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    1. #1
      The Watcher

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      Surah 9 (at-tawbah) verse # 40.

      If you do not aid him [i.e, the prophet(pbuh)] - Allah has already aided him when those who disbelieved had driven him out [of makkah] as of one of two [the second one was his companion, Abu Bakr], when they were in the cave and he [i.e, Mohammad] said to his companion, "Do not grieve; indeed Allah is with us." And Allah sent down his tranguallity upon him and supported him with soldiers [i.e, angels] you did not see and mame the word [i.e, their claims and slogans] of those who disbelieve the lowest[i.e, degraded and dishonored], while the word of ALlah [ La ilaha-ill-allah] - that is the highest. And Allah is exalted in Might and wise.

      http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif
      Take it easy.

      ------------------
      *V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
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      -_-_-_-High Priest_-OF-_Painful Truth-_-_-_-

    2. #2
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      I am waiting for a Shiite reply.... http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

    3. #3
      The Watcher

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      I am back after 12 hours and still no shia to be seen. http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif Oh well. I guess, they are looking for some verse which slightly mentions or gives the hint about Ali, maybe in Bible. hahah!


      Take it easy.

      ------------------
      *V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
      ______________
      -_-_-_-High Priest_-OF-_Painful Truth-_-_-_-

    4. #4
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      ramesha's Avatar
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      Imtiaz-e-Haq o Batil kay liyeh
      Hubb-e-Ali (as) bhee kya maeyaar hay


      feel sorry for both of you!!!

      salaam
      ramesha http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
      "Verily, I am leaving behind two precious things among you: the Book of God and my kindred, my household..(Sahi Muslim, Hadith Thaqalayn is narrated by thirty plus Companions of the Prophet)

    5. #5
      The Watcher

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      http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif I understand the truth hurts Remesha, that was the intent. http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

      Read the QURANIC verse again. Poems and poematic slogans does not make you right.

      Everyone talks about "hug & Batil" but its very sad to see, what they consider "huq" and what they consider "batil," blind and deaf they are indeed. http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif To "some people" huq is batil and batil is huq...


      Take it easy now...http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif


      ------------------
      *V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
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      -_-_-_-High Priest_-OF-_Painful Truth-_-_-_-

    6. #6
      Senior Member
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      ramesha's Avatar
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      Watcher, U quoted an ayat from Quaran regarding hazrat Abu bakr (ra) and then said

      " I guess, they are looking for some verse which slightly mentions or gives the hint about Ali, maybe in Bible. hahah! "

      Now who am i to write anything abt fazzael-e-hazrat Ali hayder-e-karrar (as), Actually I dont know if anyone could write fazzaels of a person reffered as Nafs-e-rasool in Quran paak!!!!

      From previous expreinces here I know you will never learn anything neither will you get tired of all these arguments you come up with time to time.Frankly, I am not interested to be part of it all.

      This is the month of blessings and I pray may allah show you the way.

      salaam
      ramesha http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

      there is a persian sher
      Manqool ast kay khilayaq par saeda khuwahand
      shaaz dasti ali ibn-e-abi talib


      [This message has been edited by ramesha (edited December 19, 2000).]
      "Verily, I am leaving behind two precious things among you: the Book of God and my kindred, my household..(Sahi Muslim, Hadith Thaqalayn is narrated by thirty plus Companions of the Prophet)

    7. #7
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      Surdar Asif's Avatar
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      ramesha can you please email me at asif110@hotmail! thanx
      Sidq-e-Khalil bhi hay ishqe sabr-e-Husayn bhi hay ishq
      Mārika-e-wujud main Badr-o-Hunayn bhi hay ishq
      -Iqbal

    8. #8
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      Originally posted by The Watcher:
      Surah 9 (at-tawbah) verse # 40.

      If you do not aid him [i.e, the prophet(pbuh)] - Allah has already aided him when those who disbelieved had driven him out [of makkah] as of one of two [the second one was his companion, Abu Bakr], when they were in the cave and he [i.e, Mohammad] said to his companion, "Do not grieve; indeed Allah is with us." And Allah sent down his tranguallity upon him and supported him with soldiers [i.e, angels] you did not see and mame the word [i.e, their claims and slogans] of those who disbelieve the lowest[i.e, degraded and dishonored], while the word of ALlah [ La ilaha-ill-allah] - that is the highest. And Allah is exalted in Might and wise.

      http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif
      Take it easy.

