maha_maham

em not sure if this topic should be posted here cuz it definitely has nothing to do with philosophy or spirituality but im still going to go ahead n post it here cuz em sure i'll get some very good responses so here goes... some scientists say that homosexuality is heritable, however, there is no final consensus yet but i was just wondering that, if for the sake of argument, we consider the possibility that it IS heritable then what could be some of the problems that homosexuality pose from an evolutionary point of view and how could homosexuality be adaptive...............any thoughts???????

Numb

It is not heritable! All human being are born innocent and as Muslims. It's the people's devilish mind which shapes them to what they become!

Over and out!

pakifairy

omg are you serious Numb? that is so ignorant.

diwana

Is heterosexuality heritable?
Is lying heritable?
Is alcoholism heritable?
Is hurting someone heritable?
Is being bulley heritable?
....................................etc.

Sorry, just wanted to make a point.

Cheegum

Packyfairy, care to elaborate on how that is ignorant?

IMHO i don't think it is heritable. Its a state of mind picked up from your surroundings. The more you hear about it and the more you see it being accepted the more you gravitate towards it. When a lie is trumpeted so many times it starts to sound like the truth.

As for the human race, gay couples still do adopt kids and lesbian couples give birth using artificial insemination, so its not like there's a risk to the human population if suddenly the whole world decides to go gay. But long before that problem ever surfaces there will be many other unforeseen issues that will arise much sooner.

pakifairy

to say that something is inheritantely evil is just incredibly ignorant. just because one doesn't undrestand something doesn't mean they should say it is evil.

WitchDr

If homosexuality was heritable, than from evolutionary point of view it would have been in our heritage by now. Or at least there should have some sort of evidence that some sort of parthogenetic development is taking place.

pakifairy

so you are comparing someones sexual orientation to alcoholism and lying? what if someone compared heterosexuality to such negative things?

Numb

Give me an proof that homosexuality is heritable! Can gays and lebians get kids without the help of the opposite sex. Why do Homosexual people need other people to have kids. What a great thought and what a great CENTURY AND TIME we live in, right?

I have a mother, but my father is my mother, too so I have 2 mothers or 3?, 'snip' this world!
If I would live only with males or females, I would become gay or a lesbian someday, too.

I don't want to discuss about this sick topic! Being gay and lesbian is so contradicitng. It is just there to satisfy the earthly neccesity!

diwana

Very predictable quesstion since I did not edit my post despite thinking of it since my list had HETEROSEXUAL ORIENTATION as number one. This should have given you answer. Indeed you did not get it.

Here you go.


Is being generous heritable?
Is being merciful heritable?
Is being pious heritable?

These are 'positive' traits of mind.


Got it?

Ok your next sentense what if some .......

Is based on misperception again. My post did not compare homosexuality to negative traits only. It compared homosexuality to heterosexuality also and despite heteresexuality was on the top of list you decided to dwell on negative traits.

What does that show? You are being unnecessarily passionate and argumentary in your approach without getting the point.

Again the emphasis was on heritability and not being negative or positive. Hope you got the point of my first post. :-)

jaanaan

not really

Numb

^

come with facts, not with that

IntelliPhant

I want to make few points too, rather points to ponder.

1) Is there a chemical and moral nutritious value difference between a pound of Halal chicken, and a pound of Haram chicken?

2) What does food do to our body, is it merely a chemical reaction for the biological growth and sustenance or it also interacts with moral and spiritual growth or values as well.

3) Human genes are static in nature or they go thorough changes and mutations also?

4) If human genes do change or mutate, can Halal food, and also Halal relationship brings about positive mutation, and Haram food or Haram relationship bring about negative change?

5) Why our deen (Islam) says that Namaz ( If done with the way it should) forbids you from bad deeds, how a ritual stops you from a bad habit?

6) What percentage of our personality do our kids acquire?

7) If I lie and succeeded in acquiring what I intend to acquire by way of lying, would I stop there or keep lying again and again. If I keep lying would it change my moral being alone or would it make some chemical changes or genetic mutation that will create hormonal stimulus to lie as and when needed.

7) If hormonal stimulus for lying has become part of my body chemistry, shall I not pass it to my kids?

