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    1. #19
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      ravage's Avatar
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      ^ yeah and madrassa educated boy is very forebearing isnt it.

      it is sadly the norm for the rare unity related threads to be hijacked by wingnuts of either side. that will be the case here, and in the broader Muslim world, regardless of well meaning efforts by individuals.
      Din-e-Mullah fee sabeelillah fasad (Allama Iqbal)

    2. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by Nussairee View Post
      ^just for the sake of unity i m not gonna reply to ths madarssa educatd boy
      Its unrealistic to have an approach to unite Protestants and orthodox christians on matter of believes

      Similarly

      Shia sunni are two religious ideologies based on different foundations and will never unite.

      But offcourse what we can strive for is " PEACEFUL COEXISTANCE"

    3. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by ravage View Post
      ^ yeah and madrassa educated boy is very forebearing isnt it.

      it is sadly the norm for the rare unity related threads to be hijacked by wingnuts of either side. that will be the case here, and in the broader Muslim world, regardless of well meaning efforts by individuals.


      Have u ever heard of Protestants and Orthodox christians uniting on faith matters?

      Its our faith that distinguish us as different from others.

      We cannot unite different sects and religions and its unrealistic so ravage G grow up and have more realistic approach

      As , I said, its ok to be different......its ok to have different opinions and religions nothing wrong with it.....as long as you exist peacefully with each other

    4. #22
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      ^ u cud have a peaceful, respectful co-existence. learn from the people u call goray "kuffar". u cud disagree with some1 w/o having to kill em.
      Last edited by Nussairee; May 1st, 2009 at 02:02 PM.
      If your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.

    5. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by bitter_reality View Post
      Have u ever heard of Protestants and Orthodox christians uniting on faith matters?

      Its our faith that distinguish us as different from others.

      We cannot unite different sects and religions and its unrealistic so ravage G grow up and have more realistic approach

      As , I said, its ok to be different......its ok to have different opinions and religions nothing wrong with it.....as long as you exist peacefully with each other
      I dont believe that is very different from the original post. Furthermore, 'unity' can include the bolded part. The unity that protestants and orthodox christians have achieved, for example, in America, is good enough for me.
      Din-e-Mullah fee sabeelillah fasad (Allama Iqbal)

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      Quote Originally Posted by amir_pindi View Post
      To Nice-boy

      I am laughing at your shia=typical reply to my post.

      A typical reply, of false and incorrect arguments of which you presented have been given and proven time and time again which u do not accept so there is no point in debating or argueing with u. The refutables of thes are at somwhere like www.ahlel-bayt.com/org with proofs from shia and sunni books.
      The Nasibi website you have referred to are managed by some kids who usually copy paste stuff from old anti-Shia websites and much if ots filth has been refuted at:
      Answering-Ansar.org :: Home



      From OUR trusted and respected SOURCES, and we sunnis believe that there was no enemousity between h.ali and the 3 caliph'as.
      From your own trusted respected sources
      - Ali bin Abi Talib [as] deemed Abu Bakar as ‘a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest’. [Sahih Myslim]
      - Faimta Zahra [as] died angry of your first hero [Sahih Bukhari]
      - Ali bin Abi Talib [as] did not like Umar to visit his house [Sahih Bukhari]
      etc

      This is proven from the fact that
      H.ALI GAVE BAIT OF ALLEGIANCE TO H.ABU BAKR. To us this shows he was in agreement and obdidience with him.
      So from where does the bitternes come from? We do not belive a man of bravery and calibour of h.ali would give a bait to someone not worthy of it. We believe he did not give bait under any condition of compulsion.
      The references you are relying on also says that Ali bin Abi Talib [as] asked Abu Bakar that Umar should not visit his hosue as he did not like Umar's presence, do you also accept that? The tradition also says that Ali bin Abi Talib [as] did not give bayah to Abu Bakar for whole Six months, do you have any good reason for that? Ali bin Abi Talib [as] did not allow Abu Bakar etc to attend the funeral prayers of the daughter of Holy Prophet [s], any good reason? This all is suffice to cut down your story which paint that "all is well".


