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    1. #1
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      I read a lot of rape cases in the newspapers in Pakistan. Also i head a lot of rape cases in Arab countries in Saudi Arabia specially with children. In UK and USA also there are lot.

      Some people says that in Islamic countries its more because they are not so open in mixing with women. Indians are also blaming Muslim countries.

      But i know that it is more in non Muslim countries.

      Can any body make a ration analysis of this crime. Where it is more whether in open society or so called closed society.

    2. #2
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ali Usman View Post
      I read a lot of rape cases in the newspapers in Pakistan. Also i head a lot of rape cases in Arab countries in Saudi Arabia specially with children. In UK and USA also there are lot.

      Some people says that in Islamic countries its more because they are not so open in mixing with women. Indians are also blaming Muslim countries.

      But i know that it is more in non Muslim countries.

      Can any body make a ration analysis of this crime. Where it is more whether in open society or so called closed society.
      i think it depends on whether it is reported or not. i know that in pakistan, most of the time rape is probably not reported due to social implications so there is no way of knowing how common it is.
      moreover, i think there is no way of knowing if it happens more in open or closed societies and personally i don't think it should matter because it is wrong in any case.
      having said that, I think in Pakistan and muslim countries rape may be for sexual motives since it is forbidden to practice it outside of a marriage, but also men seem to rape sisters/females to get revenge on their enemies in pakistan and similar areas like india, which is rarely the case in the west.
      india is not any different from pakistan. in their society sex isn't practiced outside of marriage either.
      also i think rape would be less common in the west not because people practice sex more freely, because the punishment for it is very severe compared to countries like pakistan or india.

    3. #3
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      Well I can totally analyze this but there is no use. Pll flood these thread with so much unnecessary info that real point get lost.
      ﺃﷲ ﻧﯣﺮ ﺇﺴﻣﺇﯣﺇﺕ ﯣﺇﻠﺄﺮﺾ_""And [by] the even [number] and the odd"(al-Quran)

    4. #4
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      But all Indian are claiming that there society is not like Pakistan, they say that they are open minded also they say that few Muslim areas in India like Delhi, Agra, Ahmedabad could have some similarities like Pakistan but others like Goa, Kerala, Chinai are very open they never have a rape news there.

      But any how i know that they are wrong. We can prove that it is wrong that Muslim countries has more rape cases because of there closed culture.

      USA & UK are open countries but they have also rape cases. Am i wrong?

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      Ali get this.
      1-In west ppl get to do it.
      2-normal cities police is always few mins away.
      3-When dudes go to jail and don't find it, the do S with men. Straight men in jails rape men
      When they come out they become straight again.
      ﺃﷲ ﻧﯣﺮ ﺇﺴﻣﺇﯣﺇﺕ ﯣﺇﻠﺄﺮﺾ_""And [by] the even [number] and the odd"(al-Quran)

    6. #6
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      We do not have a closed culture. We have a civilized culture. Closed culture is their's , where they have stopped seeing all ethical aspects being a human... let alone being a son, bro, father, husband, wife, sis, mother....n other relations.

      Its not a liberal or open cutlure where you move around in markets with open chest and naked legs. its portrays the cave age when human was not civilzed enough to know how to dress up n cover his body. its in Quran to cover your bodies n protect your Sharam-Gahs (pvt parts).

      What i call a liberal, open and advance culture is when you are advanced in technology, in education, when your life style is better than what ppl had 100s yrs back. Mere making you naked only shows how frustrated and mad you are at your birth.

      As far as rape ratio is concerned.. cant provide that. but you should know these non-muslim socities take Rape and Non-marital relations as two diff things. for me both cause the same harm to society. so while discussing the ratio of rape in such places, we should combine the ratio of non-marital illegal relations and rape cases.

      All we muslims need is to read, learn and understand our culture n religion.
      ~~~~Sometimes in the middle of an ordinary life, love gives us a FairyTale~~~~

    7. #7
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      India is worst example of any cultures. Its so pathetic like their religion that you will puke when u hear to the real stories. .. sorry to say but it is really. Do not look at what they show on TV only.

