Ex-General defends Army, blames Musharraf - Page 2

Sa1eem · Sep 15th, 2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehtasab

Sa1eem bhai this is what you wrote:

In this post you are not talking about "army/GHQ/COAS has taken decision", in this post you are saying when we talk about army/COAS/GHQ they are all the same... there is a difference in "making decision" and when we refer to army, coas or GHQ!

Yaar, ab aap atna bhie masoom na banay aur kat-bahasee na karyain

. In both post I am talking about 'decision' as subject was 'decision'. Article says that Msharraf took decision that was not decision of Army and GHQ. So I wrote that this statement is ridiculous, as Musharraf was COAS and COAS is Army and GHQ. It should be obvious that what I wrote meant that ... Decision of Musharraf was decision of Army and decision of GHQ, as all these are same ... and anyone could have understood that.

Robert · Sep 15th, 2008, 02:58 PM

One has to continue digging, to find anti-Musharraf articles, or read lot of anti-Musharraf interviews like the above, to convine yourself, that you were right when you opposed his dictatorial regime. Specially when nato is knocking on the border, your brain needs convincing that removing him was justified, even when your heart now is thinking otherwise.

Shamraz Khan · Sep 16th, 2008, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

One has to continue digging, to find anti-Musharraf articles, or read lot of anti-Musharraf interviews like the above, to convine yourself, that you were right when you opposed his dictatorial regime. Specially when nato is knocking on the border, your brain needs convincing that removing him was justified, even when your heart now is thinking otherwise.

NATO is knocking on our doors b/c of his idiotic policies & not just him, but the idiotic polices pursed by criminal generals like Mushrraf who have brought our nation to where we stand today. Thats why the man deserves to be hanged along with other traitors.

Decent 6Chora · Sep 16th, 2008, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

So what do you guys have to say about this?

GHQ had strongly opposed handing over Pakistanis to US

ISLAMABAD: Lt Gen (retd) Shahid Aziz, who served as the Chief of General Staff (CGS) from Oct 2001 to Dec 2003, revealed that the Army as an institution was in complete dark about what was going on between Washington and Islamabad on the war on terror and the GHQ and top Army commanders had strongly opposed the handing over of Pakistanis to the US, but Musharraf did so on his own.

Shahid Aziz confirmed that though the office of the CGS in the GHQ was considered to be the nerve centre in the Army, the GHQ did not know most of the controversial things Musharraf did, including the handing over of Pakistani nationals to the Americans.

All attempts to get an official version of the Pakistan Army through the director general of the ISPR could not succeed until the filing of this report.

The retired general told The News on Saturday that while the Pakistan Army used to catch the targeted foreigners and locals and handed them over to the ISI for interrogation, they were handed over to the Americans without the knowledge of the Army.

The Army, he said, had made it clear that no Pakistani would be delivered to the US authorities while the problematic Arabs would be deported to their respective countries.

"We did not know for a long time that the Pakistani nationals were being handed over to the Americans by the ISI," he said, adding that it caused a lot of resentment in the top echelons of the Pakistan Army when they found this was happening. He said that Musharraf had got the ISI engaged to collaborate with the American CIA without the knowledge of the rest of Pakistan Army.

Musharraf, during his rule, had also allowed the US drones to use the Pakistani airspace for intelligence sharing besides permitting the American intelligence agencies, the CIA and the FBI, to recruit their agents in the tribal belt of Pakistan, he said.

Shahid Aziz disclosed that the drones were permitted to use the country's airspace despite strong opposition from the GHQ, but still General Musharraf granted this permission.

Interestingly, the same drones have carried out most of the US-led coalition strikes inside Pakistan, killing hundreds of people, including innocent women and children. He disclosed that during his tenure, there had been no agreement between the Pakistan Army and Washington on the war on terror, rather Musharraf was directly dealing with the Americans.

Shahid Aziz, who enjoyed an exceptional reputation in the Army, disclosed that when initially consulted after 9/11, the top commanders had decided that the Pakistan Army would remain out of the conflict.