      If H.Abur Bakr was unworthy of the bait, if he was an evil person (nz) like u shias belive, H.ALI Would never ever show support and support his false image for him by giving him the bait, even if it meant sacrificing himself , his blood his family, for the truth.

      THE SAME WAY HIS SON H.HUSAAAIN DID NOT GIVE BAIT TO YAZEED IN KARBALA!
      Since you people are narrow-minded and devoid of wisdom thus you only see things in a smaller picture. Ali bin Abi Talib [as] was Imam of the time, what he did was not for his support for Abu Bakar - the one who snatched the right of Ahlulbayt [as] but for the benefit of mankind. Yusuf [as] was representative of Allah on earth in his era, yet he not only guided but personally worked under a Kaafir king just because of the betterment of the human beings at large.


      Secondly: The other smaller argumenst you pose, are all refutable.
      If you went to a website such as ahlel-bayt.com/org you would= get a concise and referanced reply to each of your confused issues.

      I have already informed you abotu a website i.e. Answering-Ansar.org :: Home that has unveiled the rubbish copy-paste act done by your beloved Nasibi website.


      cutting long story short.

      Yes taqqiyah is in the koran, but only in particular instances it is allowed in deen, RATHER than a way of religion and major part of faith, which you peoples have made it.
      The only particular instance wherein Taqiyah is allowed in Islam is when one is forced to say or act something contrary to Islam, thats how it is.


      and sorry but it is common knwoledge now how much yoru scholars malign and insult h.aisha.

      We know you people hate h.aisha to your guts.
      The one who had audacity to hate or even fight Ali bin Abi Talib [as] is himself/herself hated by Allah [swt] and his Prophet [s], why to single out the Shias in it?

      There are online u-tube vuideos of your adverseries and even SCHOLARS ridiculing H.AISHA,so who u trying to fool?
      Quote me one which shows that Shias attribue the crime of adultery on Ayesha? This is what you had initially assreted.


      EVEN U HAVE THAT SPecifc DAY OF MOHORAM, called TABARAA, which is a night speficifciaaly dedicated just for you to gather as one and abuse and insult the 3 caliphas h.aiosha, h.hafsa!
      That is the result of years of work coming out of Nasibi Madrassas teaching stupid and rubbish things to their followers abut Shias, but the stupid are those who blindly accept these baseless things without even asking their Mullah to substantiate their claims.



      If anybody wanst to know the true reality of these shias and thier beliefs please make use of the vast sources of the internet. Go to a reputable islamic website, that illustrated what they really believe with proof, such as ahlul-bayt.com.org, or get a shia/sunni perpestives on islam book.
      The diferances between sunnies are very significant and cannot be ignored
      .

      Of course there are differences, who said there isnt any??? yes there are differences that cannot be ignored.

      in reality SHIAS Everything is different from sunnies, so there is no common ground for unity.
      That shows your narrow-mindedness, typical mentality influnced by Nasibi madrasas. Unity does not require having identical beliefs from both sides, if they were identical in the first palce, why to talk about unity then? The calls for the requirement of unity itself shows that it is being referred to about two sects having 'different' beliefs.


      SHIAS KALMA IS DIFFERENT FROM SUUNIS EVEN. When somebodies kalma is not even one which is the basic foundation of belef then which premise does unity come from?!
      The main and the compulsory part of the Kalima is same i.e.
      "La Ilaha Illalah Muhammad un Rasool Allah". If you are to object on the later part of the Shia Kalima which is recited as Mustahib act, then I have full right to object on your six Kalimas as well.

      Also shias differ from sunnies in other fundementals of:

      -namaz
      -azaan
      -wuzu method (sunnies do wuzu from hands, head then feet; shias do feet first then come up)- and we know incorrect wuzu invalidates prayer...
      and many others.
      And for each of these, Shias can prove their stance from authentic Sunni soruces. But since you have been giving priority to anti-Shia literature all this long, therefore you never bothered to see what is written in your own books. And yes, if incorrect Wuzu invalidates prayer then show me the word "wash" in Quran while you "wash" the feet during Wuzu, so whose Wuzu is incorrect?


      THE BIGGEST THING ABOUT SHIAS IS THAT THEY HATE OUR 3 CALIPHS.
      The biggest thing about the three caliphs is that they hurt Ahlulbayt [as].

