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    Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
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    1. #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by Das Reich View Post
      show me reliable sources of history like abu mikhanaf , ibn kalbi, ibn sa'd ,waqidi or others like them.
      ,
      all the books u quoted u probably havent even SEEN yourself and ur copy and pasting from internet.

      Some other more informed 12ers like bros BOY-NICE and zero1 might be able to help u
      Yes, internet is my primary source, because history or religious studies is not my profession. But I follow the Mazhab of Ahle Bait, and you do not. And your lack of connection to them is the main reason your arguments would make no sense, even if you read books after books in libraries.
      Tum pehle barr-bolay nahin ho. Tum se pehle bhi kayi dekhe hein.

      Anyway. This khutbah is recorded by Abu Tahir Tayfur al-Baghdadi, a prolific ninth century historian, in one of his books "Balaghatun Nisa".
      Abu Tahir was the first person to write a history of Baghdad. There is a book on him by Shawkat Toorawa.
      Ibn Abī Ṭāhir Ṭayfūr and Arabic ... - Google Books
      "Ibn Abī Ṭāhir Ṭayfūr and Arabic writerly culture: a ninth-century bookman in Baghdad".

    2. #20
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      dhanya podena's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by burqaposhx View Post
      Obviously you didn't think it through.

      But it is not your fault TB.

      We the Paks are pretty careless when it comes to the origins of sectarian hate. Generally our parents do not teach us how to "accept" that sectarian hate is "real" and then we never learn how to "reduce" and control this 1300 years old rather infectious and deadly disease.

      And the carelessness exists both on the sides of Sunnis who fume at the disrespect of Sahaba, without ever realizing that Sahabas themselves disrespected each other and fought each others, and murdered each other.

      And the

      Shias, who think it is their religious duty to keep hateful fires burning.

      Whatever happened 1300 years ago may have several reasons, and perhaps REAL scholars should explore the issues.

      But for cryin out loud, we the ordinary Pakistanis must throw that 1300 years old filth out of our hearts, and minds, or at least cover it up.

      It is time that we take religious harmony in a serious way, so that our beautiful country becomes prosperous and tolerant place to live for all sects, religious, and ethnicities.
      One thing that Mullah teaches is to dehumanise those who disagree and keep the fire burning.

      Mullah tells the people that not only what happened 1300 years ago is important to us, but, goes much beyond, he tells them that it is still happening. He males his followers look for Yazid into every human being on earth even if Yazid died 1300 ago. Evryone who is not following the Mullah is to be considered Yazid and to be fought and hated.
      The one who isn't confused, does not, really understand the problem.

    3. #21
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      ^
      What do you say about other Muslims using the same logic about Firon vs Moses, and Prophet Muhammad vs Abu Leheb?

      For example, Iqbal:
      sateeza kar raha he azal se ta imroz
      chiragh e Mustafavi se sharar e Bu Lehebi

    4. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post

      Mullah tells the people that not only what happened 1300 years ago is important to us, but, goes much beyond, he tells them that it is still happening. He males his followers look for Yazid into every human being on earth even if Yazid died 1300 ago. Evryone who is not following the Mullah is to be considered Yazid and to be fought and hated.
      From tafsir by Ibn Kathir
      `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said: do not say (anything of which you have no knowledge).'' Al-`Awfi said: "Do not accuse anyone of that of which you have no knowledge"

      Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir - Do not speak without Knowledge
      Last edited by Pagluu; Nov 26th, 2009 at 03:10 PM.
      "And those who oppress shall see what kind of outcome overturns them." [26:227] Al-Quran

    5. #23
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      burqaposhx's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Prince Abbas View Post

      Isn't it what EVERYONE with ANY religious affiliation does?
      .......

      So why criticize shias alone?

      .....
      Filthy stories propagated by any group Shia/Sunni/Brelvi/Ahl Hadis/deos and deobandis/Ahmadi/Christian/Hindu that destabilize our beautiful country, AND create religious or ethnic hatred among different groups should not be aired.

      That's all.

      On another note, Shias and Sunnis in Pakistan were SUPPOSED to belong to the same religion, then why on earth you are referring to Shias alone?

      What rubbish Shias spread from Iran, or the hateful ideology that Sunnis import ideology from Saudi, should all stay in their source countries. Pakistan is not a dumping ground for the Irani/Saudi filth.

      For 170 million Pakistanis, this is our ONLY home. If Allah maaf kuray, something bad happens to our beautiful country, do you think Iran will open its doors to all the Shias from Pakistan? Or Saudis will grant open citizenships to all Sunnis?

      Heck no!

      Then why on earth we have to import religiously inspired filth and kuchla and koora kirkat from Iran and Saudi?

      Why?

      We in Pakistan do not need any more Irani/saudi/Baghadai $hite. Don't you realize that we are already losing our precious soldiers in order to get rid of the talbhianic $hite.

      It is time we quit reading and spreading hate among ourselves, and start thinking about ways that improve our country and make it a tolerant, and prosperous place.

      Amen.

    6. #24
      just another member.....
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      Muzna's Avatar
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      can you please mind your language?
      people may be more inclined to read what you post if you are decent.......

    7. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by burqaposhx View Post
      Filthy stories propagated by any group Shia/Sunni/Brelvi/Ahl Hadis/deos and deobandis/Ahmadi/Christian/Hindu that destabilize our beautiful country,
      You forgot to add Ismailis in this list.
      And what Filthy story are you talking about? Karbala?

      actually Karbala does not divide but unite Muslims. Imam Hussein does not belong to shias alone.