8) Now connect the dots.

pakifairy

saying that something is evil/haram without even understanding it without facts is just as pointless Numb. So, you come with the facts. Not that.

psyah

If the question that is asked about "homosexuality being heritable" means that it can be passed from generation to generation like a trait. Then the answer is naturally 'no' because in order for 'inheritance' one needs to have heterosexual parents. Without intervention homosexuality should naturally die off. Of course with modern technology that can be overcome. Assuming the idea is that males are selected for their manliness to be specimens this reduces the likelihood or offspring being homosexual, supposing still that sexual orientation is genetic. Either way this question cannot be answered without comparing it with the tendancy to being heritable as much as heterosexuality is, if it is. Only by compaing the dynamics of the two can one assess the full impact.

Already we see that homosexuality comes and goes and it does not die off, we also see this happening in offspring of normal sexual encounters. So how can it be genetically induced?

If by 'heritable' you mean that it is acquired by social upbringing and hence homosexuals will bring up like persons then may be there is a point to consider. Even then what is the effect as compared to the heterosexual variety.

Sexual orientation is subject to

a) natural inclination (hormones, psyche, etc)
b) parenting
c) environment and indulgence

By thinking about something it increases its tendancy, by doing it likewise with more potency.

Our natural condition should put a bias in our natural orientation, even gays like very attractive females for example.

What however will happen is that with increased acceptance of sexual liberty more than homosexuals will be resulting in society but many other forms of sexual deviancy.

diwana

Great questions. Let me try to answer.

1) Absolutely not and cannot be proven either way.

2) Absolutely not and cannot be proven either way.

3) Yes they do. But repair process is also constant as far as I understand.

4) Absolutely not and cannot be proven either way.

5) You said the way it should.

Whatever the way.

Its not the namaz itself as a ritual,

its the thinking and exrta time spent just to observe namaz (during which the person thinks he/she is praying for supreme force)

........which brings a person to think about other things he/she might be doing in his/her life .........

......and sit back and look at his/her deeds and make a judgement if whatever he/she is doing is right or wrong.


6) Depends on how much time we spend on our kids and tell them what is what. Having said that we must not forget that...

A-Noah Had a son who did not agree with his father.

B- Azar was the father of Ibrahim. Azar who built statues/idols. Ibrahim who broke them.

I am sure you got the point.

7) If anyone lies and succeeds, surely that person has more likely chance to lie. Hope that this was not the question you really intended.

Now, Lying and chemical changes connection.

Answer:

Absolutely not and cannot be proven either way.


7) again, or 8)?

If hormonal stimulus for lying has become part of my body chemistry,.........

Its an assumption and question that follows has no legs to stand on.




Basic problem here is that we are assuming that we are doing things based on some physical/chemical/geneticasl reason.

True to some extent. But when it comes to behavioral part such as lying or whatever, we just do not have no evidence for it and no one can prove it otherwise.

Hence to many of your questions I answered the way I answered.


If we start blaming our actions on genes/chemicals/parental or maternal habits then it will eventually lead to a situation of irresponsibility of actions and interestingly, this cannot be proven in any way or be refuted.

diwana

Agree with most of your post but i need to clarify the red part.

I have no idea why people take homosexuality as an exclusive trait of having a person engaged in sexual activity with the person of same sex?


Come on people!

Homosexual people does not mean they cannot procreat or will never have sex with opposite partner.

Homosexuals are............

1-married,
2-happily married,
3-have sexual partners of opposite sex, even without being 'bisexual'
4-have many kids,
5-Do not want to marry,
6-Never had sex with opposite sex but had wish they had kids,
7-Are full of gulity feeling but cannot help it, and find anything which brings any so called excuse for their behavior attractive.

psyah

^ You are right but we are talking in axioms ... which say that in an "open" society a homosexual will not need to be hiding under the guise of a family.

There is a commentary or some sort of riwaya about liwata (the act of homosexuals) in that the more ones engages in it the more he desires it and despises the normality.

It is considered a disease of the heart.

You will see in the West more gays are exclusive to this sexuality however in 'good' societies the form you mention is more commonplace.

diwana

There is no such thing as 'axiom'. Its all relative.
The word axiom is merely a reference point or a neutral definition.



Yes to bold part. 'Evil' begets evil and 'good' begets good.
That's what you mean I think.


But disagree with what you wrote in 'red'.

Since where ever the person is in,..... so called 'east' or 'west', ultimately the negative connotation attached to being homosexual can affect a person's behavior enough to hide it. More or less is not known and can just be based on what we are told.

NeSCio

there was a parallel thread in Health Forum on this topic; please see my posts in that thread for the genetic possibilities of homosexuality (of course those might not be true, but one cannot simply refute the possibility of genes underlying this trait...)