      YOU ABUSE OUR 3 CALIPHAS AND H.AISHA MORE THAN ANY CREATION EVER MADE BY ALLAH, THEN HOW CAN WE UNITE WITH PEOPLE LIKE THIS?

      u people make our bloods boils abusing the people who we fear even taking the name of without respect.
      You lick the feet of the all time enemies of Ahlulbayt [as], deem people like Muawiyah and Yazeed respected, those who were involved in cursing and killing Ahulbayt [as], how Shias would feel, have you ever paid heed to that? The notrorious enemies and killers of imam Hussian [as] such as Shimer, Umar Ibn Saad, Muhammad bin al-Ashath, Rabi, Ibn Ziyad etc have been deemed as authentic narrators of Sunni Hadith books, have you ever bothered to know the Shia sentiments on that? If besides all this junk in your backyard, we are willing to show unity, for the interest of Ummah, then whats the fuss is all about?




      U R LUCKY bro u havent recived fatwa. Yes fatwa ur foot. Becos if u did u wud have been in serious trouble.
      FATWA MY FOOOT. Mullahs of your past like Qazi Shureh did not spare Imam Hussain [as] from stupid fatwas, then what to expect from your new generation? And anyone triyng to issue fata against us, first has to prvoe his own Imaan, otherwise it will be like any Hindu/Christian passing fatwa on Shias.



      Nvertheless We SUNNIES love and respect both THE Prophet (pbuh) SAHABIES Aswell as his FAMILY of H.ALI.
      Yeah wow, what a briiliant way to respect Ali bin Abi Talib [as] and other members of Ahlulbayt [as] while at the same time also loving those who cursed, abused and faught them. So please cut the crap. Its lke somone saying "I love both, Ibrahim and Nimrod". Either take this side or that one, no need to sail in two boats at a time.



      But we we do not want nor are encouraged to have unity in such disrespectful and untrushworthy people.

      In a recent fatwa given by the Imam of Makka, he also dissallowed Unity between shias and sunnies on the above basis i have given.
      The Wahabis/ Salafies have themsevles been declared Kaafirs by other Sunni schools such as Brelvies. So you better first solve your own problems.




      And i dont know why shias r alway beggin for unity?
      No Shia is begging for unity, its some elements from both schools who think that for the betterment of Ummah as a whole, both schools shall come together by not rasing controversial issues.



      and im not going to remain here and argue with u better so better u shut up or go to some other place.
      Yeah it require guts, moreover some moral groud to debate, so you better lay off.

    7. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by ravage View Post
      I dont believe that is very different from the original post. Furthermore, 'unity' can include the bolded part. The unity that protestants and orthodox christians have achieved, for example, in America, is good enough for me.
      Do some research...before this tit for tat factless replies.

      Orthodox dont even have christmas and easter on the same day as Lutherans.
      Both has different idelogies and follow their own sects.

      You cannot make mixed pickles out of religious groups in name of Unity

      Its impossible to mix two religious ideologies just because you dream it!

      Your Personal believe is not what we are discussing here..U can feel free to have any belief or opinon. Its just a discussion!

    8. #26
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      The Lutherans goto their Lutheran churches

      The easter orthodox go to their own orthodox churches

      The Yehowa witiness have their own churches......

      Now try to unite them and then post your next argument!

    9. #27
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      double posting prob
      Last edited by amir_pindi; May 1st, 2009 at 03:46 PM.

    10. #28
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      Id agree unity is IMPOSSIBLE Nor do we want unity with haters of the Prophets (pbuh) beloved sahabies.

      But PEACEFUL CO-EXISTANCE is possible.

      And to the person who posted in answer of my post.

      -My dear friend i have enough knowledge of beliefs of shias and sunis before going to or resorting to websites.

      Once again all of your points are the typical shia ones of why the calaphs didnt do thsi why they didnt do that etc, which are already been refuted i havnt got the need nor time to educate u on these issues, thats why i referred u to ahlel-bayt.com.

      Indeed there are many wbsites out there, but personally having reviwed many, i belive this one is the best for shais misconceptions because it answers each of your typical argumnets with consise manner, proofs and ref.s from Koran, and both sunni and shias sources.
      This is a good website for any sunni brothers out there to learn about shias misconceptions/resent against sahabies.