      Keeping aside wether the second companion is referred to as Prophet, Abu Baker someone else, the thing that suprised me the most was that Abu Baker was with Holy Prophet, and on the right path, but i dont know why was he grieving so much for life, if he would have got killed he would have been a shaheed, which should have been a big blessing for him, to me personally it shows his lack of faith, Holy Prophet had to console him, on the other hand Hazrat Ali he slept on the bed of the Prophet, risking his own life for haq.


    9. #9
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      Pagluu's Avatar
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      This wasn't the only time he was scared of death insaniyat, i can assure you http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
      "And those who oppress shall see what kind of outcome overturns them." [26:227] Al-Quran

    10. #10
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      I am not a AAlim to get into debate, i am just an engineering student
      but i was reading the notes of this ayat from the Holy Quran that was published by
      Tehrik-e-tarsile Qur'an, Inc.
      if you want more references on the publisher let me know.
      anyway i though of sharing some part of it with you.

      "When he (the Holy Prophet's)said to his companion (Abu Baker)"fear not"- refer to fright against his being caught in the hands of the chasing enemy.
      ______________

      The epoch-making event of the Holy Prophet's migration from Mecca to Medina is of such importance that the Holy Quran has referred to it and to the stories connected with it in three places here, 2;194, 8;30. In short the Qoreish had decided to stab the Holy Prophet in his bed is such a manner that all the tribes of Qoreish be involved in it so that Hashimites would not dare to retaliate facing all the tribes together and would accept the rasom for it. The Holy Prophet was commanded by God to leave Mecca for Madina. Before the night fixed for the execution of the conspiracy and that Ali should sleep in his bed camouflaging the absence of the Holy Prophet, Ali welcomed to take the risk of his own life of lying in his bed and facing the enemies' attack. From the pessage 8;30 and this verse it is obvious that the conspiracy was only against the Holy Prophet and none else was concerned with it. There was the danger for Ali in particular of being killed by the enemy mistaking him in the bed for the Holy Prophet. However the Holy Prophet was forced by circumtances to leave the place for the Cave. Abu Bakr met him on the way and accompanied him to the Cave, but in the Cave he was full of fear and dreadfully worried, to the extent that the Holy Prophet had to console him. The Holy Prophet was considered to be the second of the two, not for any other consideration but because of being together in one place. The Holy Prophet is singly referred in respect of being helped by God, in respect of being helped by God, in respect of being driven out by the infidels; in respect of the Tranquillity being sent down to him from God and in respect of being supported by unseen armies of the angels. The only thing that may be considered that honoured Abu Bakr is being mentioned at one of the occupants of the cave and not with any other identity but what is worthy of being noted (with suprise) here is that he was not included as recipient of the Tranquillity from God while in other places where Holy Qur'an mentions of the Tranquillity from God, includes of believers along with the Holy Prophet. It is obvious that those of the believers are meant, who used to remain with the Holy Prophet even in the worst of the circumtances calm and undisturbed in the fighting for the cause of God and welcoming or longing to be martyred for it. Even there those who used to run away from battle field, deserting the Holy Prophet will not be included. Therefore excepting the honour which Abu Bakr had in being the only occupant of the cave with the Holy Prophet, he had not the honour of having the Tranquillity, while Ali on that eventful night sleeping in the Holy Prophet's bed had the same Tranquility which the Holy Prophet had in the Cave which was appreciated and houred by God by Vr. 2;194 and the Holy Prophet said that God expressed to the angels His admiration of Ali's matchless sacrifice and devotion. This is the only solitary passage where Abu Bakr is meant beyond any doublt (A.P.)


      [This message has been edited by Insaniyat (edited December 19, 2000).]

