IntelliPhant

Has philosophy of hedonism contributed towards the creation of a very individualistic society that human race is witnessing today?

Who is the biggest beneficiary of this philosophy an individual, always in quest for pleasure, or a big business always in quest of more control?

ravage

pleasure can be more sophisticated than venal pleasures and so on. it can include pleasure derived from communal and family love etc. utilitarianism can be seen as a kind of hedonism, and its not necessarily individualistic.

diwana

^ Yes and let me add few;

Hedonistic behavior commonly is taken in negative context. Not necessarily true.

It can be at individual level or 'national' or collective level.

It basically means openness to being happy. Allowing one to obtain pleasure.

It is a driving force to keep moving on.

If sex was not associated with pleasure then.....??

Nothing wrong or immoral about it as long as the vehicle used to obtain pleasure is correct.

Opposite of Hedonism is Asceticism I think.

Some people take religion (especially Islam) as something which promotes Asceticism which is not really true but on the surface it does appear so.



Extreme of both are detrimental to progress and healthy life.



The answer to first question is no, not really.

ravage

^ yeap. one opposite of hedonism can be considered to be asceticism (denying yourself pleasure), another is idealism. hedonism/utilitarianism regards actions as good or bad based on their consequences of bringing pleasure or pain. idealism regards consequences as irrelevant, and finds good or bad of the action in the action itself.

IntelliPhant

I agree with both of you, pleasure is beyond basic instinct; way beyond manifestation of animal libido alone, yet both of you have missed the nectar, a real question under a superficial understanding of hedonism.

Any ideology, philosophy or even a medication is developed for some intended results, some times even with due diligence in the process forming an ideology, un-intended off-shoots or by-products are either not conceived or underestimated, yet when ideology is absorbed into the culture, un-intended results overshadow the intended results.

To my understanding a deformed perception of hedonism as “a never ending quest to seek pleasure” has been absorbed into global culture without giving any consideration to academic debate of quantitative, qualitative, utilitarianism or ethics in the path to seek pleasure.

Quest to seek pleasure and that too in the name of happiness is a morbid ideology capable of injecting venom of “individuality” into the fabric of human social structure; it manifests itself into a twisted form of the conception of ego or “I”, which invariably puts an individual ahead of anything when it comes to collecting the perks, thus helps in the creation of society that believes in accumulation of objects or resources for individuals.

Islam identifies true path to happiness in gratification, a philosophy of eternal happiness as oppose to pleasure out of seeking more and more. My second question went un-notices.

diwana

I think what you have talked about the extreme of hedonism which I mentioned is futile.

Its a healthy trait of mind which makes both 'individuals' and group of people to seek something better and get benefit.

It has led to human being obtain and create many good things.

Struggle by one person to seek something better to make him happy has spread to benefit masses.

Keeping balance between two opposites is even better path.

Answer to second question was attached to answer to the first.

ravage

To talk about a 'deformed perception of hedonism''s purported effects in a thread titled 'Philosophy of hedonism is akin to talking about 'a deformed perception of Islam''s purported effects in a thread titled "Religion of Islam"

Sure modern society is individualistic and increasingly capitalist/materialist, but you cant really say that philosophy of hedonism is motivating that. I would say that the problem is that there is no philosophy motivating that. people dont really think in terms of philosophy or religion all that much in the specific sort of instances you're talking about.

Dushwari

not necessarily. a more recoiled concept is that of anhedonia, lack of interest and disbelief in everything around oneself. isolation could be caused by too much of an interdependent or probing environment. when that happens, the best of the best self-composed individual may break, because there is severe interference in the life of that organism.
hedonistic mind set is a beggar to struggles, strife which may have no end in sight, ever, because the object of happiness may keep changing always and more may seem like less than ever.

thus, the idea of hedonism grows out of its dominance and the replacement is a sense of awry and ornery dismay or dejection. That eats the person and strip the person of own personal natural emotions to feel empathy or a sense of sacrifice, even reasonable sacrifice for human relations. Why? Because of the over run emphasis on the same and the consequent irritation of that gets caused can take the person away from everybody, for good.

it is a mental snap shot of the pieces in which an otherwise able-to-feel-content person is forced to leave the marks of an inlaid sense of external repugnance to anything and everything normative, customary and obligatory or traditionalist.

when anhedonia is caused, nothing can reverse it. and its effects include more and more materialistic buffers either in work or at play, to simply tune out all life and people or their influence on oneself, from the personal, isolated living.

as dark as it sounds, it could be that much lighter on the person who is totally dejected from all things usual and pressurizing.

so, to answer your interesting query and its in built dynamics of opposite concepts, it may suffice to say that there are greater things than hoarding or amassing wealth, which may be the purpose to dissuade some things which are deeply troublesome to a person for a long time, and when that vengeful thought process is evoked, no –ism, no moral continuum may succeed in subsiding the effects of what has been set in motion, for long time, i.e., utter disregard for anything known, because of utter disregard in being un-understood, if you will.

thoughts?

IntelliPhant

It is very true that people don’t pay attention, don’t explore the cause and don’t generally question integrity of the norms of the society, majority of the people that constitute a society walk blindly on the net of social norms. One out of million would dare to question one of the established traditions and, my friend; one out of hundreds of millions may come up with a philosophy which later becomes an established norm.

An ideology intended for a social change does not and should not target every individual of the society, it only targets opinion leaders, once an opinion leader becomes a proponent of a culture, a herd of mindless followers follows regardless of the impact, regardless of the consequences, thus a culture of blind social faith is generated and once deeply rooted, it becomes a norm.

