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    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
    Results 1 to 18 of 27
    1. #1
      SalmanNY

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      My father has great respect for shia's. Me too. I have my best friend and business partner as shia. I have a question to ask to all the civilized/educated shia community @ gupshup.

      I personally get so irritated and disgusted whenever Xtreme shia's do matam and injure/hurt/bleed their selves. Especially when they are living in America and other European countries. What is the need here to do that? Isn't the need of the time to show how peaceful Muslims are? Why we have to show the world that how radical and how extreme we are?

      Why shia's have to take the bloody bath in front of thousand's of cameras? I have nothing against 'Jaloos' and matam for Moula Hussain. I have personally attended those Majalis and 'Jaloos', but it just utterly disgusts me when it comes to killing in the name of some living being.

      If you want to go that extreme and hurt your self, then do it in the name of Allah s.w.t. EVEN THEN a we are NOT allowed by ANY means to hurt ourselves. Allah has given us this life and Allah will take it back. It is HIS ammant in this duniya. HE has NEVER allowed us in ANY circumstances to hit/cut/bleed ourselves in any circumstances.

      I want to know the stand of my sister/brother shia people here. Especially from brother SherazCT and other active shia' guppies.

      I apologize if my post would hurt your feelings by any means but Allah knows what are my intentions to write this post.
      JazzakAllah.
      -Salman

    2. #2
      Senior Member
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      NeSCio's Avatar
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      Originally posted by SalmanNY:
      My father has great respect for shia's. Me too. I have my best friend and business partner as shia. I have a question to ask to all the civilized/educated shia community @ gupshup.
      here you're saying that your best mate is a shia and ur share a business with him, and in the other thread you wrote this about shias:

      Sadzz It is the in the VERY basics of Islam to stand against or at least raise a voice when you see something done wrong in the circle of your religion.
      why don't you stand against this shia friend of urs?

    3. #3
      SalmanNY

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      Originally posted by NeSCio:

      here you're saying that your best mate is a shia and ur share a business with him, and in the other thread you wrote this about shias:



      why don't you stand against this shia friend of urs?
      Dude what the heck is wrong with you stop putting tabs on me and move on. I am strictly talking about Ahemdi's and anything that has to do with the respect of Prophet Mohammad :saw:, go read that thead top to bottom again.
      Please refrain your self from spreading false information or 'picked' lines that maligns other guppies image. In case if you forgot to read I have said in the subject A request to Shia Guppies....

      Thank you.

    4. #4
      Senior Member
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      ^as far as I know, that thread was on both shias and ahmadis. And even in ur post you did not explicitly distinguish between the two, so how do you expect me to know ur only addressing ahmadis here. But then again why only take ahmadis and consider shias as ok

    5. #5
      SalmanNY

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      Originally posted by NeSCio:
      ^as far as I know, that thread was on both shias and ahmadis. And even in ur post you did not explicitly distinguish between the two, so how do you expect me to know ur only addressing ahmadis here. But then again why only take ahmadis and consider shias as ok

      Originally posted by SalmanNY:


      Well Said brother Guppie.

      Sadzz It is the in the VERY basics of Islam to stand against or at least raise a voice when you see something done wrong in the circle of your religion.

      Lets say you knew a guy who wrote a new quran or amended the Quran to its own belief, what would you do ? Let him do whatever he wants to do ? Or may be try to your BEST ability to stop him from doing such ?

      Just like that Prophet Mohammad :saw: was a walking/talking Quran. After his death if someone appointed another prophet, dont you think that is absoloutley wrong ? Dont you think its a direct disrespect to Quran and neverthless our most beloved Prophet Mohammad :saw: ?

      When we cant take disrespect for our parents/family from NOBODY, then why it is always ok for us to sit back and eat popcorns when ever something comes up about the respect of prophet p.b.u.h. ?

      Islam teaches you everything, but one thing it DOES NOT teach you is compromise with your religion or ESPECIALLY prophet Mohammad :saw:.
      I was strictly reffering to the ahemdi belief of another prophet after Prophet Mohammad :saw:. If, what I wrote is too hardcore of an english for you to understand, then it is your problem not mine. Please STICK TO THE TOPIC if you are not Shia then i would like you tou be out of my thread and not waste my time. Thank you.

    6. #6
      Ali Da Malung!
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      Salman,

      I will paste the similar questions that have been answered by the shia scholers:

      Questions:

      It is my understanding that the act of beating one's self in mourning for Imam Husayn a.s. with blades or otherwise, is allowed in Islam.

      QUESTION(a)

      But when this type of behavior leads non-muslims to believe
      that the Shi'ah are barbarious and that their religion is based more on
      emotion than reason, and it confirms their misconception about us that we are fanatics and zealots, can it still be considered allowed?