However, later because of compromises by Musharraf, the Army was dragged in and the situation was such that one hand of the Pakistan Army did not know what the other hand was assigned or doing.

Musharraf had compartmentalised the Army to such an extent that even the CGS would not know many things directly assigned by the Army chief to other departments.

Shahid Aziz, who also served as the chairman NAB but resigned early last year when asked to close the special NAB cell probing corruption cases against Benazir Bhutto and Asif Ali Zardari, explained that since the former Army chief was also in the government, the Army as an institution was not consulted on many things that were being agreed between Islamabad and Washington.

After 9/11, he said, the Army was told that Washington did not want foreigners like Arabs, Uzbeks, Tajiks, etc in the tribal areas of Pakistan.

When the issue was discussed in the GHQ, he said, the Army decided to ensure that these foreigners, most of them had settled in Pakistan, were forced to remain quiet.

So what do you guys have to say about this?

He is the same Gen that Spock mentioned in his post so most probably he is credible

Source: Jang Group Online

Ajju · Sep 16th, 2008, 10:09 AM

^^^ It seems like the said general is actually pro-Mush but Ansar abbasi presented his own views as general's views by twisting the interview. Classic yellow journalism.

Spock · Sep 16th, 2008, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajju

^^^ It seems like the said general is actually pro-Mush but Ansar abbasi presented his own views as general's views by twisting the interview. Classic yellow journalism.

So the the 2nd interview has to be 'correct'? I fail to see any references, let alone the fact both you and I dont know which paper this 'urdu' article appeared in. I guess we only like to read what we like.

Sa1eem · Sep 16th, 2008, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamraz Khan

NATO is knocking on our doors b/c of his idiotic policies & not just him, but the idiotic polices pursed by criminal generals like Mushrraf who have brought our nation to where we stand today. Thats why the man deserves to be hanged along with other traitors.

No, you are wrong. Actually, Indian, NATO and American forces are not inside Pakistan like they are in Iraq because of the policy of this General, else today Pakistan would not have been there or would have been really a pile of rubbles.

Spock · Sep 16th, 2008, 11:08 AM

^

Saleem bhai, so now the NATO and American forces all of a sudden are very very bad, since they ditched this General? So by this logic, whatever you said about the miscreant religious nutjobs before also gets a u-turn! Im still not over your u-turn on Zardari, and now all of this

Sa1eem · Sep 16th, 2008, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

^

Saleem bhai, so now the NATO and American forces all of a sudden are very very bad, since they ditched this General? So by this logic, whatever you said about the miscreant religious nutjobs before also gets a u-turn! Im still not over your u-turn on Zardari, and now all of this

When was 'THEN' and when it is 'NOW'?

I never said that NATO and American forces were good or bad. These forces do their duty and their Countries act according to their own interests and principles. I am not that retarded to say that NATO or American forces were good or bad, only retarded mind think of foreign forces as good or bad.

Decent 6Chora · Sep 16th, 2008, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

So the the 2nd interview has to be 'correct'? I fail to see any references, let alone the fact both you and I dont know which paper this 'urdu' article appeared in. I guess we only like to read what we like.

If you read my post carefully, It has the link to JANG Newspaper, Abbasi's very own paper btw

aur yee urdu per itna ma-enee-khaiz zoor kyun hai? Do you think Urdu papers are not reliable or what?

Sa1eem · Sep 16th, 2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decent 6Chora

So what do you guys have to say about this?

He is the same Gen that Spock mentioned in his post so most probably he is credible

Source: Jang Group Online

Brother, thank you for the clarification of Lt Gen Shahid Aziz, exposing Rascals like Ansar Abbasi. Obviously many must have missed the clarification (as I would have if you did not put it here), and obviously Rascals like Ansar Abbasi and many others like him have succeeded in doing propaganda full of lies, but still it is nice to expose them and their true stinking faces. InshaAllah, these people and their partners, who lie and do propaganda to misguide innocent people, would burn in hell forever.