    8. #26
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      ^Mr. Prince, let us hear out your motive of bringing this story up. Is it to remind us of what happened? Or some other typical rafidha agenda?

      If it is former then we pay no heed to stories which are doubtful. How about bringing up events where your own people insulted the mother of the believer and first 3 kuhlafa? Were those 4 people not beloved to the Prophet? Why do you not defend their honour?

      if it is the latter then what can I say
      Fi Amanillah, Wa As-Salāmu 'Alaykum
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      Bringing Da'wah back..to life!

    9. #27
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      burqaposhx's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Prince Abbas View Post
      ......
      And what Filthy story are you talking about?....
      Any story that brings out sectarian or ethnic hatred all the way from 1300 years ago.

      Either you don't live in Pakistan,

      Or

      you are oblivious to the sectarian hatred among Pakistani-Shias and Pakistani-Sunnis.

      Why?

      Because one group is hell bent on IMPORTING sectarian hatred from Iran
      And
      the other group is heaven bent on IMPORTING equal amount (if not more) of rubbish from Saudi.

      Result?

      Bloodshed of innocent Shias and Sunnis in PAKISTAN.

      Got it?

    10. #28
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      Any story that brings out sectarian or ethnic hatred all the way from 1300 years ago.
      How come khutbah of Zainab bring out sectarian hatred? Wasn't she a revered personality for both shias and sunnis?

      1300 years ago? Do you know who Imam Hussein was? Do you understand who Ahle Bait are?

      Why do you talk about Islam and Prophet Muhammad, who are 1400 years old now?

      Why do Christians talk about 2000 year old Jesus?

    11. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by Prince Abbas View Post
      Yes, internet is my primary source, because history or religious studies is not my profession. But I follow the Mazhab of Ahle Bait, and you do not. And your lack of connection to them is the main reason your arguments would make no sense, even if you read books after books in libraries.
      Tum pehle barr-bolay nahin ho. Tum se pehle bhi kayi dekhe hein.

      Anyway. This khutbah is recorded by Abu Tahir Tayfur al-Baghdadi, a prolific ninth century historian, in one of his books "Balaghatun Nisa".
      Abu Tahir was the first person to write a history of Baghdad. There is a book on him by Shawkat Toorawa.
      Ibn Abī Ṭāhir Ṭayfūr and Arabic ... - Google Books
      "Ibn Abī Ṭāhir Ṭayfūr and Arabic writerly culture: a ninth-century bookman in Baghdad".
      bravo atleast u did some research , what "lack of information" are u pointing to ? esp since u google everything anyway ! again I asked for PRIMARY sources, thats all

      anyho the presence of family of hussain b ali is attested widely from many other sources as well like testimony of sahaba wathila b asqa and sahl b sa'd who were present in syria at that time.

      you follow madhab of ahle bait as christians claim to follow Jesus pbuh Ha
      Last edited by Das Reich; Nov 28th, 2009 at 10:38 AM.

    12. #30
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      What rubbish Shias spread from Iran, or the hateful ideology that Sunnis import ideology from Saudi, should all stay in their source countries. Pakistan is not a dumping ground for the Irani/Saudi filth.
      That is so true ...full marks for saying that

      overthrow saudis and ahmednijad and half of the problems of muslim world r solved.
      Khomenin was much better than this clown ahmedinijad , if muslims had realized it at the time , all tyrants of middle east wud have been gone.
      Last edited by Das Reich; Nov 28th, 2009 at 10:40 AM.

    13. #31
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      actually Karbala does not divide but unite Muslims. Imam Hussein does not belong to shias alone.
      wow how is that now !!!!

      u ONLY follow the madhab of ahle bait right ? or so u claim ...all others are followers of muawiyah and yazid right ? isnt that what u have said time and again
      now when unity is questioned u are quick to hide ....i know ur under handed tricks

    14. #32
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      ...
      Last edited by khoji; Nov 28th, 2009 at 01:10 PM.

    15. #33
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      Last edited by khoji; Nov 28th, 2009 at 01:18 PM.

    16. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by Das Reich View Post
      bravo atleast u did some research , what "lack of information" are u pointing to ? esp since u google everything anyway ! again I asked for PRIMARY sources, thats all
      You're welcome.

      you follow madhab of ahle bait as christians claim to follow Jesus pbuh Ha
      You don't even follow it even in that way.

    17. #35
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      Wafaat of Bibi Zainab (SA) (www.shohada-e-kerbala.com)

      She well conveyed the message of Karbala’s uprising and tragedy to the world and today it is a great honor for Muslims to follow this great lady as an example in their lives.

      The life of the daughter of Hazrat Al-Zahra (A.S.) was always laden with hardships, but she never feared coping with difficulties, this enhanced her endurance and elevated her soul.

      Ms. Carin from Germany, after embracing Islam, chose Zainab as her first name.

      Regarding her incentive in choosing this name, she says: “ I was always interested in the life story of the holy Prophet of Islam (MBABUHP) and his household. I was specially affected by the story of uprising of Imam Hussein (PBUH) in Karbala, and the personality of Hazrat Zainab in the events of Karbala.

      The spirit of Bibi Zaynab (A.S.) will live forever. Her courage and submission will continue to inspire those who hear her story for all times to come.

    18. #36
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      Maverick_27's Avatar
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      but jafer al kalaini havent narrated nething (if ne then i have missed it ) in asool e kafi from her including the khutba u have shared in op .

      y?
      If time is not real, then the dividing line between this world and eternity, between suffering and bliss, between good and evil, is also an illusion.

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