Can animals commit suicide?

Jihadi · Mar 9th, 2009, 12:22 AM

I've always wondered that!!!?? I read a study once, that animals can experience a profound feeling of sadness when their play/hunt/sex partner dies.
So can they commit suicide?

Gohan · Mar 9th, 2009, 12:32 AM

I'm sure if one of my nieces ever get a pet it will commit suicide.

kali billi · Mar 9th, 2009, 12:40 AM

desi ostrich · Mar 9th, 2009, 12:43 AM

i dont think but

dukh ka izhar tu kertay hain

IntelliPhant · Mar 9th, 2009, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jihadi

I've always wondered that!!!?? I read a study once, that animals can experience a profound feeling of sadness when their play/hunt/sex partner dies.
So can they commit suicide?

The answer lies in the difference among human and animals about awareness of life, "conscious self awareness" is found only in human beings, while an "instinct awareness of life" is found in animals. Any change in preordained instinct is a result of conscious departure from genetic inclination, animals are not capable of that.

Mirch · Mar 9th, 2009, 09:32 AM

bitter_reality · Mar 9th, 2009, 10:45 AM

The winged ants called " PARWANA" in urdu also comit suicide and burn themselves in fire.

hollowman · Mar 9th, 2009, 10:50 AM

ya, its quite true.. once my uncle and his family migrated to US leaving their pet dog behind, but within a week he was in depression and then jumped out of the balcony.

IntelliPhant · Mar 9th, 2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollowman

ya, its quite true.. once my uncle and his family migrated to US leaving their pet dog behind, but within a week he was in depression and then jumped out of the balcony.

The ratiocination of labeling this incident " suicide" is quite jaw-dropping, one has to be consciously aware of "self", and that too with an acquired conviction that one who has conceived the phenomenon of "self" is also in control of going against the instinct which would otherwise defend that "self" at all/any cost.

IntelliPhant · Mar 9th, 2009, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitter_reality

The winged ants called " PARWANA" in urdu also comit suicide and burn themselves in fire.

What would a baby do if you give her a drop of mercury?

NJMasti · Mar 9th, 2009, 11:40 AM

I don't know about suicide... but I know they cry!!!!! Seriously.

I have seen animals cry during Bakra ID, when they see the other animals right in front of them killed.

It's good that they do not act out on their emotions and go beserk killing/fighting everybody. I still remember the cow with big tears rolling down and standing in the corner, while her buddy was dragged out and finished.

It was sad

psyah · Mar 11th, 2009, 12:08 PM

Peace All

It is impossible for animals to commit suicide ... at least this is what my horse sense tells me ... it is because in order for animals to kill themselves they need to be aware of their own selves to do it.

Of course animals can go into depression and die or accidentally go into flames because they know no better, but the concept to commit suicide is a thing attached to the mind of humans only I believe.

Of course I am quite fluid to alter my stance should it be shown otherwise.

Mirch · Mar 11th, 2009, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psyah

Peace All

It is impossible for animals to commit suicide ... at least this is what my horse sense tells me ... it is because in order for animals to kill themselves they need to be aware of their own selves to do it.

Of course animals can go into depression and die or accidentally go into flames because they know no better, but the concept to commit suicide is a thing attached to the mind of humans only I believe.

Of course I am quite fluid to alter my stance should it be shown otherwise.

Watch the video I posted above the last few minutes show rats committing suicide. They are jumping to drown. I watched a program on Discovery channel where they showed this .

K337 · Mar 11th, 2009, 02:49 PM

funny question

TLK · Mar 11th, 2009, 02:55 PM

Very good thread ..

I read somewhere about some animals have the tendency of doing it .. dont remember which specie or breed was that, and how the researchers figured that out. I will come back to this thread soon with that material if I can find it.

psyah · Mar 11th, 2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirch

Watch the video I posted above the last few minutes show rats committing suicide. They are jumping to drown. I watched a program on Discovery channel where they showed this .

Peace Mirch

The lemmings in the video according to the commentator are not committing suicide, but are moving through an urge and by accident fall or tumble into their demise. However, they still swim to get away. And if any find safety they will survive.

It still shows that those animals are not committing suicide rather they cannot do so because they are not self-aware. It is a clockwork mechanism designed to make them migrate not to kill themselves that drives them to do dangerous things.

Humans commit suicide purely for the reason of them not being happy in this world. Animals do not do that I think. So the video does not satisfy me sorry.

FrozenFire · Mar 11th, 2009, 06:31 PM

very thought provoking question.

diwana · Mar 11th, 2009, 10:48 PM

Agree with psyah here. The video by no means suggest suicide by these animals.

Suicide means intentionally, knowingly taking own life.

Animals are incapable of doing so.

The reason is obvious. Just read the words in bold.

Animals have not been shown to have the awareness of life and death.

Hence they cannot be considered committing homicide either.

All they know is how to inflict severe damage to the enemy without knowing the consequences.

An animal with seemingly depressed atittude and not eating (or even jumping from height) does not know and cannot know the consequences.

Hence does not commit suicide per se.

Chicken Biryani · Mar 19th, 2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJMasti

I don't know about suicide... but I know they cry!!!!! Seriously.

I have seen animals cry during Bakra ID, when they see the other animals right in front of them killed.

It's good that they do not act out on their emotions and go beserk killing/fighting everybody. I still remember the cow with big tears rolling down and standing in the corner, while her buddy was dragged out and finished.

It was sad

I agree with Psyah , but can someone please explain me this concept that NJ has mentioned ... I have always had this fear that animals feel the hurt when other animals are killed in front of them ..... is that so?

psyah · Mar 19th, 2009, 12:53 PM

^ Peace Chicken Biryani

What I know is that the adab of sacrifice is to tease the animal away from the rest of the flock, so they cannot see it slaughtered. Give it a drink of water, blind fold it so it cannot see the blade.

So it must affect them.