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Old Sep 6th, 2008, 04:03 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Shamraz Khan View Post
I don't know why people are going after AAZ even before he did anything wrong. Let us wait and see. If he & his party failed to fulfill their promises they'll be kicked out by voters next time around. Isn't this what democracy is about? So, my appeal to all is please let the system work & let us not invite army to come into politics again.
You are so right. 5 saal kee tou baat hay. Nawaz has told Zardari kay 'tu chal may ayea ... jaa kuch dollars bana ... per kuch rahnay bhie dayna ... iss khotay awaam nay akhir teray baad mujhay hee tou laana hay ... phir may 5 saal dollars banayoon ga ... aur tu side may baith ker 5 saal intezar karna' .






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Old Sep 6th, 2008, 04:13 PM   #62 (permalink)
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welcome to CIA sponsored democracy. May God help Pakistan cuz its people sure aren't.






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Old Sep 6th, 2008, 04:20 PM   #63 (permalink)
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May Allah have mercy on our nation!

Worth reading:


What a bloody mess!

By Ardeshir Cowasjee

HOW ironic. Having reiterated time and time again over the past years that the then president of Pakistan, Gen Pervez Musharraf, was (and remains) the best of the worst lot, it was highly amusing to read in a column headed “Musharraf’s Pakistan had true potential” printed in the Boston Globe of Aug 26: “The sad thing is that Musharraf was the best of the current lot.”

And how factual was an editorial in The Independent (London) of the same day which opened up: “Even by the notoriously low standards of South Asian politics, Asif Ali Zardari, leader of the PPP, is a compromised figure, dogged by corruption charges. So it is hard to be enthused by the PPP’s decision to nominate its leader as the country’s next president.”

This was one day after the Financial Times had broken the news of the medical reports compiled by two New York-based psychiatrists, which had been filed in a London court to support an application to delay corruption cases brought against him by the Pakistan government. The diagnoses were delivered in March 2007 and successfully served their purpose. The FT report opens “Asif Ali Zardari, the leading contender for the presidency of nuclear-armed Pakistan, was suffering from severe psychiatric problems as recently as last year, according to court documents filed by his doctors.”

The FT report has also been picked up and commented upon internationally. Pakistan is in the news again to its detriment. Presidential candidate Zardari has been diagnosed as suffering from “emotional instability”, memory loss and concentration problems, and major depressive disorder. These court papers have caused alarm amongst the citizens of his country who question his ability, and his fitness, to occupy the presidential chair.

In these past few days, I have been inundated with e-mails calling upon me to come to the aid of the country and save it from Zardari. Little do they know what a columnist can achieve — all he can do is save a few blind donkeys and some old trees. Even were I to approach the courts, under the present circumstances, my petition would be thrown out quicker than a wink of an eye. And the same goes for the Election Commission. Citizens of Pakistan are, these days, wary of ‘consequences’.

Now, constitutionally where does Zardari stand in view of the court-backed doubts about his mental state? The president, under Article 41(2) is required to be “qualified to be elected as a member of the National Assembly”. According to Article 63(a) a person is disqualified to be a member of the National Assembly if “he is of unsound mind and has been so declared by a competent court”.

The court in London accepted the psychiatrists’ certificates and acted upon them. Zardari, if he wishes to deny the diagnoses, must plead that the London court is incompetent and that the psychiatrists were falsifying. We must go with an editorial of Aug 28 which counselled that “It would be unwise to dismiss the recent revelations about the fragile state of Mr Asif Zardari’s mental health as irrelevant,” and asked “Does the country really need another potentially deluded individual to lead it through these troubled times?”

Dementia, as any psychiatrist will confirm, is a progressive disorder which usually does not remit with any known treatment. A combination of major depressive disorder and post traumatic stress disorder can hamper memory and judgment. This goes a long way towards explaining the recent Zardari string of dishonoured signed agreements and broken promises.

As if the Zardari mental health state was not sufficient unto the day, news broke in Europe and the US two days later about the release by Switzerland of assets amounting to some $60m which were frozen in 1997 by a Geneva court investigating allegations of kickbacks received by Zardari and Benazir Bhutto between 1994 and 1997 (her second term as prime minister). In June, our attorney general penned a letter to the Swiss prosecutor general informing him that neither husband nor wife had done anything illegal and that the charges were politically motivated (thank you, USA and Musharraf, for the NRO). The money laundering case was dropped and Zardari is now richer than ever having pocketed a dubious $60m, though the PPP leader vehemently denies receiving this amount.

The investigating judge in Geneva, Daniel Devaud, was flabbergasted. “It would be very difficult to say that there is nothing in the files that shows there was possible corruption going on after what I have seen in there. After I heard what the general prosecutor said, I have a feeling we are talking about two different cases.” The Swiss release should not in any way be interpreted as a sign of innocence.