Read what Rascal Ansar Abbasi wrote ... read what I wrote about Ansar Abbasi, that this guy is crook and misguide people with twisted reporting, lies and agenda. Now, here is what clarification came from Shahid Azia. Why clarification was needed is obvious, because Ansar Abbasi is rascal and twisted the interview. Purpose of Ansar Abbasi was to misguide innocent readers, and obviously those who trust this Rascal (unwittingly) and had no opportunity to read what Shahid Aziz Actually said, would get misguided.

Things to note from what Lt Gen Shahid Aziz said (against lies what Rascals like Ansar Abbasi propagates) is that: It was policy of president Musharraf that Musharraf vigorously emphasised to all that ... no Pakistani would be handed over to Americans, plus Pakistan would try to send all foreigners first their own country (actually, what I know is that Musharraf gave general amnesty to all foreigners if they surrender and want to live in Pakistan. Only those foreigners were attested who did not surrendered, and when arrested their country were approached to take them and when their contrary declined to take them than only they were handed over to Americans). Shahid Aziz also said that when we learned of Pakistanis in Guantanamo Bay, we felt remorse. According to Shahid Aziz, the possibility of these Pakistanis in Guantanamo Bay is that they must have got arrested in Afghanistan.

Lt Gen Shahid Aziz also said that at no point military was unaware of anything that was related to Military and military was involved. He also said that decision to ditch Taliban was made with careful consideration and taking all pros and con into equation, something only those could understand who were in the position at that time. Throughout Lt Gen Shahid Aziz not only defendend President Musharrad decisions but appreciated it showing high regards of the decisions and role or President Musharraf throughout. He also said that Pakistanis should be thankful of President Musharraf that he steered Pakistan out of crises getting us 7 valuable years after 9/11 and made Pakistan stronger strategically today. He further said that Musharraf only cooperated with USA to certain limit, and never cooperated beyond that limit.

Now it is sad and disgusting that a Liar and a Rascal like Ansar Abbasi twisted everything what Shahid Aziz said and did all to misguide innocent Pakistanis so that he can fulfil his agenda of maligning an honest man. From what Shahid Aziz wrote and the reality, one can judge the character of this disgraced person Ansar Abbasi, and people like him in Journalism as well as in other places. Worse is that, many Pakistanis are becoming victim of such propaganda and lies by number of thugs like Abbas Ansari in Journalism and becoming misguided.

Source: http://jang.com.pk/jang/sep2008-dail...2008/main3.htm

Spock · Sep 16th, 2008, 12:45 PM

So Saleem bhai, where in that urdu article does it say that the forces were taken into confidence before attacking other Pakistanis?

Sa1eem · Sep 16th, 2008, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

So Saleem bhai, where in that urdu article does it say that the forces were taken into confidence before attacking other Pakistanis?

It is news to me that Pakistani forces ever attacked other Pakistanis. Who are those 'other Pakistanis' Pakistani forces are attacking?

Please do not mention those Pakistanis who are challenging the writ of the government, as it is duty of armed forces to find them and kill these criminals.

Spock · Sep 16th, 2008, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sa1eem;6049236[B

]It is news to me that Pakistani forces ever attacked other Pakistanis. [/B]

Decent 6Chora · Sep 16th, 2008, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

U can laugh all day if you want to but the fact is that PAK Army has not done any carpet bombing. They are FIGHTING against the guys who are willing to kill and die.

Spock · Sep 16th, 2008, 01:22 PM

Saleem bhai, so the operation against the MQM terrorists in Karachi by our armed forces was justified

Spock · Sep 16th, 2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decent 6Chora

U can laugh all day if you want to but the fact is that PAK Army has not done any carpet bombing. They are FIGHTING against the guys who are willing to kill and die.

I am not laughing over the loss of lives chanda, Im laughing over saleem bhai's u-turns.

Aalsi · Sep 17th, 2008, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decent 6Chora

So what do you guys have to say about this?

He is the same Gen that Spock mentioned in his post so most probably he is credible

Source: Jang Group Online

LOL. Looks like Ansar Abbasi has been exposed as a not so credible journalist. Rather than writing objectively, he is twisting facts to possibly show his personal dislike for the former president Great Pervez Musharaf, the greatest Pakistani leader since Quaid-e-Azam.