Dushwari

Given the argument for destiny for the creation, which God is expected to have the creation come to at the end, what can be another reasoning for God to be quiet when the life on this earth, is killed not directly by God, but by God's creation?

why God is not present?
(God is present, but is not visible per se because of giving FULL power of free will, to strong people, who know no better than to exploit weaker life: case in point --> man made wars)

share serious and insightful, non judgemental ideas and perspectives on what must be going through God's mind, as God decides to just be an observer?

Gr8Heera

Again I want to anwer but I don't want to write something else and you asked something else.

dk_bagga

Please don't mind if I would hurt any one's sentiments by mistake.

I don,t know if God exists or not, if exists I don't know who is he or where is he.

Niksik

This life is a passing phase, a temporary life, according to Islam. We go through tests. Some big, some small. The fate of our permanent life is detrmined by our choices and actions in this temporary life.

I know what you are saying about God watching all the terrible things that happen today... remember that those who die in such events are martyrs. They may not even have to go through a regular judgement. So their reward is waiting for them. The rest of us...well we should struggle on a daily basis to self correct and work toward the right path.

Gr8Heera

He is in your heart.

That's why when we try to do anything wrong it says not to do that.

IntelliPhant

Dushwari, I understand what drives you to start a thread like this, any sensitive human being not involved in collecting perks of the wars or for that matter not involved in reaping the benefits out of the miseries of other fellow human beings would think the same way, anyone who may believes that God is just and has no way of proving it would fail to apprehend the absence of justice for God’s own creation, but those with certitude have never questioned the omnipresence of God and never have a shade of doubt that justice will prevail, if not in this world then hereafter. However, to speak about it we will have to go back and try to understand a few basic things;

1) Man is the finite junction of an infinite past and an infinite future, the effect of an infinite series of causes, the cause of an infinite series of effects. My sins are not merely my sins but a result of series of actions that someone took prior to my existence, and whose effects will linger on after I cease to exist as an entity, an absolute justice to what I did in context to what lead me to do that is not conceivable according to our standards, thus hard to prevail or exist. But if an absolute justice has to prevail, and so it will be God’s intervention on every bad step that I am taking or I would take would be the injustice to the very notion of justice itself.

2) God’s knowledge is creative. We know because things are; things are because God knows them. I am slave to my senses to acquire knowledge, my intelligence stems out of matter which has its limitation of not going beyond the reason of its existence, I see what is conceivable to my sight and hear what is audible to my capability, with my intelligence I may discover tools that may enable me to look beyond my bare eyes, to hear what I couldn’t hear otherwise but my inability to change future will be consistent even if I somehow know future in advance for it will change, and change it must.
An absolute justice is beyond our sight, we are unaware whether or not it is happening right now, what seems unjust with limited mortal sight might be justice in advance for we are slave of what we can conceive.

3) The world in which we live, perceive things and all that it contains has a reality independent of what we perceive. The creation of this world is “will” of God, and without understanding will of God, we can hardly understand anything else. Will in human beings stems out from its needs, desires, my will to see equality in the world would stem out either from my weakness thus a desire to be at par with other or my will for the equality among human beings stems out from a perception of being equal among equal and thus my desire that equality should prevail. But can this process of will be same as in God. God being eternal shall not have a will arising out of a need for God is beyond any need, any desire then must it be only but only a necessity. May God’s will pick one from two contraries? If so, and if it is arising from an absolute necessity, would it pick a bad one?.


p.s

We will keep talking Inshallah.

diwana

Man has the choice to do good or bad, God has the choice to let it happen.

Man will be judged of the the actions based upon the ability to perform. God has the choice to forgoe the judgement.

The judgement goes only one way from God to man and not from Man to God.

Existence of man is not a 'belief', existence of God is a 'belief'.

meena_s

why dont you see a director himself working in his film?? why does he stay back to the camera??

IntelliPhant

Is life that we live so scripted?

psyah

Peace

We must understand through faith that Allah(SWT) allows what ills to happen and generates what benefits to occur through His Mercy and Love.

How would we pray to God for help if we needed none?

How could sinners be accountable if no sin was allowed to manifest?

How could we appreciate the good if we could not see any bad?

By appreciating the good we appreciate the bounties of Allah(SWT)

If we made no crimes then how would we seek forgiveness? Allah(SWT) loves those who seek forgiveness.

If we had no harms in this world then all of our harms would have to be suffered in the Hereafter, when we suffer in this world the punishment in the Hereafter is reduced ... what chance is there for us to gain Jannah if we don't make up for some of our sins in this life?

Likewise ... this life is a mere moment to the true life ... God Knows what He does yet we do not know.

How could we be humble and prevent arrogant behaviour in ourselves if we did no wrong?

