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    1. #1
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      What is the story behind it ? What I am been told that Anhazoor (Saw) bought this Baagh(Garden) for his (saw) family so that they dont have to worry about working/money etc, after his death. But after his (saw) death, Hazarat Omer (r.a) took this baagh back from Hazarat Fatima (r.a). She was called in Hazarat Omer (r.a) darbar and was asked to give 'Proof', that the baagh belonged to Bibi Fatima(r.a). She (r.a) didn't have the proof and said that isn't it enough that its coming from the daughter of Mohammad (saw) ? Yet the Garden was taken away from her.

      Please shed some light on this. I need input from both Ahl-e-Tasheeh and Sunni People. Thank you.
      -Salman

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      Ok I never mind. I read it all in the previous link. As a Sunni I would say, aside everything. If the DAUGHTER of My Prophet saw said ONCE that Anhazoor (saw) gave it to her, there would be NO discussion after that. She was PART of Anhazoor saw, if she claimed that it belonged to her, WHETHER SHE WAS NAOOZBILLAH WRONG or correct, it should have been given to her. PERIOD ! And thats my stance and my stance only. Common man, we are talking about Anhazoor saw daughter here. I think it was one of the saddest things I have read in my life. Really sad. W'Allah-ulilm.
      -Salman

    3. #3
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      Quote Originally Posted by SalmanNY View Post
      What is the story behind it ? What I am been told that Anhazoor (Saw) bought this Baagh(Garden) for his (saw) family so that they dont have to worry about working/money etc, after his death. But after his (saw) death, Hazarat Omer (r.a) took this baagh back from Hazarat Fatima (r.a). She was called in Hazarat Omer (r.a) darbar and was asked to give 'Proof', that the baagh belonged to Bibi Fatima(r.a). She (r.a) didn't have the proof and said that isn't it enough that its coming from the daughter of Mohammad (saw) ? Yet the Garden was taken away from her.

      Please shed some light on this. I need input from both Ahl-e-Tasheeh and Sunni People. Thank you.
      -Salman

      Bibi Fatima died 6 months after the death of Prophet, and that was the Caliph ship of Abu Bakar. She could not be called to Hazrat Omar Darbar. It was 3 years after her death he became caliph

      This sound like a propaganda to me

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      I believe I mixed H. Omar r.a with H Abu-Bakar r.a. And yes that's exactly my sentiments i.e. shouldn't have been called out to go to ANYONES darbar for ANY reason. She SHOULDNT have to answer to ANYONE for ANYTHING. She was Rasool's saw Baitee, not any ordinary woman. I am deeply sadened by reading the details of it.
      -Salman

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      Quote Originally Posted by SalmanNY View Post
      What is the story behind it ? What I am been told that Anhazoor (Saw) bought this Baagh(Garden) for his (saw) family so that they dont have to worry about working/money etc, after his death. But after his (saw) death, Hazarat Omer (r.a) took this baagh back from Hazarat Fatima (r.a). She was called in Hazarat Omer (r.a) darbar and was asked to give 'Proof', that the baagh belonged to Bibi Fatima(r.a). She (r.a) didn't have the proof and said that isn't it enough that its coming from the daughter of Mohammad (saw) ? Yet the Garden was taken away from her.

      Please shed some light on this. I need input from both Ahl-e-Tasheeh and Sunni People. Thank you.
      -Salman
      Whoever told you this story might need to get his head checked, he has mixed lot of fabrication in an important islamic historical record

      There was an issue between hazrat Abu bakar(ra) and Hazrat fatima (ra), the detail of which can be found in history books.

      Both shia and sunni scholars have different take on this issue\\\
      Bazinggaaaa ....

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      "darbar" of umar[ra] ???

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      Sahih Bukhari---------

      http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...i/053.sbt.html

      Volume 4, Book 53, Number 325:

      Narrated 'Aisha:

      (mother of the believers) After the death of Allah 's Apostle Fatima the daughter of Allah's Apostle asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her, her share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqa (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Apostle.

