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Sep 14th, 2008, 01:46 PM #1----
So what do you guys have to say about this?
GHQ had strongly opposed handing over Pakistanis to US
ISLAMABAD: Lt Gen (retd) Shahid Aziz, who served as the Chief of General Staff (CGS) from Oct 2001 to Dec 2003, revealed that the Army as an institution was in complete dark about what was going on between Washington and Islamabad on the war on terror and the GHQ and top Army commanders had strongly opposed the handing over of Pakistanis to the US, but Musharraf did so on his own.
Shahid Aziz confirmed that though the office of the CGS in the GHQ was considered to be the nerve centre in the Army, the GHQ did not know most of the controversial things Musharraf did, including the handing over of Pakistani nationals to the Americans.
All attempts to get an official version of the Pakistan Army through the director general of the ISPR could not succeed until the filing of this report.
The retired general told The News on Saturday that while the Pakistan Army used to catch the targeted foreigners and locals and handed them over to the ISI for interrogation, they were handed over to the Americans without the knowledge of the Army.
The Army, he said, had made it clear that no Pakistani would be delivered to the US authorities while the problematic Arabs would be deported to their respective countries.
"We did not know for a long time that the Pakistani nationals were being handed over to the Americans by the ISI," he said, adding that it caused a lot of resentment in the top echelons of the Pakistan Army when they found this was happening. He said that Musharraf had got the ISI engaged to collaborate with the American CIA without the knowledge of the rest of Pakistan Army.
Musharraf, during his rule, had also allowed the US drones to use the Pakistani airspace for intelligence sharing besides permitting the American intelligence agencies, the CIA and the FBI, to recruit their agents in the tribal belt of Pakistan, he said.
Shahid Aziz disclosed that the drones were permitted to use the country's airspace despite strong opposition from the GHQ, but still General Musharraf granted this permission.
Interestingly, the same drones have carried out most of the US-led coalition strikes inside Pakistan, killing hundreds of people, including innocent women and children. He disclosed that during his tenure, there had been no agreement between the Pakistan Army and Washington on the war on terror, rather Musharraf was directly dealing with the Americans.
Shahid Aziz, who enjoyed an exceptional reputation in the Army, disclosed that when initially consulted after 9/11, the top commanders had decided that the Pakistan Army would remain out of the conflict.
However, later because of compromises by Musharraf, the Army was dragged in and the situation was such that one hand of the Pakistan Army did not know what the other hand was assigned or doing.
Musharraf had compartmentalised the Army to such an extent that even the CGS would not know many things directly assigned by the Army chief to other departments.
Shahid Aziz, who also served as the chairman NAB but resigned early last year when asked to close the special NAB cell probing corruption cases against Benazir Bhutto and Asif Ali Zardari, explained that since the former Army chief was also in the government, the Army as an institution was not consulted on many things that were being agreed between Islamabad and Washington.
After 9/11, he said, the Army was told that Washington did not want foreigners like Arabs, Uzbeks, Tajiks, etc in the tribal areas of Pakistan.
When the issue was discussed in the GHQ, he said, the Army decided to ensure that these foreigners, most of them had settled in Pakistan, were forced to remain quiet.
Sep 14th, 2008, 01:48 PM #2----
Mr. Zardari is another name for corruption, who will lead Pakistan to death. 61 years to date, when Pakistan was born, who has till now taken responsibilty for Pakistan as a whole hearted leader after Jinnah? No one,and no one will, because people who run Pakistan as so called leaders are people who have roots of corruption and terrorism installed in them. We as the youth of Pakistan,would like to see Pakistan developing as a moderate, acceptable country, but that is just not possible, because people like Zardari wont let that happen. Pakistan was not founded for being the center for terrorism and corruption, there was a reason why we fought for another country and that was to live in peace and harmony. Wake up please and save Pakistan from falling into the hands of corruption.
Sep 14th, 2008, 01:57 PM #3----
^ what does that have to do with the thread again? corruption and terrorism are two different things, did u post in the wrong thread?