      ANSWER:

      A(a) The ritual of self-flagellation as part of the Muharram
      observances has generated heated discussion amongst the scholars and
      laity. For instance, around mid 1920's Sayyid Abu-l-Hasan Isfahani
      in Najaf and Sayyid Muhammad Qazwini in Basra issued legal opinions
      against this practise. A similar position was taken by Muhsin al-Amin.
      They were rebutted by Abd-ul-Husayn al-Hilli and members of the Kashif
      al-Ghita family. Two issues were of concern for the jurists - one is
      that this ritual at times led to the loss of human life and second,
      public perception of Shi'ism. Ayatullah Sayyid Ali Khamena'i made
      this ritual of qame zadan (hitting the head with a knife) haram by
      virtue of the harm it does to public image of Shi'ism. Also, Shaykh
      Shamsuddin and most probably even Ayat. Fadlullah have issued legal
      opinions similar to Ayat. Khamena'i. However, most of the prominent
      jurists have a different opinion. For instance, Ayat. Gulpaygani and
      Ayat. Araki allow the ritual of self-flagellation so long as there is
      no fear of loss of life or causing injury to any organ of the body.
      However, Ayat. Gulpaygani states that it is better to avoid this
      practise based on precaution (ihtiyat). They all emphasize that the
      commemmorative mourning ceremonies, that take different forms, must
      be kept alive to preserve the vitality of the symbol of Imam
      Husayn (a.s.). In all probability the legal opinions of Ayat. Khui and Seestani
      on this would be the same as Ayats. Araki and Gulpaygani.




      QUESTION(b)

      Doesn't this type of behavior misguide people from the school of
      Ahlul-Bayt? If it does, are we responsible for that?

      ANSWER:

      A(b) If it can be demonstrated to the jurists that it misguides
      people, then perhaps they would prohibit it.



      QUESTION(c)

      What are the guidelines of Azaa that the Imams (as) have given
      us? Have they instructed us to beat ourselves or have they condoned this?

      ANSWER:

      A(c) The Imams (a.s.) have given very general guidelines to us and
      that is to mourn for them and show sorrow and grief. These different
      rituals are human expression of public display of the grief. However,
      Imam Husayn (a.s.) gave a clear instruction to his sister not to
      scratch her face or tear apart her clothes.

      Question:

      My question is that, what is the actual wording of the ruling of Grand
      Ayatullah Syed Ali Hussani Seestani (may he live long), on the issue of
      "Zanjeer Ma'tam"?

      Answer:

      Ayatullah Seestani permits zanjeer matam provided there is no fear of loss of life or causing irreversible injury to any limb.

    7. #7
      Ali Da Malung!
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      you can come out with two very important points from these questions..i will let you make the conclusion

    8. #8
      SalmanNY

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      Two points that i come up with is

      1-Imam Hussain (ra) strictly told us not do harm ourselves.
      2-Ayatullah Seestani permits zanjeer matam provided there is no fear of loss of life or causing irreversible injury to any limb

      but then this confuses me altogether

      (b) If it can be demonstrated to the jurists that it misguides
      people, then perhaps they would prohibit it.
      Aside from what they have to say, I would want to know a common shia's point of view about this. My best friend he is totally against it himself and his own family. I just want to know what other shia's of moderan age think about this
      -Sal

      THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH FOR YOUR REPLY. MAY ALLAH GIVE YOU AJJAR FOR THIS.

    9. #9
      Ali Da Malung!
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      majority of the shia are following Ayuttullah Seestani so they MUST follow him regarding such matters...it is allowed provided there is no fear of loss of life or causing irreversible injury to any limb.
      2nd point is that if its giving a wrong image of the shias and azadari infront of the non muslims then avoid it..no need to do it in public

    10. #10
      SalmanNY

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      Originally posted by Sheraz CT:
      majority of the shia are following Ayuttullah Seestani so they MUST follow him regarding such matters...it is allowed provided there is no fear of loss of life or causing irreversible injury to any limb.
      2nd point is that if its giving a wrong image of the shias and azadari infront of the non muslims then avoid it..no need to do it in public

      Thanx... and your view ?...

    11. #11
      Ali Da Malung!
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      Originally posted by SalmanNY:



      Thanx... and your view ?...
      i agree with the the above post i write completely..main bhi Ayuttullah Seestani ki taqleed main hoon...i don't do zanjeer zani myself but i don't have a problem with a person who is doing zanjeer zani as long as they consider those two points..i cant convince you because only an azadar of Imam Hussain (a.s.) can understand it completely

    12. #12
      SalmanNY

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      Originally posted by Sheraz CT:


      i agree with the the above post i write completely..main bhi Ayuttullah Seestani ki taqleed main hoon...i don't do zanjeer zani myself but i don't have a problem with a person who is doing zanjeer zani as long as they consider those two points..i cant convince you because only an azadar of Imam Hussain (a.s.) can understand it completely
      Contrary to your post above I understand the pain you guys have for Imam hussain (ra) TRUST me on that.

      But IMO Zangeer Zani should be done privately no need to show it the whole world. Fine if you are in a muslim country do it as much even opennly on the streets where no video coverage is available especially from foriegn media.

      I have seen people taking bath in blood here in New York and to me that is a BIG no no. We are just making this worst of us and other muslims. Thats my opinion.
      -Salman

    13. #13
      Kher Andesh
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      Faisal's Avatar
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      Salman... if I understand you correctly, you are not concerned about the pain and the injury to the participants, but are more concerned ... almost embarassed as a muslim ... as to what foreigners will think about when they see images of zanjeer-zani etc.