      She used to ask Abu Bakr for her share from the property of Allah's Apostle which he left at Khaibar, and Fadak, and his property at Medina (devoted for charity). Abu Bakr refused to give her that property and said, "I will not leave anything Allah's Apostle used to do, because I am afraid that if I left something from the Prophet's tradition, then I would go astray." (Later on) Umar gave the Prophet's property (of Sadaqa) at Medina to 'Ali and 'Abbas, but he withheld the properties of Khaibar and Fadak in his custody and said, "These two properties are the Sadaqa which Allah's Apostle used to use for his expenditures and urgent needs. Now their management is to be entrusted to the ruler." (Az-Zuhrl said, "They have been managed in this way till today.")
      ************************************************** **************
      ************************************************** **************

      Sahih Muslim--------

      http://www.iiu.edu.my/deed/hadith/muslim/019_smt.html

      Book 19, Number 4352:

      It is narrated on the authority of Urwa b. Zubair who narrated from A'isha that she informed him that Fatima, daughter of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), sent someone to Abu Bakr to demand from him her share of the legacy left by the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) from what Allah had bestowed upon him at Medina and Fadak and what was left from one-filth of the income (annually received) from Khaibar. Abu Bakr said: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: "We (prophets) do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." The household of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) will live on the income from these properties, but, by Allah, I will not change the charity of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) from the condition in which it was in his own time. I will do the same with it as the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upun him) himself used to do. So Abu Bakr refused to hand over anything from it to Fatima who got angry with Abu Bakr for this reason. She forsook him and did not talk to him until the end of her life. She lived for six months after the death of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). When she died, her husband. 'Ali b. Abu Talib, buried her at night. He did not inform Abu Bakr about her death and offered the funeral prayer over her himself. During the lifetime of Fatima, 'All received (special) regard from the people. After she had died, he felt estrangement in the faces of the people towards him. So he sought to make peace with Abu Bakr and offer his allegiance to him. He had not yet owed allegiance to him as Caliph during these months. He sent a person to Abu Bakr requesting him to visit him unaccompanied by anyone (disapproving the presence of Umar). 'Umar said to Abu Bakr: BY Allah, you will not visit them alone. Abu Bakr said: What will they do to me? By Allah, I will visit them. And he did pay them a visit alone. 'All recited Tashahhud (as it is done in the beginning of a religious sermon); then said: We recognise your moral excellence and what Allah has bestowed upon you. We do not envy the favour (i.e. the Catiphate) which Allah nas conferred upon you; but you have done it (assumed the position of Caliph) alone (without consulting us), and we thought we had a right (to be consulted) on account of our kinship with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). He continued to talk to Abu Bakr (in this vein) until the latter's eyes welled up with tears. Then Abd Bakr spoke and said: By Allah, in Whose Hand is my life, the kinship of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) is dearer to me than the kinship of my own people. As regards the dispute that has arisen between you and me about these properties, I have not deviated from the right course and I have not given up doing about them what the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used to do. So 'Ali said to Abu Bakr: This aftetnoon is (fixed) for (swearing) allegiance (to you). So when Abu Bakr had finished his Zuhr prayer, he ascended the pulpit and recited Tashahhud, and described the status of 'Ali, his delay in swearing allegiance and the excuse which lie had offered to him (for this delay). (After this) he asked for God's forgiveness. Then 'Ali b. Abu Talib recited the Tashahhud. extolled the merits of Abu Bakr and (said that) his action was nott prompted by any jealousy of Abu Bakr on his part or his refusal to accept the high position which Allah had conferred upon him, (adding) But we were of the opinion that we should have a share in the government, but the matter had been decided without taking us into confidence, and this displeased us. (Hence the delay in offering allegiance. The Muslims were pleased with this (explanation) and they said: You have done the right thing. The Muslims were (again) favourably inclined to 'Ali since he adopted the proper course of action.

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      However, The claim by Khilifa about Hadeeth 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we leave is Sadaqah' is false.

      Following Hadeeth from Sahih Bukhari. The three Khaleefa�s inheriting the ring of the Prophet is proof that the Hadeeth 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we leave is Sadaqah' is false....