      So tell u in advance before trying to waste any sunnis time in debating in topics you will never agree, you might aswell go to that website which has all are replies for u in advance.

      And yeh i do disagree with most of what you said, becaue it should be disagreed to.

      The batlle between h.ali and h.aisha was result of misunderstanding and confusion.
      H.aisha initially came out of her home to make peace not to fight.
      In addition, both h.ali and h.aisha met and reconciled thier differances after the battle and the dispute was settled leaving no enemity.
      And just because Allah has said to someone to stay at home, does it mean that for thier whole live they are never meant to step foot outisde home.

      I apologize for hurting your feelins with the grammar, actually you know I was writing really fast and hurrdidly because i dont give much importance to this thread.

      And What a foolish logic is you dislike h.aisha just because she fighted with h.ali.
      If that is so, then from the same premise i could also come out being from love of 'mother of the belivers' , Aisha, who also being praised in sura.noor as chaste and righteous, by Allah, that as i dislike h.ali because he was her enemy?
      But What foollishness this is though isnt it?

      The fact is that both people were great and pious people, who muslims should both love and respect.

      And I know the reality your 'dislike' for Aisha is much wider and deeper than this one issue, however that will take things in another direction, so i dont want to go there.

      In conclusion, We have solid proof and logic for oursleves in our standpoint that there was nothing but love between the sahabies and ahleh-al-bayt, and we are going to stick to that.

      And you have your oppsoing view-points which you will never budge. So lets why not leave it at that?

      As far as we are concerned your beliefs and views are very offensive to us, hence we do not want to be unified with you.

      And as the brothers posted above, even small differances of opnions can mean large diferances in tenents of faith, which is clear in the case of shias-sunnies.

      When the most important and fundemental belief of faith is different how can there be unity:

      -Your kalima is different. This is unacceptable to us


      - Your azaan, wuzu, and prayer method is so diferent that according to our fiqh it doesnt even furfill the minimum condtions needed to be valid.
      This is unacceptable to us.

      -Your namaz is different. Infact you curse each of the 5 sahabies after in namaz in your salams.
      This is unacceptable to us.

      >Your Fasting is even diferent. You have variations in opening and closing fast times from sunnies, to such an extent that would exceed the time limits rules making fasting invalid.

      -You belive that Your Imam are infallible.......we sunnies do not accept this, we belive no one was infallible apart from the prophet (pbuh)


      And many other small differances in fundemnetal things like these make us a long distant apart.

      Also you people beat yourself like crazy in muharam ahsura. Which the whole world looks at in amazement and awe at. All other muslims get the bad impression just because of your sole horrifieing act.
      (And no thanks. dont try to prove it by koran quoting random wailing verses)


      Hadith Bukhari: Nabi Pak said:

      ''Do Not Revile MY Companions, For A Mudd (kilo) Of Gold Or Silver Given in Charity By Them Is Equal to the size of Mount Uhud''

      and:

      Would you want to be friend with person who swears at your Imam h.ali and his Bibi Fatima??

      WOULD U TOLERATE ANYONE ABUSING H.ALI? OFCOURSE NOT.

      so NEITHER DO WE LIKE TOLERATE THOSE WHO ABUSE H.A.BAKR, H.UMER, H,AISHA!

      SO lets FORGET UNITY.

      And dont try to teach us iman, we have our knowledgeble scholars for that.

      AND IM SORRY but your addtion of the kalima implies that the kalima nabi pak sent down was incomplete or imperfect, which implies an objection to nabi-pak!
      How wrong!
      You dont go round, adding or subtracting bits and pieces to established, stamped laws of faith!
      Wel,, the above for us atleast is despicable, if you like it up to u, but dont expect us to comrpimsie with it.

      AND TO NICE-BOY

      Your new post, further indicative of a charged up shia, full of fake refs and quotes.
      Boy i am too old for this taqqiyah crapiness. Go Home. I am well qauatined with hadiths nd the way u manipulate them. This aint gonna work in gup.shup!

      I am not going to reply to decietful and logicless posts. And i said here before im not here to entertain shias.