Sep 14th, 2008, 04:26 PM #4----
Sep 14th, 2008, 05:57 PM #5----
I still fail to see what Mr Zardari has to do with this topic, about the way Musharraf was treating the army, and tarnishing its image.
After reading the above, I think everyone who developed ill feelings towards the armed forces because of Maharajja Musharraf and some of his Generals, should let go of this feelings. The new chief so far is making sure the army stays out of politics, and not just himself but hes keeping a check on all the people in his top brass. They should have no political affiliations whatsoever.
Sep 14th, 2008, 11:50 PM #6
there is no question that mushyman had much damaged the institution of army over the years since 2001 but but, this retired general sounds a bit digruntled, maybe he didnt get a piece of the pie, if ya catch me drift.I am only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.
Sep 15th, 2008, 12:45 AM #7----
Ansar Abbasi is such a sold-out animal and a Liar that he openly said on Hamid Mir TV discussion program (something I heard myself) unashamedly, with his makruh smile on his cursed face, that Journalists should have their own opinions and agendas when reporting, and should promote that agenda using whatever means, including lies, misreporting, twisting the facts, etc. According to this rascal, he believes that lies are acceptable from Journalists to change public opinions according to their liking.
He was giving his comment after one journalist commented that since last few years, many journalists in Pakistani media were doing bias reporting and were spreading misinformation to misguide the public, something journalists should not do, as their job is to bring truth to the people and let the people make their opinions. Ansar Abbasi made comments to justify the role of journalists who were lying, misinforming, twisting facts and doing bias and selective reporting, so that to misguide people and make them change opinions.
Even though I knew that many crooks on payroll of corrupts calling themselves journalist are actually liars and agents, but it was most surprising for me to see one of these rascals openly defending lies, misinforming, misreporting, twisting the facts, and fulfilling agendas. I felt puking on his face but I decided not to make my TV dirty because of this rascal whose face looks cursed anyhow (Allah kee her ayesay jhotay per lanat hotie hay jo dusroon ko misguide karnay kay liya jhoot bolta hay. ... and if anyone do not believe me, try to look at his face carefully)
Just look at his reporting and think. I am sure that only someone with no brain would accept what he wrote ... about his interview with Shahid Aziz. Read carefully, think and one would find that most of that interview is BS, full of lies and ridiculous claims. Discussed in GHQ ... Army ... all this BS Ansar Abbasi writes for pea brained Pakistanis to misguide them and fool them ... but problem is that ... it seems this Rascal liar Ansar Abbasi does not know the difference between GHQ, Army and Army Chief ... because when we talk about Army we talk about Army Chief ... and when we talk about GHQ we talk about office of the Army chief. Musharraf was Army Chief ... so his person (and no one else) was not only representing Army but GHQ was his office. If he use to discuss anything with others in army, it was not required but a courteous gesture. If Musharraf had decided anything, he did not needed to explain to others, and thus whatever army or GHQ decided, it was Musharraf decisions and no one else. Now think of these facts and read the above interview to find it not only absurd and ridiculous, but something funny too.
Fact is that, Musharraf was first army chief who use to discuss things with his corps commanders, else all past army chief in Pakistan never even use to discuss anything with their juniors, neither they need to. Second is that, Musharraf was first head of state as well as army chief who discussed many things with corps commanders about government, that no past rulers ever discussed. It was greatness of Musharraf that he use to take all on board, else such things has never happened before in Pakistan neither anyone could expect same from Gen Kiyani or any future Army chiefs (not only in Pakistan but anywhere in the world).
Last edited by Sa1eem; Sep 15th, 2008 at 01:31 AM.
Sep 15th, 2008, 01:05 AM #8----
saaray Pakistan ka ek hi naara: ehtasab ehtasab!
Sep 15th, 2008, 02:27 AM #9----
Shahid Aziz is reputed to be a shrewd, upright, honest, and a capable officer....Shahid Aziz did a commenable job in unearthing BB/Zardari assets in Switzerland and elsewhere and was instrumental in getting them frozen...He accumalated enough evidence against the couple which was sufficient to nail them....working as the head of NAB..
