IntelliPhant

Separate;

1) Cause form effect.

2) Belief from bias.


What do you think about it.

Mirch

Depends on many factors.

IntelliPhant

In philosophy we are ready to discuss each factor along with all of its details

InToXiCaTeD

1) Cause form effect.

Cause and effect is a Universal Law just like gravity and Polarity. There have to be a cause to an effect and effect to a cause and I believe its only for Allah to decide whether/when to "seperate" the two.

2) Belief from bias.

Cant even make sense of what/how I wanna say what i wanna say. so may be later.

psyah

^ Perhaps you wanted to say that if you came across a concept without bias then to accept it on that basis, and if you came across a concept with bias to accept it on that basis, then through experience improve on ones stance in a fair manner.

To stay on the fence until we are certain is a fallacy of the agnostic

We should decide be it as per our bias or not and then to modify our stance as more 'light' is shed on the issue through time and experience.

So the answer being belief can be torn away from bias when our faculty of wisdom dominates our other faculties. courage, temperance and justice.

InToXiCaTeD

^^ wow you put it very nicely .....

and what are your views about #1 "Cause from Effect"?

psyah

^ That is Qadr

How can every action be taken account of even one as small as an atom if it is possible to remove its consequence? Every effect has a cause, and every cause is itself an effect of more fundamental causes. The only Cause that itself has no causes is God.

It is often easy to distinguish between a cause and an effect. Sometimes things are interdependent i.e. they cause each other and it can become blurred; what came first chicken or the egg?

Of course as believers in Creation we believe the chicken came first.

IntelliPhant

Psyah Bhai, I thought you were deeply inspired by Imam Ghazali (RA), here you have deviated from his belief, have you read about that?

psyah

^ Peace IntelliPhant bhai

I see what you are saying, but I will clarify that I am not deviating from Imam Al-Ghazali, but if I had deviated from him then I would have good reason to do so, (if the majority of scholars and current knowledge mandate it).

If you mean that Imam Al-Ghazali was one of the pioneers of the idea that we are in control of our destiny then I agree with you that my discourse above does seem to go against that. But I assure you it does not.

I have actually written a monologue which I did so for my own sanity to explain the semantics of destiny and freedom of choice, but before I go into this please acknowledge whether this was the area you were talking about, or was it something else entirely?

IntelliPhant

I mentioned that in the light of your previous post where you talked about cause and effect. Imam Ghazali (RA) holds a different opinion with respect to cause and effects, we may discuss that in details. I am interested to see that monologue, or we may start a dialogue or a discussion about that so that we all know.

psyah

^ I'm not sure about the opinion of Imam Al-Ghazali, but to elaborate on what I said regarding cause and effect now considering a different perspective regarding whether there is an innateness or inherent nature to cause and effect the answer is no.

My answer above was in the framework of whether WE could separate cause and effect, rather than disassociate a cause from its effect due to the apparent nature of them.

It's like this that the knife does not cut ... Allah (SWT) does that. It just appears that way to us. Miracles in this respect are where cause and effect in normal situations are separated.

I answered the question in legalistic terms that we do something we face the consequences and the butterfly effect or the snowball effect ... but from the inherent nature of things argument I hold the view that nothing is inherent to the function we hold it for unless it has been given permission to function by Allah (SWT).

i.e. all causes and effect are not inherent but mediated by Allah (SWT) hence the term Qadr was used in the earlier post.

From one aspect we cannot physically unbind consequences, but from the conceptual stance we should not assume that such and such an action WILL mandate such a such a result, we but only say that it is a comfortable assumption to make.

From another angle everything we do is recorded on the Tablet, which should mean that is the effect of our actions, except that our actions don't make the pen work, rather the pen works by the leave of Allah(SWT).

Dushwari

cause from effect can arise, when there is nothing that the effects have sustained any longer, but the ultimate creation of a new cause.

belief from bias is something that entraps all prejudiced minds.

this is a belief too, that biases can be genuinely unlearnt.