      Hope u get it..but i dont care keep doing it if it makes u happy.

      IN TOTAL U PROVE how DIFFERENT and UNWORTHY u r of UNITY . So FORGET IT.

      MAybe though youd be beter of conciling with the AHmadies as they also feel neglected.
      Last edited by amir_pindi; May 1st, 2009 at 03:51 PM.

    11. #29
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      Look, everyone values thier own beliefs, be it shia or sunni, they both think they are on the right, so theres no point in trying to play childish games of im right your wrong, because for every hadith you bring out, they will bring ten more of thier own to counter. You just need to learn respect that we all have different beliefs and they are here to stay.

      Being united doesnt mean converting, it means tolerating each others belief for the sake of the bigger picture. obviously some people lack that key ability and hence resort to bickering and instigating arguments every point...why? i mean what do you even get out of it? reverts?
      O He whose Name is a Remedy, whose remembrance is a Cure, and whose obedience is Wealth!

      Have mercy upon him whose capital is hope and whose weapon is tears!

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      Quote Originally Posted by amir_pindi View Post

      IN TOTAL U PROVE how DIFFERENT and UNWORTHY u r of UNITY . So FORGET IT.

      MAybe though youd be beter of conciling with the AHmadies as they also feel neglected.
      I dont think they're dying to be with the likes of you either, chuck, so please keep your taliban mentality to yourself. Unity can only be held with those who have an open mind, so I think that counts the taliban out on all fronts, thankfully.
      O He whose Name is a Remedy, whose remembrance is a Cure, and whose obedience is Wealth!

      Have mercy upon him whose capital is hope and whose weapon is tears!

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      If a person who does not want to unite with the people who maligns his mother, does not want to unite with the people the prophet use to and taught us to love.

      If you call this being narrow-minded then yeh i am narrow-minded.

      Remmber though the prophet order in shahi bkhari

      ''Dont revile my companions''

      I wonder if the Prophet (pbuh) was alive today my sunni brother, what his impression of these 'revillers' of his companions be and his advice on our stances towards them.

      The reality isnt that these people want unity, the realoty is the slyness which is they want to infiltrate us on the grounds of unit so they can convert and cause doubts and dissension amongst our own beliefs.

      Between wahabies and us, there is not mcuh differance, more diferance is of school of thught, which is allowable.
      There are some disputes, but at the end the fundentnals of wahabies and our beliefs and knwledge is the same. We are brothers.
      The wahebies area bit strict and narrow-minded but thast the way they are.
      Th good thing about them and us that atleast we have the cmmon ground of knowledge= sahih bukhari.

      But not these Shias.
      And why do they beat themselves to bloddy blood baths. I dnt get it. Recently a shia clerk in u.k is has been tooken to court on child abuse basis in ashura.
      What justification will the guy give of making a kid buthering himself to insanity with knives?
      Beats me?

      Look throughout history shias have always hated and back-stabbed sunnies in every oppurtunity they could. Thats why you should not never trust them. These are just thier games.

      That why i am agsint Unity. And there our other hadiths as similar to above where nabi pak stated contempt with those who hate his friends.


      Stay away from us with your corrupt beliefs. Just Thank God we allow you to peacefully co-exist with us.


      I have wasted so much time here.

      I am going. Bye.
      Last edited by amir_pindi; May 1st, 2009 at 04:34 PM.

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      good bye.....and good riddance.
      O He whose Name is a Remedy, whose remembrance is a Cure, and whose obedience is Wealth!

      Have mercy upon him whose capital is hope and whose weapon is tears!

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      Amir Pindi has more or less said what i wanted to say.............

      So lets conclude

      Sunnies and shias are different sects but can co exist peacefully but unity is not possible due to extreme religious differences of ideology

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      [quote=amir_pindi;6486521]

      Id agree unity is IMPOSSIBLE Nor do we want unity with haters of the Prophets (pbuh) beloved sahabies. [quote]

      As if Shias asre dying to have unity with those who venerate and lick the feet of those shameless ones who cursed, hated and faught Ahlulbayt [as]? Again, the differences are there, the talks of unity are coming from the elements within both sides just for the sake of Ummah as a whole.