Now, let us revert to our mutilated almost incomprehensible constitution which as far as Article 62 goes is clear. To qualify as a member of the National Assembly, and thus to be able to contest the presidential election, a man must be “of good character and is not commonly known as one who violates Islamic injunctions”, and he must be “sagacious, righteous and non-profligate and honest and ameen”. No further comment is necessary.

We must wonder how our armed forces feel about all this. After all, the president is not only their supreme commander but he has his finger on the nuclear button. Zardari and his sycophantic supine political party must ask themselves if he truly qualifies to be a head of state. He has five days in which to prove himself a patriot and a democrat. Democracy, no matter what the party slogan may proclaim, is not a form of revenge and for him to carry through his ambition (which he has nursed ever since he made up his mind to rid himself of Musharraf) would be an act of vengeance upon his country and its people.

Of the three presidential candidates, Mushahid Hussain is by far the cleanest (the ‘best of the worst’). I have suggested to him that, as a directly affected party, he go to the courts immediately and at least attempt to obtain a stay order. The frightened people of the world and the people of Pakistan will undoubtedly support his move.

DAWN - Cowasjee Corner; August 31, 2008







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Old Sep 6th, 2008, 04:32 PM   #64 (permalink)
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By Ardeshir Cowasjee

HOW ironic. Having reiterated time and time again over the past years that the then president of Pakistan, Gen Pervez Musharraf, was (and remains) the best of the worst lot, it was highly amusing to read in a column headed “Musharraf’s Pakistan had true potential” printed in the Boston Globe of Aug 26: “The sad thing is that Musharraf was the best of the current lot.”

And how factual was an editorial in The Independent (London) of the same day which opened up: “Even by the notoriously low standards of South Asian politics, Asif Ali Zardari, leader of the PPP, is a compromised figure, dogged by corruption charges. So it is hard to be enthused by the PPP’s decision to nominate its leader as the country’s next president.”







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Old Sep 6th, 2008, 04:40 PM   #65 (permalink)
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welcome to CIA sponsored democracy. May God help Pakistan cuz its people sure aren't.

%100 agree.







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Old Sep 6th, 2008, 04:42 PM   #66 (permalink)
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I agree Zardari isn't saint, but you wont find saints in politics. The point is continuity of the system w/o interruption & army marching back into politics. We can't afford that.
If he was just "corrupt" it might have been okay/acceptable as all of our current lot is corrupt to some extent but this guy is a criminal. He is responsible for few murders and money extortion (using shoe-bomb). PPP should be held responsible (after Musharraf) as to why they let him steal the leadership of the party and later on nominate him for the presidency.







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Old Sep 6th, 2008, 04:45 PM   #67 (permalink)
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^Agree.






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Old Sep 6th, 2008, 04:46 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Hasn't everyone already seen enough? Democracy my foot.
Not to ignore the dictatorships:

One dictatorship gives us Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto
Second dictatorship gives us Nawaz Sharif, Altaf Hussein
Third dictatorhship gives us Asif Ali Zardari

I don't know how dictatorship can be a solution for our country.






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Old Sep 6th, 2008, 04:49 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Theres not many saints but then again Zrdari is scraping the barrel. Is your hatred of the army in politics that much that you would support someone like Zardari?

Pakistan cant afford to have Zardari at the head. I feel sick to the stomach. Chances are we will be seeing the army back in politica quiite frankly because pakistanis are not able to elect a decent set of people into power.

This has got to be pakistan at one of its lowest ebbs. Who knows? Maybe those who doubt Zardari are all wrong.

If he really has dementia doubt he will survive the ordeal the press will be giving him soon.

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I agree Zardari isn't saint, but you wont find saints in politics. The point is continuity of the system w/o interruption & army marching back into politics. We can't afford that.






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Old Sep 6th, 2008, 05:20 PM   #70 (permalink)
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i just don't get one thing, how could a person who's single (ok widower) could be the head of state , that too islamic , r'nt there any rulings regarding this in islam & pakistan's constitution ??
wasn't he supposed to prove first that he's married/ guy with strong family values ? quiet confusing for me







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Old Sep 6th, 2008, 05:25 PM   #71 (permalink)
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As per many are expecting, Zardari's era will be the best era in economic reforms and prosperity...

I would say that only his bank accounts will have great reforms and his real-estate out of Pakistan will further prosper..






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Old Sep 6th, 2008, 07:45 PM   #72 (permalink)
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welcome to CIA sponsored democracy. May God help Pakistan cuz its people sure aren't.
Agreed(yeh smiley Zrdari jysa lgta hy na)







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Old Sep 6th, 2008, 09:16 PM   #73 (permalink)
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May Allah save Pakistan and guide its people.