      Sahih Bukhari_______

      http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...i/072.sbt.html

      Volume 7, Book 72, Number 767:

      Narrated Anas:

      that when Abu Bakr became the Caliph, he wrote a letter to him (and stamped it with the Prophet's ring) and the engraving of the ring was in three lines: Muhammad in one line, 'Apostle' in another line, and 'Allah' in a third line. Anas added: 'the ring of the Prophet was in his hand, and after him, in Abu Bakr's hand, and then in 'Umar's hand after Abu Bakr. When Uthman was the Caliph, once he was sitting at the well of Aris. He removed the ring from his hand and while he was trifling with it, dropped into the well. We kept on going to the well with Uthman for three days looking for the ring, and finally the well was drained, but the ring was not found.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Das Reich View Post
      "darbar" of umar[ra] ???
      Ok let me correct this bibi Fatima r.a the daughter of Anhazoor saw was brought to (not 'darbar') but the 'place' where all the men including Abu-Bakar r.a, Usman r.a and other men made decision's. Is that better ?

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      Quote Originally Posted by Code_Red View Post
      Whoever told you this story might need to get his head checked, he has mixed lot of fabrication in an important islamic historical record

      There was an issue between hazrat Abu bakar(ra) and Hazrat fatima (ra), the detail of which can be found in history books.

      Both shia and sunni scholars have different take on this issue\\\
      Code bhai, I just overheard the sotry. No need to get all worked up here please. I searched the details and I know my overheard story was way off. Thank you for correcting me
      -Salman

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      ^^ I hope now you feel better
      I grow in learning as I grow in age.

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      Quote Originally Posted by MAKRANI View Post
      However, The claim by Khilifa about Hadeeth 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we leave is Sadaqah' is false.

      Following Hadeeth from Sahih Bukhari. The three Khaleefa�s inheriting the ring of the Prophet is proof that the Hadeeth 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we leave is Sadaqah' is false....


      Sahih Bukhari_______

      http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...i/072.sbt.html

      Volume 7, Book 72, Number 767:

      Narrated Anas:

      that when Abu Bakr became the Caliph, he wrote a letter to him (and stamped it with the Prophet's ring) and the engraving of the ring was in three lines: Muhammad in one line, 'Apostle' in another line, and 'Allah' in a third line. Anas added: 'the ring of the Prophet was in his hand, and after him, in Abu Bakr's hand, and then in 'Umar's hand after Abu Bakr. When Uthman was the Caliph, once he was sitting at the well of Aris. He removed the ring from his hand and while he was trifling with it, dropped into the well. We kept on going to the well with Uthman for three days looking for the ring, and finally the well was drained, but the ring was not found.

      Assalamu Alaykum,

      I believe this narration provides the same opinion as that quoted earlier of Prophet's garden. That is, the ring was not inherited by the Prophet (pbuh)'s progeny. Keep in mind that 'inheritance' is in family and not in friends or companions.

      In both cases, Prophet (pbuh)'s property went to the Islamic state. The ring was used as a symbol of the head of Islamic state as a representative of Muhammad (pbuh) - the last Prophet of God - and not as a commodity for personal benefit or use. If it indeed was used in personal capacity, then official correspondence would not be signed using it.

      I hope this clarifies that this provides further evidence that this particular case was not for one case only, rather in every instance of Prophet (pbuh)'s property.

      Best Wishes

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      Aoa

      As pointed out by one of the fellow, It was Hazrat Abu bakar not Hazrat Umer.
      I am surprised to look at this but to have clear understanding we need to look at this from more than one angle.

      1) this is surprising that Bibi Fatima has not been given saying prophets do not have heir and same was not applied to other bibis I mean umhaat ul momineen.

      2) We see that bibi fatima and hazrat abu bakar never spoke and so on to each other for ever coz of this issue. Islam says muslim can not be angry with an other muslim for more than three days until solid reason or one realises his/her mistakes. Simply one was certianly wrong.

      3) this bagh if given to Bibi fatima would have been used socially and religiously to support different causes with freedom for bibi fatima and her family and thus Hazrat Ali would have strong hold in society.

      4) quran and sunaa clearly shows that other Anbiyaa had heir/waris then why not in case of bibi fatima

      5) Hazrat Abu bakar has weeped for few things in his last moments and one was bibi fatima anger.


