling other properties.

bob_chasm

Present your facts, please.

Spock

i) We all know how much people draw as salaries in the PA, so we can rule that out

ii) Supreme Court took the case up, i.e. him and some other influential illegally obtaining subsidized farmhouses

If you want, I can post authentic links to back the above?

Your turn

bob_chasm

When a State goes around looking at who owns what and asks them to justify where they got the money to buy it, it is in my opinion, a witch hunt. I would feel more comfortable if the State would provide proof of (the specific crime) that generated the money. Then, prove how someone used these funds to buy something not the other way around. Otherwise, the State is basically assuming the guy is guilty until proven innocent, because he owns something. This would be an example of big brother government gone crazy. Nobody likes to see governments exercising this kind of power. The potential for abuse by incumbent would cloud the truth. In the case of Musharraf it is clear he was persuing a policy against radical followers of Sharia. So sympathizers of radical followers of Sharia would be expected to conduct witch hunts against Musharraf. So unless you can provide specific proof of embezzlement against Musharraf taking money from government contracts, it really doesnt interest me and makes me suspicious of why someone wants to conduct a witch hunt against him.

Spock

^ So the 90% or so of the country's population that wanted Musharraf out and held for his crimes/corruption are just witch hunters and radical followers of Sharia? Those that want Zardari investigated as well, what are they?

Musharraf actually helped the radical followers of sharia. Remember something called the military mollah alliance? Radicals flourished and created trouble thanks to his two faced policies, but this topic is about his embezzlement and property fraud.

bob_chasm

We all know that Generals in PA dont just draw salaries. I just provided you with a list of atleast 5 plots which can legally be obtained by Generals in the Pakistan Army, at deeply discounted prices.

In addition I have provided you information that his father owned a house in F8. In addition I have provided you information that his brother was a physician, earning hundreds of thousands of dollars in the USA since the 70s.

There is nothing illegal about buying a farm. He bought it from a civilain owner of the land. It wasnt allotted to him by the government.

bob_chasm

90% of the people could want the earth to be flat, it doesnt make it flat. Justice requires specific evidence. A mob doesnt define justice.

Then provide evidence of embezzlement from specific government contract. Otherwise, you raise suspicions about your own motives.

Spock

These are speculations, not facts. As for the plot in F-8, do you have any factual proof?

If it was legal to buy that farm on subsidized prices and NOT use it as a farmhouse, then why was that case taken up in the Supreme Court?