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Old Sep 6th, 2008, 10:25 PM   #74 (permalink)
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i just don't get one thing, how could a person who's single (ok widower) could be the head of state , that too islamic , r'nt there any rulings regarding this in islam & pakistan's constitution ??
wasn't he supposed to prove first that he's married/ guy with strong family values ? quiet confusing for me
No, as per my knowledge, there is no such condition in the constitution for the marital status or family value of the President.

Today is a sad day for Pakistan!!!






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Old Sep 6th, 2008, 10:25 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Not to ignore the dictatorships:

One dictatorship gives us Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto
Second dictatorship gives us Nawaz Sharif, Altaf Hussein
Third dictatorhship gives us Asif Ali Zardari

I don't know how dictatorship can be a solution for our country.

Very well said, truely agreed!!






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Old Sep 6th, 2008, 11:46 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ehtasab View Post
Not to ignore the dictatorships:

One dictatorship gives us Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto
Second dictatorship gives us Nawaz Sharif, Altaf Hussein
Third dictatorhship gives us Asif Ali Zardari

I don't know how dictatorship can be a solution for our country.
#1-u forgot benazir
#2- u did not note what the democratic govts gave us either







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Old Sep 6th, 2008, 11:53 PM   #77 (permalink)
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May Allah save Pakistan and guide its people.
Aap log ayesee batyain kewn kartay ho? Ask all democracy lovers on this forum, those for whom Musharraf was icon of evil, saboteur of democracy and constitution, they must be so much happy and celebrating today because their efforts has brought fruit and democracy has come to Pakistan. We should give collective congratulation to democracy lovers. We have consensus President, voice of Pakistani democracy, who not only received votes from his own party but votes from all parties of Pakistan, got substantial votes from all four provinces, got around 70 percent of possible Presidential votes (even though PPP has around 215 out of 702 possible Presidential votes, Zardari got 481 votes). Who could be better and more consensual President of Pakistan than great democrat Zardari? I do not know where are those democracy lovers gone? They should come and bow to their democratically elected President with respect. I have a slogan for democracy lovers of Pakistan:

Woh thee subon kee zanjeer ... BeNazir BeNazir ... aab ayea zubon ka Sardar ... BeNazir ka khidmatgar... Jamuhri Sipah-Saalar ... Constitution ka wafadaar ... Zardar Zardar.






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Old Sep 7th, 2008, 12:55 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Is your hatred of the army in politics that much that you would support someone like Zardari?
Well, army has no business in politics to start with & the reason country is in mess its b/c of army. So, unless we support the system & keep corrupt generals out we will eventually disintegrate as nation. I hope this is not what you're looking forward to.







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Old Sep 7th, 2008, 01:06 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Not to ignore the dictatorships:

One dictatorship gives us Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto
Second dictatorship gives us Nawaz Sharif, Altaf Hussein
Third dictatorhship gives us Asif Ali Zardari

I don't know how dictatorship can be a solution for our country.
Exactly.....lets not forget that dictatorships in our country has played a vital role in encouraging ethnic and religious divisions. They are the initiator of all these problems.






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Old Sep 7th, 2008, 01:12 AM   #80 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by paki boy View Post
Of the three presidential candidates, Mushahid Hussain is by far the cleanest (the ‘best of the worst’). I have suggested to him that, as a directly affected party, he go to the courts immediately and at least attempt to obtain a stay order. The frightened people of the world and the people of Pakistan will undoubtedly support his move.

DAWN - Cowasjee Corner; August 31, 2008
Thats where the author looses credibility. The first thing that comes to mind when the name Mushahid is heard is a big lota!






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Old Sep 7th, 2008, 01:13 AM   #81 (permalink)
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You are talking here like most of our voters (referring to the 60% or so illiterate amongst us) have the ability to think clearly and analyse things independently and do tameez b/w right and wrong. The PPP jiyalays would always vote for PPP no matter what and the same goes for the die-hard supporters of other parties. Our politics is sadly ethnicity and jageerdari-driven so as much as I appreciate your sentiments the current feudal political set-up does not give me much confidence about the future
I guess jiyalays would equal to political base of a party? I don't see anything wrong with that. I think what people like you are over looking is that our political system is not mature enough, and for it to become mature we have to let the system work, & let political parties developed basic ideologies, and what they're want & how they will deliver services to the nation. In the process they will make mistakes & elect clowns like Zardari, but the point is eventually system will correct itself in due time, and filter out these clowns.

BTW, take the US example. It took the US over 232 years & a civil war to developed 2 party political system. In Pakistan same thing was about to happen ie PML and PPP until army got involved and uprooted the system yet again & created the splinter group, the Q-league. Army's involvement in politics is never a good thing any country & almost all of Pakistan's problems, including politically instability, can be traced back to armys involvement in politics.






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Old Sep 7th, 2008, 01:21 AM   #82 (permalink)
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I hope we wont regrat this in future.