    11. #11
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      The Translation of Ayat40 or chapter IX is as follow
      Ye help not him (the prophet).(It matters not) for indeed God helped him when expelled him those who disbelieved, he was the second of the two, when they both were in the cave, when he said unto his companinion: (a) “Fear (a) thou not verily God is with us,” So God sent down (b) tranquillity upon him, (c) and strengthened him (c) with host (of angels) ye saw them not and made the word of those who believed not, the abased, * and the word of God , that is the most Exalted; and verily God is All-Mighty
      All- Wise .

      excuse me if i have any typing error

      but reading the translation of the Ayat first the word 'he' is said to be the second companion and later it says
      "when he said unto his companinion: (a) “Fear (a) thou not verily God is with us,” So God sent down (b) tranquillity upon him, (c) and strengthened him (c) "

      Looking at the translation its quite clear that 'He" here mentions to the Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H), who consoled Abu Bakr.



    12. #12
      The Watcher

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      hahaaha, just what I expected from shias, a doubt in quranic verses. And will to interpret the verse according to their needs, even though the verse clearly states what it means. WHO WAS WITH PROPHET IN THE CAVE? ABU BAKR.

      Abu Bakr or Umar, or Uthman, or Ali, they were companions and cliphas and leaders of early Muslims.

      You interpreting quranic verses by your means to justify the "superiority of ali" would never change the fact that he was a Clipha and companion of Prophet just like Abu Bakr and Umar and Uthman. Coming up with huq and batil poems does not make things right.

      I feel sorry for all of you, I gave you verse from quran and you people still doubt it.

      And Remesha, I think it was you who gave us a verse from some bible that "12 princes" refered to Ali or your 12 Imaams? Any significance of your 12 Imaams or Ali in Quran?
      Who cares what Bible says, all which matters is Quran and only Quran. If you don't like some things which quran says(such as the verss I quoted above) you don't have to like it, just come out clean and admit. http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

      You guys, take it easy.


      ------------------
      *V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
      ______________
      -_-_-_-High Priest_-OF-_Painful Truth-_-_-_-

    13. #13
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      Originally posted by The Watcher:
      hahaaha, just what I expected from shias, a doubt in quranic verses. And will to interpret the verse according to their needs, even though the verse clearly states what it means. WHO WAS WITH PROPHET IN THE CAVE? ABU BAKR.

      Abu Bakr or Umar, or Uthman, or Ali, they were companions and cliphas and leaders of early Muslims.

      You interpreting quranic verses by your means to justify the "superiority of ali" would never change the fact that he was a Clipha and companion of Prophet just like Abu Bakr and Umar and Uthman. Coming up with huq and batil poems does not make things right.

      I feel sorry for all of you, I gave you verse from quran and you people still doubt it.

      And Remesha, I think it was you who gave us a verse from some bible that "12 princes" refered to Ali or your 12 Imaams? Any significance of your 12 Imaams or Ali in Quran?
      Who cares what Bible says, all which matters is Quran and only Quran. If you don't like some things which quran says(such as the verss I quoted above) you don't have to like it, just come out clean and admit. http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

      You guys, take it easy.


      What doubt are you talking about, I didnt doubt the Quran, i just gave the ayat of the Quran and translation to it, and what exactly is the Ayat referring too, and since you don't have anything to say about it now you are saying that I am doubting Quran, didnt i mentioned everything clear brother, can you show me how am i wrong and you are right or you are not making stuff up, Where did i doubt it buddy, wow thats a nice excuse, I know brother truth does hurt, but a good bit of advice will be to learn how to stand it, don't just come up with lame excuses, as you people often do, You never even answered my question why was Abu Bakr crying in the first place, What was he scared for his life if he was on his right path doesnt your commons sense here shows his lack of faith here brother, only if you people learn to stand the truth and not just come up with lame excuses to avoid the truth there is a lot to learn. Why do you have so much buqzz for Hazrat Ali yaar, What wrong did he do to you.

      All in the ayat the thing to Abu Bakr he was in the cave with the Holy Propther grieving(probably why the hell did i come here in the first place).



    14. #14
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      We do not have any thing against Hazrat Ali (RA) may ALLAH (SWT) grant him the highest place in Paradise. It is the Shia concept that reject and accept the companions of Prophet (PBUH) based on a minority opinion. And brother did you read the mind of Hazrat Abu-Bakar (RA) may ALLAH (SWT) grant him the highest place in his Paradise, while he was in the cave, if not then control your whims.

      [This message has been edited by Musalman (edited December 19, 2000).]

