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    Results 1 to 14 of 14
    1. #1
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      Iconoclast's Avatar
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      I think all religions undergo some changes over time. Changes occur not only in rituals but also in philosophy, principles and practices.

      We know how christianity evolved from Jesus to Trinity and then diversified later.

      What changes have occured in Islam over the time. One such thing that comes in my mind is Attributes of Allah which seem to have changed from ealier muslims to Mutazilites and to Asharis.

      NOTE: Please bear in mind that i do NOT intend to prove any religious dogma or sect right or wrong.
      Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment.

    2. #2
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      IMHO christianity didnt evolve, it was b@stardized.

      Islam has remained static but muslims have evolved. They no longer deem it necessary to try and understand the Quran. It is now perfectly fine to read the quran a million times in their lifetime without ever knowing what they're reading.
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    3. #3
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      Quote Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post
      What changes have occured in Islam over the time. One such thing that comes in my mind is Attributes of Allah which seem to have changed from ealier muslims to Mutazilites and to Asharis.

      NOTE: Please bear in mind that i do NOT intend to prove any religious dogma or sect right or wrong.
      Do you know anything about the Ashari Aqidah? Calling yourself "Salafi" doesn't make you one.
      Ex nihilo nihil fit

    4. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by Cheegum View Post

      They no longer deem it necessary to try and understand the Quran. It is now perfectly fine to read the quran a million times in their lifetime without ever knowing what they're reading.
      did they ever try to understand the Quran?
      Two sources of guidance that the Prophet left behind, Quran and the Ahlay Bayt, were sidelined and oppressed right at the death of the Prophet. The trend continues till today.
      Last edited by Pagluu; Mar 1st, 2009 at 04:36 AM.
      "And those who oppress shall see what kind of outcome overturns them." [26:227] Al-Quran

    5. #5
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      As for the change, radicalism and zealousness is the biggest change in last 300 years in muslim Ummah throughout the world, a negative change.
      Ex nihilo nihil fit

    6. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by hareem01 View Post
      Do you know anything about the Ashari Aqidah? Calling yourself "Salafi" doesn't make you one.
      Again its not about my beleifs but just a historical perspective. Ashari aqeeda seems more appealing to me than salafi aqeeda but to my knowledge i have not come across any text of early Islam that conform to Ashari aqeedah in terms of attributes of Allah.
      Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment.

    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by hareem01 View Post
      As for the change, radicalism and zealousness is the biggest change in last 300 years in muslim Ummah throughout the world, a negative change.
      i am talking bout changes that have been overwhelming accepted by people and not the controversial issues.
      Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment.

    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pagluu View Post
      did they ever try to understand the Quran?
      Two sources of guidance that the Prophet left behind, Quran and the Ahlay Bayt, were sidelined (and crushed!) and right at the death of the Prophet. The trend continues till today.
      Plz do not bring a sectarian angle to it. Shiaism itself has undergone many changes over the time.
      Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment.

    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by hareem01 View Post
      Do you know anything about the Ashari Aqidah? Calling yourself "Salafi" doesn't make you one.
      Calling yourself Muslim, doesn't make you one! Iconlast, to easily give you answer. We overwhelmingly easily accepted to establish jewish and christians laws in the entire World. Even in the Islamic Countries!


    10. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post
      Again its not about my beleifs but just a historical perspective. Ashari aqeeda seems more appealing to me than salafi aqeeda but to my knowledge i have not come across any text of early Islam that conform to Ashari aqeedah in terms of attributes of Allah.
      You said you haven't come across any text ...
      To be honest for a long time I believed in Salafi/wahabi aqeedah before trying to study the traditional islam. All I can say is if you want to know more about this, study the traditional Islamic scholars. I'll end my discussion here, i don't want to bash salafi/wahabi aqeedah to offend them as I had a long discussion few days ago on this forum.

      Here's an interesting article, do read it.
      Literalism and the Attributes of Allah

      Quote Originally Posted by Numb View Post
      Calling yourself Muslim, doesn't make you one!
      Good that you have realized this.
      Ex nihilo nihil fit

    11. #11
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      ^

      I had realized that long before you.

    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by hareem01 View Post
      You said you haven't come across any text ...
      To be honest for a long time I believed in Salafi/wahabi aqeedah before trying to study the traditional islam. All I can say is if you want to know more about this, study the traditional Islamic scholars. I'll end my discussion here, i don't want to bash salafi/wahabi aqeedah to offend them as I had a long discussion few days ago on this forum.

      Here's an interesting article, do read it.
      Literalism and the Attributes of Allah


      Good that you have realized this.
      Its a good article, but, as i said before i am not rooitng for or against any doctrine, all i am saying is that there does ntoo appear to be any text that shows early muslims beleived in allegorical explanation of Allahs attributes. If you have come across one do share.

      Also another change is that of slavery,w hich was thought to be permissible earlier but not any more.
      Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment.

    13. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post
      Plz do not bring a sectarian angle to it. Shiaism itself has undergone many changes over the time.
      It most certainly has. We are not like Salafis/Wahabis who are scared of changing times and want time to be at stand-still. Such idealogies have temporary life (so does OIL money btw which is the backbone of this drama).

      Islam and its laws are flexible or deep enough to meet the chaning needs of time until the day of judgement. As time passes by, human made laws and systems will keep dying out.
      Last edited by Pagluu; Mar 1st, 2009 at 05:53 AM.
      "And those who oppress shall see what kind of outcome overturns them." [26:227] Al-Quran

    14. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post
      I think all religions undergo some changes over time. Changes occur not only in rituals but also in philosophy, principles and practices.

      We know how christianity evolved from Jesus to Trinity and then diversified later.

      What changes have occured in Islam over the time. One such thing that comes in my mind is Attributes of Allah which seem to have changed from ealier muslims to Mutazilites and to Asharis.

      NOTE: Please bear in mind that i do NOT intend to prove any religious dogma or sect right or wrong.
      Other than believing in Allah, No other God than Allah and Prophet Muhammad (SAAW) his last messenger, The other Islamic foundations/fundamentals are based on virtues/tradition benefiting the society both in short & long run.

      Other than this any evolution might be in conflict with the very basics of Islam, like Now a days Ahmadi/Qadyani etc and in early days Ismailies, Qaramties do/did promote this kind of thinking and they actually love to discuss this kind of evolution and need of new messenger to re-define the system (for whatever reason) under the umbrella of Islam.

      Last but not least, Islam have been victum of Mullahism and is not being practiced in its original form, what ever we are getting from these mullahs ( by mullah I only meant the people who not only advocate their version of Islam but consider everyone else kafir and would not mind killing them for the same reason) their mental illness and nothing more, if it is ever considered an evolution.
      Last edited by hanibal; Mar 1st, 2009 at 05:54 AM.
      Since Govt of Pakistan have finally knelt on my demand to Ban Mubashir Luqman, i hereby change my signature. :)