Culture of hedonism within the most affluent segments of society has been accepted and has given birth to a culture of greed in the middle class of the society. The lower and lower middle class of the global society has been forced to commit either social or moral crimes to follow culture of the classes above them.

Last but not least, I don’t see any issue in discussing positive or negative perception of the religion of Islam under the title “religion of Islam”, I may be wrong but there can be as many point of views as many people discussing a point of view, all different, all contending yet all falling under the marquee of same subject.

IntelliPhant

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Anhedonia or inability to enjoy can have more than many reasons; it is, however, a reaction to a cause that varies for individuals. For example, a very intelligent person can psychologically be pushed into anhedonia by the perception of futility of hedonic circle, or one with GAD can try to find refuge into anhedonia, though will only end up adding to his worries. Anhedonia, in my opinion, is a personality disorder that does not contribute to the formulation of the social culture.

Like you said in your post, isolation can happen because of too much interdependent or probing environment which resonates exactly with my point of view that a society of individuals, how so ever thriving or depressed it may be is a symptom cause of which can be one or an enchilada of epicenters and unfortunately hedonism is one of them.

Futility of an endeavor to achieve happiness when object of happiness will change as soon as achieved is obvious yet remains misconceived because of ephemeral euphoria and sense of glory associated with the achievement, unfortunately the prevalent global culture has failed to introduce an ideology capable of stopping the proponents or participants of hedonism falling into anhedonic disorder when reality of futility strikes them.

Dushwari

refreshing, intelliphant.

Dushwari

refreshing, intelliphant. all discourse, well taken.

the personality disorder could be a brain child of the social patterns of expectations, insistence, rat race and of so many competing conscious and unconscious motives, individual and collective. breakthrough of anhedonia is only a buffer, even if undesired.
but, it is true that hedonism is partly responsible for isolation as well.
yet, the interference of people instead of objects is a lot more damaging.
if hedonism has to be controlled, people must first change in their behaviors, towards each other and be more self aware of their responsibility to watch out for fair shares of each other in the common wealth which is consumed in our day and age, in rather a very off keltered manner.

diwana

Interesting thoughts above.

Seeking happiness itself is not evil as I mentioned. Its the amount and methods which need to be controlled. ( Read Ethical Egoism)

I will go further:
Hedonism (seeking pleasure) is a trait of almighty. He orders us to please him. He was just not satisfied by angels doing the same job.

This is the quality we are all going to have in heaven. (no remorse)..and is promised if we satisfy almighty's advice.

IntelliPhant

[QUOTE=diwana;6616387]Interesting thoughts above.

Seeking happiness itself is not evil as I mentioned. Its the amount and methods which need to be controlled. ( Read Ethical Egoism)/QUOTE]

True



The word “seek” can not be defined or conceived independent or exclusive of an effort, and pleasure on the successful conclusion of that effort can not be without acknowledgment of the materialization of that effort.

The pleasure associated with “seek” is not objectively in the achievement of the target of ‘seek” but in the psychological exuberance yoked with fruition of the effort and that is why we adopt and forget about achieved material object quickly yet can still take pleasure in the remembrance of the path to seek that object. With that understood, Allah does not “seek” pleasure; neither quest for satisfaction is Allah’s trait or desire.

Our endeavor to seek pleasure stems out of our inability to thwart our philosophical perception of being powerless. Howsoever flawed it might be, it finds refuge in possession of material objects, it may manifest itself in becoming a salve of animal instinct, in ostentation, in socio-political power or in wealth

afishcurry

I think yes.. Even the relligiously devout ones are doing all the religious chores in order to seek abode in pleasureful heaven. That's why I call religiously devot ones who seem to be ascetic in this word are the greatest hedonists.

Dushwari

a very poignant perspective, afishcurry.

IntelliPhant

Thanks and I do agree that overall impression of a society is a mirror reflection of the behavior of the individuals of that society.

Inspiration for good or bad behavior can be an interesting topic to talk about.

IntelliPhant

Thought provoking but very debatable.

diwana

[QUOTE=IntelliPhant;6621485]Yes. I agree seek is not really the word which could be attributed to almighty.

However, creation of mankind (a material object) had nothing but one intention. Achievement of pleasure by almighty. Much more than seeing angels worshiping.

Also as I mentioned earlier, the hedonistic trait/property/instinct is created in mankind to perform certain acts to achieve pleasure in heaven. We all know heavenly life will be based on nothing but pleasure.

This delayed pleasure is what is promised to 'pious' people by almighty.

(The pious people do claim they get pleasure out of performing what is required by them on earth!)

In the end, both creator and creation is after pleasure. Means, method, and timing is different. Isn't it? :-)

I am trying to make a point here that hedonistic behavior is not necessarily bad or 'animalistic' if the vehicle used to obtain it is under control.

psyah

Interesting discussion here:

I would like to put across my perspective from an Islamic slant and hopefully clarify some of the above said also:

The problem Islam has with hedonism is not because hedonism is pleasure seeking, but because it appoints pleasure as a god other than Allah (SWT), that it allows the human mind and heart to choose it's course in life instead of submitting to the Will of God exclusively, i.e. whether it is pleasurable do so or not.

Asceticism is really only a tool to bend hedonistically influenced Muslims back to a central condition - to be balanced.

Religion or Islam is pleasure promoting, but at the same time it contextualises it ... forsaking immediate gratification for a greater pleasure in the Hereafter. Hedonism has no scope for an Afterlife, it's tenets are limited to this world and this life. Islam is also comforting for those in pain, promoting forebearance, whereas hedonism offers no olive branch to them and promotes instead people to change in times of hardship instead of forebearance.

Hedonism is the actual religion of most Atheists, especially those who know nothing of science, and moreso those who specialise in it, because they aught to know better.