    14. #14
      SalmanNY

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      Originally posted by Faisal:
      Salman... if I understand you correctly, you are not concerned about the pain and the injury to the participants, but are more concerned ... almost embarassed as a muslim ... as to what foreigners will think about when they see images of zanjeer-zani etc.

      Faisal bhai, I have done mataam to a very extreme extent my self when I was young. I am VERY concerned about the pain and the suffering that they brought onto theirselves.

      What I am concerned about that an CEO or an Employer who witnesses these things and when a very qualified applicant comes for the respective job, he/she is denied because in the back of that CEO/Employer he has those images and SOMEHOW he/she is disqualified. A grieve loss to that very qualified Muslim applicant. Does he/she deserves that ? No.

      That is just ONE example. How about a group of people attacking a Muslim girl or a mosque out of hatred, what we are to do? Do we want that ?

      Do we want this level hatteredness towards us? Does a Hijabi girl deserves those peeved eyes on her? Does she deserve that scrutiny that she faces in her every daily life?

      I don't think so. If blood/bath mattam can be avoided publicly, It SHOULD be. Shia's are most welcome to do it privaltey or in a closed environment where there is no media present.
      Please enlighten me with your opinion on this faisal bhai.
      -Salman

    15. #15
      Kher Andesh
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      ^ I am not sure I understand your above examples in the context of this thread. Aer you saying a CEO sees muslims doing matam, and when a muslim applies for a job, the job is denied? If thats the case, the CEO is probably a retard and thus its much better for the applicant not to work for that CEO/company. If on the otherhand, you are saying that a muslim is caught doing matam on television, and then the same muslim applies for a job, the CEO recognizes him and denies him the job. Same as above.

      Muslim women attacked due to hatred? Or head scarves? Why would someone attack a muslim woman after seeing matam on television?

    16. #16
      Matsui

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      Originally posted by SalmanNY:



      Faisal bhai, I have done mataam to a very extreme extent my self when I was young. I am VERY concerned about the pain and the suffering that they brought onto theirselves.

      What I am concerned about that an CEO or an Employer who witnesses these things and when a very qualified applicant comes for the respective job, he/she is denied because in the back of that CEO/Employer he has those images and SOMEHOW he/she is disqualified. A grieve loss to that very qualified Muslim applicant. Does he/she deserves that ? No.

      That is just ONE example. How about a group of people attacking a Muslim girl or a mosque out of hatred, what we are to do? Do we want that ?

      Do we want this level hatteredness towards us? Does a Hijabi girl deserves those peeved eyes on her? Does she deserve that scrutiny that she faces in her every daily life?

      I don't think so. If blood/bath mattam can be avoided publicly, It SHOULD be. Shia's are most welcome to do it privaltey or in a closed environment where there is no media present.
      Please enlighten me with your opinion on this faisal bhai.
      -Salman
      CEO's will disqualify a muslim not because he say someone whipping HIMSELF with chains but rather watching someone blowup kids in a pizza parlor.

      Mosques are attacked by idiots. It is also another set of idiots who use mosques as hiding places and launching pads for terrorist activities.

    17. #17
      SalmanNY

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      Originally posted by Faisal:
      ^ I am not sure I understand your above examples in the context of this thread. Aer you saying a CEO sees muslims doing matam, and when a muslim applies for a job, the job is denied? If thats the case, the CEO is probably a retard and thus its much better for the applicant not to work for that CEO/company. If on the otherhand, you are saying that a muslim is caught doing matam on television, and then the same muslim applies for a job, the CEO recognizes him and denies him the job. Same as above.

      Muslim women attacked due to hatred? Or head scarves? Why would someone attack a muslim woman after seeing matam on television?
      Faisal bhai may be I am not clearing my self. But what I am trying to say is the image that is portrayed by doing matam is of extremist. Muslims are not extremist by nature. When a CEO or anybody (I just gave an example) or any higher non-Muslim authority sees such kind of practice, what kind of image as Muslims are we leaving on them? Does it truly portrays the teachings of Islam and Prophet Mohammad :saw: ?

      Attacking a Hijabi girl was just another example, I don't want people to think of my fellow Muslims both sunni/shia that we are extremist. We don't cut ourselves for fun (that's what they think) We cut ourselves for a more deeper reason that only a true muslim can understand.

      I hope I make my point understandable.

    18. #18
      Kher Andesh
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      Well, if you want to distance mainstream muslims from 'extremist' elements, then I'd have to agree with Matsui.... Images of muslims doing 'Matam' are really something internal, and are quite irrelevant in the minds of non-muslims, compared to images of 9/11 hijackers, Osama, Saddam, other terrorists, bombs blowing off, Madrid train wreckage etc.

      These are the images that foster hatred against Islam. The examples you gave i.e. muslims not getting hired, hijabi women getting attacked etc... are more due to violence against non-muslims rather than matam done to themselves. IMO, ofcourse. Feel free to disagree

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