      But PEACEFUL CO-EXISTANCE is possible.
      Thats what all this discussion is about, what esle have you been thinking uptil now?


      -My dear friend i have enough knowledge of beliefs of shias and sunis before going to or resorting to websites.
      Yeah, I had taken note of your "enough knowledge" from your Muharram comment.

      Once again all of your points are the typical shia ones of why the calaphs didnt do thsi why they didnt do that etc, which are already been refuted i havnt got the need nor time to educate u on these issues, thats why i referred u to ahlel-bayt.com.
      As I stated, the Nasibi website you are referring to time and again has already been refuted by Answering-Ansar.org and all of its lies and cope-paste stuff has already been exposed, so no need to refer me to a obsolete web.


      The batlle between h.ali and h.aisha was result of misunderstanding and confusion.

      H.aisha initially came out of her home to make peace not to fight.
      In addition, both h.ali and h.aisha met and reconciled thier differances after the battle and the dispute was settled leaving no enemity.
      And just because Allah has said to someone to stay at home, does it mean that for thier whole live they are never meant to step foot outisde home.
      Oh yeah as if you are talking to a Sunni kid desperate to blindly learn few 'responses' that needs to be given to a Shia right? Dear, had you ever bothered to check into your books you would have come to know that nothing was misnderstanding, Prophet [s] had already predicted everything:
      - That the horns of Satan will come out from the house of Ayesha
      - The Ayesha will get herself into controvery with ali bin Abi Talib [as] while the former being on the wrong path and later on the right.
      - The rebellion of Ayesha will be accompanied by infidels.
      - The sign of Ayesha being on wrong path will be that the dogs of Hawab will bark at her.

      All of these are written in black and white in Sunni books, you dont try to fool others by your usual "sudden accident" theory.


      I apologize for hurting your feelins with the grammar, actually you know I was writing really fast and hurrdidly because i dont give much importance to this thread.
      I never asked you to apologize for grammar while English is not my firtst language either.


      And What a foolish logic is you dislike h.aisha just because she fighted with h.ali.
      Wow. So now you people are eager to call the Hadith of Prophet as 'foolish logic' just because you are adamant to defend the enemies of Ali bin Abi Talib [as]. Has you ever bthered to check the Sunni Hadiths, you would have come to know that one who abuse, curse, hurts or fight Ahlulbayt [as] - Ali bin Abi Talib in particular, he/she himself/herself is cursed, hated by Allah and His Prophet [s]. Prophet [s] did not narrate this in vain, it had some meanings.


      If that is so, then from the same premise i could also come out being from love of 'mother of the belivers' , Aisha, who also being praised in sura.noor as chaste and righteous, by Allah, that as i dislike h.ali because he was her enemy?
      Same Aeysha has also been condemned in Holy Quran and has been wraned that if she could have been replaced by a wife of Holy Prophet [s] who would be:
      - Better than her
      - Who submits
      - And who believes [Surah Tahrim]

      She was warned that if she did something contrary to the injunctions of Islam, her punishment will be double. I am surprised you did not mention these facts yet you relied on a verse which at no place 'particularly' praised Ayesha but was revealed in connection to a particular incident of Ikf to make it clear that the wife of the Prophet of Islam was not adulterer, as this propaganda was being used by Kufaar and was detrimental for Islam - by asserting that Prophet who teraches righteous things is himself accompanied by a characterless wife [nauzobillah] , thus Allah saved Prophet from the false accusations of raised by Sahaba on her dignity. The verse at no where gave guarantee that Ayesha will be a good wife and a good women. That is why, as I mentioned, Quran later admonished her.

      But What foollishness this is though isnt it?

      The fact is that both people were great and pious people, who muslims should both love and respect.
      Thats the double standards that your sect has been following. To us, only one could be on the right path, we DONOT and CANNOT use "RA" for both the opressor and the opressed, killer and the diseased, we cannot sail into two boats at a time, either there or here. For us, the instructions of Holy Prophet [s] to adhere to Ahlulbayt [as] and the predictions made by Him [s] as to who will be on the wrong path and who will be on the right path are sufficient .