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Old Sep 7th, 2008, 01:45 AM   #83 (permalink)
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May Allah have mercy on our nation!

Worth reading:


What a bloody mess!

By Ardeshir Cowasjee

HOW ironic. Having reiterated time and time again over the past years that the then president of Pakistan, Gen Pervez Musharraf, was (and remains) the best of the worst lot, it was highly amusing to read in a column headed “Musharraf’s Pakistan had true potential” printed in the Boston Globe of Aug 26: “The sad thing is that Musharraf was the best of the current lot.”

And how factual was an editorial in The Independent (London) of the same day which opened up: “Even by the notoriously low standards of South Asian politics, Asif Ali Zardari, leader of the PPP, is a compromised figure, dogged by corruption charges. So it is hard to be enthused by the PPP’s decision to nominate its leader as the country’s next president.”

This was one day after the Financial Times had broken the news of the medical reports compiled by two New York-based psychiatrists, which had been filed in a London court to support an application to delay corruption cases brought against him by the Pakistan government. The diagnoses were delivered in March 2007 and successfully served their purpose. The FT report opens “Asif Ali Zardari, the leading contender for the presidency of nuclear-armed Pakistan, was suffering from severe psychiatric problems as recently as last year, according to court documents filed by his doctors.”

The FT report has also been picked up and commented upon internationally. Pakistan is in the news again to its detriment. Presidential candidate Zardari has been diagnosed as suffering from “emotional instability”, memory loss and concentration problems, and major depressive disorder. These court papers have caused alarm amongst the citizens of his country who question his ability, and his fitness, to occupy the presidential chair.

In these past few days, I have been inundated with e-mails calling upon me to come to the aid of the country and save it from Zardari. Little do they know what a columnist can achieve — all he can do is save a few blind donkeys and some old trees. Even were I to approach the courts, under the present circumstances, my petition would be thrown out quicker than a wink of an eye. And the same goes for the Election Commission. Citizens of Pakistan are, these days, wary of ‘consequences’.

Now, constitutionally where does Zardari stand in view of the court-backed doubts about his mental state? The president, under Article 41(2) is required to be “qualified to be elected as a member of the National Assembly”. According to Article 63(a) a person is disqualified to be a member of the National Assembly if “he is of unsound mind and has been so declared by a competent court”.

The court in London accepted the psychiatrists’ certificates and acted upon them. Zardari, if he wishes to deny the diagnoses, must plead that the London court is incompetent and that the psychiatrists were falsifying. We must go with an editorial of Aug 28 which counselled that “It would be unwise to dismiss the recent revelations about the fragile state of Mr Asif Zardari’s mental health as irrelevant,” and asked “Does the country really need another potentially deluded individual to lead it through these troubled times?”

Dementia, as any psychiatrist will confirm, is a progressive disorder which usually does not remit with any known treatment. A combination of major depressive disorder and post traumatic stress disorder can hamper memory and judgment. This goes a long way towards explaining the recent Zardari string of dishonoured signed agreements and broken promises.

As if the Zardari mental health state was not sufficient unto the day, news broke in Europe and the US two days later about the release by Switzerland of assets amounting to some $60m which were frozen in 1997 by a Geneva court investigating allegations of kickbacks received by Zardari and Benazir Bhutto between 1994 and 1997 (her second term as prime minister). In June, our attorney general penned a letter to the Swiss prosecutor general informing him that neither husband nor wife had done anything illegal and that the charges were politically motivated (thank you, USA and Musharraf, for the NRO). The money laundering case was dropped and Zardari is now richer than ever having pocketed a dubious $60m, though the PPP leader vehemently denies receiving this amount.

The investigating judge in Geneva, Daniel Devaud, was flabbergasted. “It would be very difficult to say that there is nothing in the files that shows there was possible corruption going on after what I have seen in there. After I heard what the general prosecutor said, I have a feeling we are talking about two different cases.” The Swiss release should not in any way be interpreted as a sign of innocence.

Now, let us revert to our mutilated almost incomprehensible constitution which as far as Article 62 goes is clear. To qualify as a member of the National Assembly, and thus to be able to contest the presidential election, a man must be “of good character and is not commonly known as one who violates Islamic injunctions”, and he must be “sagacious, righteous and non-profligate and honest and ameen”. No further comment is necessary.

We must wonder how our armed forces feel about all this. After all, the president is not only their supreme commander but he has his finger on the nuclear button. Zardari and his sycophantic supine political party must ask themselves if he truly qualifies to be a head of state. He has five days in which to prove himself a patriot and a democrat. Democracy, no matter what the party slogan may proclaim, is not a form of revenge and for him to carry through his ambition (which he has nursed ever since he made up his mind to rid himself of Musharraf) would be an act of venge