      My indian colleague told me that in her place back in india, if a gal owns lots of property (i.e from dowry etc), n if her husband dies, to keep her property at home, n that it doesnt go to anyone else, even the father in law is allowed to marry her. and such marriages happen often. Now imagine what the hell? they wont ever call it father in law raping her daughter in law. will they? Who needs such culture?

      Also their widows are not allowed to re-marry in many places. No matter how old she is and how much time she has spent with her hubby, may be just one night. She is not allowed as per their religion or culture. Is it not very likely that she will fell into relationships with other men? After all she is human too.
      ~~~~Sometimes in the middle of an ordinary life, love gives us a FairyTale~~~~

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      ^
      Combining the incidences of rape and pre-marital relations does not yield anything. They are two different things- one has consent, the other does not. That is a HUGE difference. In rape, there is a victim. In consensual relationships, there are no victims.

      Let's not be so judgemental of Indian culture/religion. What's disgusting to one, is normal to another. It's all about perspective. As an example,

      --The West finds first-cousin marriages gross-Muslims do not.
      --Muslims find some 'Indian' practices gross- those 'Indians' do not.
      --Indians probably find some tribal African practices gross- those Africans do not.

    9. #9
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      ^ agree princess about the gross part. but how would u compare FIL marrying his DIL to cousin marriage?

      ^ I said pre-marital and rape both cause the same harm to society. With consent or without, both are equally wrong.

      Islam doesnt force you for cousin marriage. its better to marry outside your family but then there is permission for cousin marriage too. But MIL marrying SIL , FIL marrying DIL or all that.. thats nonesense. Not only gross but highly unethical and inhuman.

      My point is that our culture is not closed or backward. So plz do not be in any kind of inferiority complex.
      ~~~~Sometimes in the middle of an ordinary life, love gives us a FairyTale~~~~

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      Quote Originally Posted by Ali Usman View Post
      But all Indian are claiming that there society is not like Pakistan, they say that they are open minded also they say that few Muslim areas in India like Delhi, Agra, Ahmedabad could have some similarities like Pakistan but others like Goa, Kerala, Chinai are very open they never have a rape news there.

      But any how i know that they are wrong. We can prove that it is wrong that Muslim countries has more rape cases because of there closed culture.

      USA & UK are open countries but they have also rape cases. Am i wrong?
      usman,
      rape is something which is not simply the product of one area or region. The west experiences it from those who are just sexually depraved, in the US people understand when a girl will meet yopu for lunch it does not mean she wants any more and a NO is a NO.
      in pakistan, the perception is of total control by men, and the laws of proving the rape are so diffuicult that it is impossible to prove it. there also is no protection of the victim if he or she is a minor and we report the whole family potrait in every newspaper.
      in the US people convicted of sexual crimes are on a public list and have to report their residences, hence everyone knows who lives in their neighborhood.
      lastly i visited india about a year ago, the one thing that stands out in their society which is desprately missing, is that women are actually respected in most areas regardless of what line of work they are in, business, doctors, nurses or cleaning the streets. on my last trip to pakistan in 07, i still see a rampant disease os if a women does anything other then practiceas a doctor or a school teacher, she is somehow looked at as women of lesser morals and values and should be taken advantage of

    11. #11
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      I am not saying about the registered rapes but the overall rapes in the society.

      I know that in India the ratio of rape is very high, even they are so called very open minded non Muslims. In India rape is in every minuet. They are so called cultured democratic secular broad minded highly educated people.

    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by FairyTale View Post
      As far as rape ratio is concerned.. cant provide that. but you should know these non-muslim socities take Rape and Non-marital relations as two diff things. for me both cause the same harm to society. so while discussing the ratio of rape in such places, we should combine the ratio of non-marital illegal relations and rape cases.

      All we muslims need is to read, learn and understand our culture n religion.
      simply brilliant.
      Simple ain't easy.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Ali Usman View Post
      I read a lot of rape cases in the newspapers in Pakistan. Also i head a lot of rape cases in Arab countries in Saudi Arabia specially with children. In UK and USA also there are lot.

      Some people says that in Islamic countries its more because they are not so open in mixing with women. Indians are also blaming Muslim countries.