      In conclusion, We have solid proof and logic for oursleves in our standpoint that there was nothing but love between the sahabies and ahleh-al-bayt, and we are going to stick to that.
      Tommorow you will claim that both Nimrod and Ibrahim, Musa and Firown etc were right in ther respective postiions. I have already pointed out the illogical stance that your school adhere to by sailing into two boats at a time.

      And you have your oppsoing view-points which you will never budge. So lets why not leave it at that?
      Sure, you had started it and I felt it was my duty to defend my faith from the propaganda, otherwise you will never find me opning a thread or in any other way initiating such debates.

      As far as we are concerned your beliefs and views are very offensive to us, hence we do not want to be unified with you.
      This shows you never bothered to read my post carefully. I had highlited the facts that the requirement of unity comes with the two faiths are 'diofferent' it never comes with both schools are identical.


      When the most important and fundemental belief of faith is different how can there be unity:

      -Your kalima is different. This is unacceptable to us
      Ok if you want to toa that line of argument, then be it:

      You people have six different Kalimas - i.e. different to us, hence unacceptable to us.



      - Your azaan, wuzu, and prayer method is so diferent that according to our fiqh it doesnt even furfill the minimum condtions needed to be valid.
      This is unacceptable to us.
      We can prove our method of Wuzu and prayers fro myour own books while you cannot do the same from our books this shows onus is on you to prove your own mnethods of Wuzu, prayers etc first and according to our Fiqh, it doesnt even fulfil thee minimum conditions needed to be valid.


      -Your namaz is different. Infact you curse each of the 5 sahabies after in namaz in your salams.
      This is unacceptable to us.
      Your Namaz is also different and cannot be proved from our books, hence unaccetable to us.
      As for your comment on cursing sahaba after every namaz, you made my point more clear that what you have been doing uptil now is reading Naasibi literature.

      >Your Fasting is even diferent. You have variations in opening and closing fast times from sunnies, to such an extent that would exceed the time limits rules making fasting invalid.
      You people are scared of remaining hungry for the sake of Allah and thus open fast quite later than our timings and also get so much tiried that you break the fast so early than the required time, that is unacceptable to us.


      -You belive that Your Imam are infallible.......we sunnies do not accept this, we belive no one was infallible apart from the prophet (pbuh)
      If you had time to swtich from Nasibi literature from orthodox Sunni one, you would have come to know that accorindg to Sunni text, there can and there are people infallible other than Prophets also.


      And many other small differances in fundemnetal things like these make us a long distant apart.
      Of course, thats why we are two different schools of thought, if everything was alike, we would we be two different sects?

      Also you people beat yourself like crazy in muharam ahsura. Which the whole world looks at in amazement and awe at. All other muslims get the bad impression just because of your sole horrifieing act.
      When Prophet had die, Ayesha was beating her face like crazy woman. And as for whole words looking at us with amazment, that shows the reallity of your Iman, you are there to make the word happy, thats what you care, you are not concerned with the intention and the fact behind commemoration of Ashura.

      (And no thanks. dont try to prove it by koran quoting random wailing verses)
      Yeah dont worry, they ware not for the biased ones.
      Hadith Bukhari: Nabi Pak said:



      ''Do Not Revile MY Companions, For A Mudd (kilo) Of Gold Or Silver Given in Charity By Them Is Equal to the size of Mount Uhud''
      There you go, this is the comment which comes from hardcore Nasibi elements which I like the most because this is the one which shows their double standards.

      Okay so dont revile the companions right? I will wait for your Fatwa of Kufr on all those who reviled Ali bin Abi Talib who happened to be your fourth caliph as well as a prominent Sahabi of course????

      Reviling is a level below than to kill or attempt to kill some Sahabi, I willwait for your Fatwa of Kufr on those who hated, cursed, and even "faught" your fourth caliph who also happened to a prominent Sahabi.

      I am dead sure, uptil Qyamah I m not going to see such a Fatwa from you people just because you have coinned the strange belief according to which 'each and every Sahabi is respected and to be followed' . Those who coinned this belief for you, they forgot that there was a major loopwhole in the belief as Sahaba themselves been hating,cursing and fighting against eachother.

      and:

      Would you want to be friend with person who swears at your Imam h.ali and his Bibi Fatima??