In early 2007 when rumors of deal between BB and Musharraf were ripe....he was told to halt these investigations suddenly and NAB was told not to persue these cases abruptly.....when he refused to comply with such unofficial instructions he was threatened and transferred from his NAB job....these were pre NRO days....and these are well known facts known to everybody who has access to power gossip in relevant social circles...
He enjoys a very good reputation....and it is widely believed that his hard work was used by then illegal President as a bagaining chip with BB in an effort to extend his illegal tenure in power.....instead of bringing corrupt couple to face justice........
Last edited by yazdi; Sep 15th, 2008 at 02:35 AM.
Sep 15th, 2008, 02:30 AM #10----
Sep 15th, 2008, 03:02 AM #11----
Ansaar Abassi is one of the most upright and honest journalist we have in the country.....who is against all sort of illegalities and unprincipled actions taken by anyone in this country.....his patriotism is recognised by those people even who oppose his political views....he is one of the most respected and decent journalist our country has ever produced...
Sep 15th, 2008, 03:02 AM #12----
Can you tell us all if GHQ comprises of any other Lt General or General? Or does GHQ comprise only of the COAS office, thanks. I believe GHQ houses many Lt Generals and some Generals, this article is referring to officers other than COAS in the GHQ.
You wrote that this article refers to the officers other than COAS in GHQ ... but it seems you did not read what I wrote. What I wrote is that ... When we say that army has decided, it means COAS has decided, and when we say that GHQ has taken decision, it means COAS has taken decision. No one in Army has any decision making authority other than COAS. Even Corps commanders and other officers take decision with permission and on behalf of COAS. No one can even question COAS not only because he is COAS but also because all other officers are lower ranking officers (Lt Generals are lower ranking to General).
In Pakistan, COAS whose rank is General has around 30 or so Lt Generals working under him, 10 of them are corps commanders. When deciding something regarding army, COAS do not take advice from lower ranking officers. If COAS decides to take advice from anyone (from within the army or outside the army), still it is just advice that he do not need to value. Nevertheless, regardless of COAS takes advice or not, whatever decision he takes is his decision, not someone else decision, so to say that GHQ decision or army decision, different from COAS decision, is ridiculous.
Sep 15th, 2008, 03:16 AM #13----
Meray Bhai, I do not know what value you have but just imagine, you are calling a person 'honest' whom I saw saying on TV that journalists should have agenda and should be bias in their reporting. This guy, Ansar Abbasi believes on lying and misguiding innocent people who read or hear him. Is that honesty? But then, I should not say much as there are many who love dishonest liars and get misguided by them. For instance, there are people who love NS and his team of liars, considering NS as great leader, knowing that NS was lying blatantly that he went to Saudi Arabia without any deal. Some support this liar and say that he made deal under duress. What a beautiful duress it was that he left prison to live in Palace, still ... obviously excuses of these people are ridiculous.
It is obvious that Nawaz is liar and was blatantly lying when he claimed that he left for Saudi Arabia without deal, because he was not under duress when he was claiming that he left for Saudi Arabia without deal as he claimed that from Saudi Arabia and London. If he was not liar, he should have at least said that he did went to Saudi Arabia because of deal, though that deal was under duress
Last edited by Sa1eem; Sep 15th, 2008 at 04:31 AM.
Sep 15th, 2008, 03:47 AM #14----
Please reassure my faith in you as our own nice Saleem bhaijan who believes in supremacy of law....by reconfirming the meaning of BS as you meant....
Last edited by yazdi; Sep 15th, 2008 at 04:39 AM.
Sep 15th, 2008, 06:44 AM #15----
Sep 15th, 2008, 08:37 AM #16----
hahaha saleem, ansar abbasi is another one of those heroes in the media who played his role in getting rid of the dictator, which is why you are so sore that you are resorting to name calling like you usually do. This is the same guy who was insulted by your mush appointed laaaww minister (big armed) wasi zafar, and he never lost his cool. The people were a good judge of who was an animal when they voted Wasi Zafar out of parliament in February 08.
Sep 15th, 2008, 08:40 AM #17----
Sep 15th, 2008, 09:25 AM #18----
saaray Pakistan ka ek hi naara: ehtasab ehtasab!