      But i know that it is more in non Muslim countries.

      Can any body make a ration analysis of this crime. Where it is more whether in open society or so called closed society.
      How do u know it is more in non-Muslim countries? I don't know if there's any correlation between sexual harassment and sexual crime but if there was I'd guess the levels of rape and other sexual crime might be higher in Muslim countries. Like someone else pointed out rape is also used as a 'punishment' in certain places as well as being a crime in itself and because women shy away from reporting it cos of the social stigma, the thought of not being taken seriously, being blamed themselves for 'provoking' the attack in some way, having their moral character torn to shreds, the threat of being punished for 'adultery' (yes, it happens if the moron who raped her says it was consensual), difficulty in proving what happened cos less in the way of dna testing etc. the would-be rapists in these countries are prob not as deterred as they would be in the West..

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      Quote Originally Posted by FairyTale View Post
      India is worst example of any cultures. Its so pathetic like their religion that you will puke when u hear to the real stories. .. sorry to say but it is really. Do not look at what they show on TV only.

      My indian colleague told me that in her place back in india, if a gal owns lots of property (i.e from dowry etc), n if her husband dies, to keep her property at home, n that it doesnt go to anyone else, even the father in law is allowed to marry her. and such marriages happen often. Now imagine what the hell? they wont ever call it father in law raping her daughter in law. will they? Who needs such culture?

      Also their widows are not allowed to re-marry in many places. No matter how old she is and how much time she has spent with her hubby, may be just one night. She is not allowed as per their religion or culture. Is it not very likely that she will fell into relationships with other men? After all she is human too.
      These twisted things happen amongst ourselves as well, I know of many Muslim families where widows whilst Islamically they have the right to remarry are pressured not to cos of society and 'what will people think'. Honestly speaking whilst Muslim men usually do remarry after death or divorce how many of the women do?? The father-in-law marrying the girl thing is pretty sick but then again ppl say that those child marriages some Muslims in villages bk home practice are just as bad, I mean a 9yr-old can be married off to a 40 or 50yr-old so Dad can settle a gambling debt or cos the new husband is rich and paid a large dowry or even the promising of two cousins to be married to each other (even when they are still children) without asking their consent just to maintain 'family ties.' Like princessjojo said we shouldn't be so judgemental when there is so much stuff going on in our own culture that can be viewed as just as bad, if not worse.
      Last edited by Deeba1234; Jun 7th, 2009 at 11:34 PM.

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      Non-marital illegal relations and rape are two completely different things. The two can't be compared. In pre-marital sex there is CONSENT.

      I'm no expert in this matter nor have I done research, but I would think the incidences of rape would be higher in countries like Pakistan/India because of the extreme restrictions placed on men and women.

      Not only that, the way rape cases (if reported) are dealt with in Pakistan is absolutely shameful. Anytime a victim reports a rape in Pakistan, she is automatically blamed and accused of committing adultery and thrown in Jail or stoned/slashed or burned. I'm very saddened when I hear the numerous stories like this that happen everyday in Pakistan and there is absolutely no justice for victims of rape. At least in North America, rape cases are investigated through proper channels and rapists, if convicted, end up doing time in prison.

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      question:

      If you are raped does the stoning/slashing still apply to you? I hope not. Anyway i would love to see specific verses or hadiths. And what about the rapest, if he/she come out about it or whatever, what happens to them, it is more then a 100 slashes?

      And since we are talking about adultery, is it true that if you never come out about committing adultery that you will not have to be punished in this world? And what if someone accuses you wrongly then what???? How do you prove, do you even get the chance?

    17. #17
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      Obviously you aren't punished for a crime you did not commit. How can the punishment for zina apply to a rape victim.

      As for rulings on adultery, its confession and false accusations - I don't think life1 is the place to get authentic information - do your research out of GS.
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      Gaia as far as I know in Islam a victim of rape would not be slashed/stoned...the rapist is the one that is supposed to be punished.

      In reality, rarely does the above ever happen in Muslim countries. Men have all the power in Muslim countries and they abuse their power. They interpret the Quran to suit their own misogynist views ...and this is how unfortunately women get punished for being raped!

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