      Once upon a time there was a fight b/w two and they brought a 3rd to solve issue among them and he listining to the stories of both said both of them were right and he was kicked out by both.

      or in other words urdu speaking and pushto speaking were fighting on
      dryaa behtaa hay and dryaa behtee hay ..........they found a third nad asked him to give verdict on this issue and he said dryaa naa behtaa hay ....... naa dryaa behtee hay .........bulkay dryaa to bahay hay............
      so please be specific and clear

      WalahuAlim
      tc, Ah

    14. #14
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      Dear All

      Assalam-o-Alaikum

      Let me share my humble knowledge in a summarised form;

      Bagh-e-Fidak was a garden which was bestowed upon Holy Prophet (SAW) as his share after Ghazwa-e-Khaiber. During his (SAW) lifetime, it was considered by all as the property of the Prophet (SAW).

      After Holy Prophet (SAW) passed away, Hazrat Abu-Bakar (RA) became the Caliph and included Bagh-e-Fidak in Caliphate property to use its income in Bait-ul-Mal. At that time Hazrat Fatima (SA) asked Hazrat Abu-Bakar (RA) to hand her down Bagh-e-Fidak in inheritance, since she considered it to be the property of Holy Prophet (SAW). This strangely, with all due respects and honours for the Sahaba (RA), was not agreed upon by Hazrat Abu-Bakar (RA).

      First, he (RA) asked Hazrat Fatima (SA) to produce any witnesses in favour of her claim. At that time, Hazrat Ali (KAW), Hazrat Imam Hassan (AS) and Hazrat Imam Hussain (AS) appeared before Hazrat Abu-Bakar (RA) as her (SA) witnesses. Hazrat Abu-Bakar (RA), did not consider their view point appropriate on the premise that the testimonies of Husband and Sons are invalid for a Wife and Mother.

      Second, he stated that Prophets had no hiers and their property belonged to their people.

      The claim of Banu-Hashim on Caliphate plus the incident of Bagh-e-Fidak were later described by certain historians as the reasons of discontent of Hazrat Fatima (SA) towards Hazrat Abu-Bakar (RA).

      On the contrary, Hazrat Umar (RA) has been wrongly and maliciously implicated by some in this account. His role later was that of a facilitator and not that of animosity towrads Banu-Hashim. When he (RA) became the Caliph, this issue of Bagh-e-Fidak was once again put forward by Hazrat Ali (KAW) and Hazrat Abbas (RA). Unfortunatley once again the issue could not be settled.

      During the Caliphate of Hazrat Usman (RA), he assumed it to be the prerogative of the Caliph to grant it to any Wali within the Caliphate. So he gave it to Marwan bin Hakam.

      On the contrary when Hazrat Ali (KAW) became Caliph, he did not misuse his position and left it in the custody of Marwan and his family.

      Later it was Hazrat Umar bin Abdul Aziz (RA), who handed Bagh-e-Fidak back to Banu-Hashim.

      Ref; Fatah-al-Bari, Azala-e-Khafa, Fulk-ul-Nijah

      Wassalam.
      Last edited by Dr Sufi; Oct 23rd, 2007 at 08:42 AM. Reason: References
      Sag-e-Madina-o-Najaf

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      Once i ahave discussed it in Muharram thread..again copying it..from here...


      http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthrea...+starts&page=9 (Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive))



      Yes , you are right .. but for your kind information... it happens when someone made fatima(ra) angry for false reason... abu bakr(ra) angry him for a false reason !!!!!!!!!! for your kind information, he presented before her the shaeeh hadees of prophet(pbuh) considered as shaheeh both by sunnis and shiascholars as i give below........



      It is quite ridiculous that when Muftis and Mughtahids like you , having no knowledge of Quran , Ilm-e-Kalam ,asool-e- hadees , Asool-e- fiqah and start "Deducing Pseudo Results" from the particular hadees that fits into your mould ... LOL




      Now tell me if a prophet(pbuh) saying is more important or Fatima(ra) saying.... and if you say that both ahadees contradicts ... No sir ... its your thinking and looking at a way of a matter that contradicting !!!!!!!!




      If someone make fatima(ra) angry without any reason , that person comes into the line of hadees , not that person who presented her the shaheeh hadees of prophet(pbuh) himself.......!!!!!!