Look how many types of 'ibadah we would miss ... if life was perfect defect free

fbi786

Nusrat Fateh Ali khan ki qawaali .. Allah hoo Allah hoo ..

mein aap ka jawab hai ... in all aspects of this world .. the next and the spiritual world ...

sab se meri darkhaast hai k woh yeh qawaali sunein

Chaiwala

Every illness has a cure, and the cure to ignorance is knowledge.
Read.Research. You owe it to your gift of intelligence.

dk_bagga

I think that is not God, that some thing what we have learnt from the society where we have grown, if we would have grown in an evironment where we were tought to eat humans, we would do the same. and that would not be wrong according to us.

dk_bagga

I don't on what basis you saying.......I guess you are saying this because you were told that that is right. just think deeply and ask yourself that what you are saying is really your words or the society's words where you have grown..

dk_bagga

I am sorry, but which Research you are talking about.?

I don't know if I am not aware of reality. but I believe in only those logical things that can persuade me completly.....

junaid001

here is my ordinary take on it...


first understand the creation and then move on to creator...

if a human needs to find his creator which based on humans knowledge/capabilities couldnt be seen or found based on his (human) criteria or scale.
is it necessary what you seek comes before you instantly or be self evident based on ones benchmarks whenever you desire so or may be you have to work on it, or may do a human really have capabilities to physically identify God, may be these werent instilled in him/her by the creator.

can you see success, air, love etc you feel it, when on pain killers do you feel mild pains, No...

A human is a superb creation of God, i sometimes say to friends a human can be as weak as a thin thread or as strong mountain, Allah has given him everything its just him/her who has to know him/herself.

even a human is not all physical, and most important things that govern his life are not self evidential i.e his thoughts, his will, his desire these are all feelings, and a single mortal can have different at single point of time.

when a ordinary mortals goes to find God he/she is assuming he/she is supreme and has every tool to find Him .

for me signs of God are in mathematics, in the equilibrium world and universe goes around, and i know there is a balancing force in the universe...

so a human can not find his creator unless he allows him to and it is not necessary you would see him but you may feel him...

dk_bagga

Quote:

Originally Posted by junaid001 here is my ordinary take on it...

[quote=junaid001;6301537]


first understand the creation and then move on to creator...

if a human needs to find his creator which based on humans knowledge/capabilities couldnt be seen or found based on his (human) criteria or scale.

.

as you said human criteria is not enough to know the reality, it means human can never know the reality, that's why I go with my own criteria which is based logics defined by me only and no one till now has convinced me against it.

is it necessary what you seek comes before you instantly or be self evident based on ones benchmarks whenever you desire so or may be you have to work on it, or may do a human really have capabilities to physically identify God, may be these werent instilled in him/her by the creator.

on what basis you are saying this is really true.!! the source of your words is really logical or you are just assuming that that is true. think deeply is this your assumption that the source where you have gotton these words is really true source.

can you see success, air, love etc you feel it, when on pain killers do you feel mild pains, No...

A human is a superb creation of God, i sometimes say to friends a human can be as weak as a thin thread or as strong mountain, Allah has given him everything its just him/her who has to know him/herself.

I never saw love , becasue it is thing to realise not to see. How can you say it given by Allah, not generated by some random function of generatin, i am not saying it is not created by Allah but, still it is not confirmed to me that Allah has really created these things , because I don't know weather the things written is religious books are true or false, because I have no reason to admit that it is true.

even a human is not all physical, and most important things that govern his life are not self evidential i.e his thoughts, his will, his desire these are all feelings, and a single mortal can have different at single point of time.

when a ordinary mortals goes to find God he/she is assuming he/she is supreme and has every tool to find Him .

so what should he assume? and why should he assume that? and why why not what he is assuming?

for me signs of God are in mathematics, in the equilibrium world and universe goes around, and i know there is a balancing force in the universe...

so a human can not find his creator unless he allows him to and it is not necessary you would see him but you may feel him...

If human can not find his creator then why should he try to find? how can one believe that what you are saying is reaaly true.

I don't believe in any religion any cast any country , may be because I don't know about them , but I feel I know know something different from all that, that is most important for me. I have my own religion. only my religion. rule of that decision are made by me. I am not saying it is totally different from what is written is religious books , but I made that religion

IntelliPhant

^^Existence of , God, the supreme being has been discussed many a times on the pages GS, this thread is unique in itself because it is not questioning the existence of God, but God's silence with respect to prevailing injustice in this world.

What justification/s, within humanly possible rationality, can you come up with to explain why God, the omniscient, doesn't stop the powerful to commit crimes against the weak.

*HNK*

All i can say, watch Dr.Zakir Naik's lecture/speeches nd u will understand everything.

dk_bagga

I think you have known about my thinking about God. If you are asking why God is silent..then beacause I can think upto my best as a human only so I can come with following assumptions. and I do not know which is true::


1) God does not exist. this wold is created by a random function.
2)If God had Created this world then he/she is dead now
3)If God exists, then he is playing a game where we all are the characters of this game.
4)If God exists, then He is so intellegent, we can not think upto his level of thinking. and discussing these type of things are meaningless,