      WOULD U TOLERATE ANYONE ABUSING H.ALI? OFCOURSE NOT.

      so NEITHER DO WE LIKE TOLERATE THOSE WHO ABUSE H.A.BAKR, H.UMER, H,AISHA!


      Thank you for drawing a margin between:

      - Hz Ali and Fatima Zahra [as] and their Shias
      - Abu Bakar, Umar, Ayesha and ther Sunnies

      By giving the example, you have yuorself said a lot of things, indirectly.

      SO lets FORGET UNITY.
      Forget it, who cares, we have been living since centuries without any unity, doesnt really matter for future as well.

      AND IM SORRY but your addtion of the kalima implies that the kalima nabi pak sent down was incomplete or imperfect, which implies an objection to nabi-pak!
      How wrong!
      Oh yeah, you prove me that the Kalima which we recite "was sent down" by Nabi Paak? can you please do so? Are you even aware of the concept of Kalima?

      You dont go round, adding or subtracting bits and pieces to established, stamped laws of faith!
      Yeah, but if we introduce Taraweeh, Tasweeb, and change the form of prayers, that is acceptable right??


      Your new post, further indicative of a charged up shia, full of fake refs and quotes.
      I did not know the Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim were fake books.


      Boy i am too old for this taqqiyah crapiness. Go Home. I am well qauatined with hadiths nd the way u manipulate them. This aint gonna work in gup.shup!
      I have seen since years people like you who get excited on reading Naasibi literature, son never ever try to use those deceitful tactics with me and I will open up with plethora of references by ginving online links from your websites.


      MAybe though youd be beter of conciling with the AHmadies as they also feel neglected.
      Since Ahmedies are the off shoot of Sunni school of thought, and why not the element of blaspheme of Prophet [s] are in common in both, [remember the Prophet talking 'nonsense' accusastion?] so you are advised to 'remain' with your new off shsots.

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      Quote Originally Posted by bitter_reality View Post
      Amir Pindi has more or less said what i wanted to say.............

      So lets conclude

      Sunnies and shias are different sects but can co exist peacefully but unity is not possible due to extreme religious differences of ideology
      Yeah but people like Amir, you would find objections to the 'co existence' need on one pretext or the other, I am quite sure.

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      @Amir_pindi all you have done is offered your own conclusions without any argument. "This website says so hence it is proven" is not a valid form of arguing.

      For the rest of those who feel that there is a huge difference in religious ideology, don't know what religion is all about.

      There is a difference in religious ideology if you believe that religion is about what happened after Mohammad (SAW). In my opinion religion was completed in the life of Prophet (SAW) and God revealed the verse of perfection of deen.

      Unfortunately sunni brethren believe that Abu Bakr and Umar are more important and knowledgeable then the Prophet and sometimes it seem that Sahih Bukhari is more important then Quran.

      Infact I have read such blasphemy in Sahih BUkhari like below
      "Narrated Aisha: The wives of the Prophet used to go to Al-Manasi; a vast open place (near Baqla at Medina) to answer the call of nature at night. Umar used to say to the Prophet, "Let your wives be veiled," but Allah's Messenger did not do so. One night Sauda bint Zama went out at Isha time and she was a tall lady. Umar addressed her and said, "I have recognized you, O Sauda." He said so, as he desired eagerly that the verses of Al-Hijab (the observing of veils by the Muslims women) may be revealed. So Allah reveled the verses of al-Hijab". (A complete body cover excluding the eyes.)"

      Umar forced Allah's hand to reveal the verses of al-hijab and on top of that he was more knowledgeable then Rasool Allah (SAW) was so he instructed his (SAW) wives. If this is not blasphemy then what is?

      Whether it is sahih Bukhari or Usool e Kafi, we need to evaluate everything since any book besides Quran is subject to mistakes.

      Secondly, what is revealed in Quran can be canceled or superseded by Quran only and not by the doing of individuals even if they are caliphs, case in point khums, muta, two witnesses for divorce, etc. This is where our sunni brethren are mistaken, they feel a caliph can make changes to divine order and shias disagree.

      Please do not get blown away by propoganda. Ask questions or read from the websites of the opposing party so you are not misled.
      Last edited by righteous; May 2nd, 2009 at 01:17 AM.

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