      There is written in many history books that incident that one time ali(ra) and faima(ra) fighted , ali(went from home to masgid-e-nabwi and slept ther, prophet(pbuh) came to house , fatima(ra) told the story , prophet(pbuh) came to masjis-e-nabwi ,he awoke him by dusting the mud from his hairs and said wake O abu Turrab ..... and from this day he kept this name.... Now tell me, this fighting between and ali(ra) and fatima(ra) , did ali(ra) not angry the fatima(ra) and left the house...... This means that we should also consider the lion of God ,in the same line of hadees.....LOL




      Infact , it is written in all authentic history that once ali(ra) and fatima(ra)fighted , ali(ra) went away , prophet(pbuh) came and asked , fatima(ra) replied that there was a disputewith ali(ra) but latter , i appoligized from ali(ra) ... prophet(pbuh) said... you did right... fatima(ra) if you had not apoligized and died meanwhile , your father (pbuh) would not have to come to your funeral prayer........So ,


      what will you say about that.....
      Last edited by divine-light; Oct 23rd, 2007 at 06:46 AM.

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      A beautiful explanation of the whole issue which later became an "Afsana"...!!!!

      http://www.ansar.org/english/FADAK.htm


      one more thing...Abu bakr(ra) was a very wealthy trader of clothes..what he wanted to have this land...he already spent his whole money before migration ..on freeing slaves....

      Is fadak ..made him land lord..while previously he was...poor !!!!!


      secondly..most important thing...we have no heirs..hadees consider as shaeeh by both shias and sunnis....

      in front of any hadees...quote or becoming angry..has "NO CONSIDERATION at all....

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      Quote Originally Posted by jishah View Post
      Aoa

      As pointed out by one of the fellow, It was Hazrat Abu bakar not Hazrat Umer.
      I am surprised to look at this but to have clear understanding we need to look at this from more than one angle.

      1) this is surprising that Bibi Fatima has not been given saying prophets do not have heir and same was not applied to other bibis I mean umhaat ul momineen.

      2) We see that bibi fatima and hazrat abu bakar never spoke and so on to each other for ever coz of this issue. Islam says muslim can not be angry with an other muslim for more than three days until solid reason or one realises his/her mistakes. Simply one was certianly wrong.

      3) this bagh if given to Bibi fatima would have been used socially and religiously to support different causes with freedom for bibi fatima and her family and thus Hazrat Ali would have strong hold in society.

      4) quran and sunaa clearly shows that other Anbiyaa had heir/waris then why not in case of bibi fatima

      5) Hazrat Abu bakar has weeped for few things in his last moments and one was bibi fatima anger.


      Once upon a time there was a fight b/w two and they brought a 3rd to solve issue among them and he listining to the stories of both said both of them were right and he was kicked out by both.

      or in other words urdu speaking and pushto speaking were fighting on
      dryaa behtaa hay and dryaa behtee hay ..........they found a third nad asked him to give verdict on this issue and he said dryaa naa behtaa hay ....... naa dryaa behtee hay .........bulkay dryaa to bahay hay............
      so please be specific and clear

      WalahuAlim
      tc, Ah
      Wa aleikum us salaam,

      Most of these are narrations and history and have no bearing on my faith. My beliefs derives from Quran, and Prophet (pbuh)'s practices come to me through sunnah - that is about it. Whether these versions of history are true, corrupted, false, and/or fabricated by hypocrites - I don't know, and I wouldn't want to spend too much time to find these because, I'll say again, they do not affect my beliefs at all!

      For information or understanding history it is important, but principles are derived from Quran and sunnah. As a result, I stated one principle that clears out how this garden was dealt with and under what premise.

      Do not mean to say this is not an important issue, but I simply state what a Muslim's faith is based on - Quran and sunnah.

      Best Wishes,
      Omer

    18. #18
      The Grim Reaper
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      Quote Originally Posted by SalmanNY View Post
      I believe I mixed H. Omar r.a with H Abu-Bakar r.a. And yes that's exactly my sentiments i.e. shouldn't have been called out to go to ANYONES darbar for ANY reason. She SHOULDNT have to answer to ANYONE for ANYTHING. She was Rasool's saw Baitee, not any ordinary woman. I am deeply sadened by reading the details of it.
      -Salman
      Really you think so? This way she becomes above the law.

      Please give reference that the relatives of prophets have the same privileges as the prophets.
      To repeat what others have said, requires education, to challenge it, requires brains.
      - Mary Pettibone Poole

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