    15. #15
      The Watcher

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      Remember that Abu-Bakr and Umar (may Allah be pleased with them) were the closest companions to Muhammad (pbuh) as all references indicates and Allah confirmed in the Qur'an. His good treat to them is very well known to Shia. They were both fathers-in-law of the Prophet and his right hand. So, if the Shia claim were correct then we have three possible situations:

      - Either they were hypocrites and the Prophet (pbuh) did not know that. This is a great insult to Allah since he did not warn his Messenger from his closest companions.

      -Or they were hypocrites and the Prophet (pbuh) knew that. This is even worst since they are insulting the Prophet (pbuh) by claiming that he did not warn his nation from those hypocrites and he made them his relatives.

      - Or they were good Muslims and they went astray after his death. This is abandonment from Allah to his messenger since He did not tell him what would happen in the future to warn the Muslim Ummah. How come Allah who promised to support his religion and his messenger, make to closest companions to his prophet renegades and hypocrites?!

      By insulting the wives and the companions of the Prophet (pbuh), clearly the Shia want people to say: "Muhammad was a wanton man among wanton companions. If he were a virtuous man then his companions will be virtuous people too." The Shia curse the Companions who are the righteous pattern to this Ummah and Allah bear witness for that:

      (Some part is due) to the indigent Muhajirs (the Companions who emigrated from Mecca), those who were expelled from their homes and their property, while seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure, and aiding Allah and His Messenger: such are indeed the sincere ones;

      But those who, before them, had homes (in Medina) and had adopted the Faith, show their affection to such as came to them for refuge, and entertain no desire in their hearts for things given to the (latter), but give them preference over themselves, even though poverty was their (own lot). And those saved from the covetousness of their own souls; they are the ones that achieve prosperity.

      And those who came after them say: "Our Lord! Forgive us, and our brethren who came before us into the Faith, and leave not, in our hearts, rancour (or sense of injury) against those who have believed. Our Lord! Thou art indeed Full of Kindness, Most Merciful." (Qur'an Hashr: 8-10)

      Shia cusses Abu-Bakr and his daughter Aisha, the wife of the prophet (pbuh), but they regard his son since he fought with Ali. So, they hate the best one in this Ummah after The Prophet and they regard his son who does not have any contribution in raising Islam.

      Shia misconception about Sunnis that we do not consider Ali anything is wrong. As Musalman said, we regard him highest status with Abu Bakr and Umar and Uthman. We do not pick some member of his family to be good, because they fought with him or anything like that. He was a good man, a good companion and a good Clipha. Its the people who changed and filled other peoples heart with hate towards other sahaaba, basically those people were jews, who wanted to break Islam from within and they suceeded in fooling some Muslims in cursing and defaming Sahaaba.

      May Allah show them the right path.

      PS: Insaniyaat, you are in no where near to be judge of WHAT abu bakr was thinking when he was in cave with Prophet Mohammad. Leave that to Allah, you are in no position to do that, besides worry about your self. [If I was to judge something about you, saying your a disbeliever, you would go crazy, saying: "oh watcher is judgmental and watcher is bad person and watcher is this and that..." right? You would call me every bad word, and cry your face off with calls to seek justice of what I judged about you.] So put a lid on stupidity and start using your brain for God sake.

      Take it easy. http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif


      ------------------
      *V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
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      -_-_-_-High Priest_-OF-_Painful Truth-_-_-_-

    16. #16
      *'*Illegal Obsessions*'*
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      Originally posted by Insaniyat:
      Keeping aside wether the second companion is referred to as Prophet, Abu Baker someone else, the thing that suprised me the most was that Abu Baker was with Holy Prophet, and on the right path, but i dont know why was he grieving so much for life, if he would have got killed he would have been a shaheed, which should have been a big blessing for him, to me personally it shows his lack of faith, Holy Prophet had to console him, on the other hand Hazrat Ali he slept on the bed of the Prophet, risking his own life for haq.

      just think for a second....DO YOU ACTUALLY THINK ALLAH WOULD FIRST MENTION ABU BAKR AS THE COMPANION OF THE PROPHET, ADN TEHN INTENTIONALLY PUT THE WORD FEAR TO DEGRADE HIS PRESENCE???

      secondly, no human being is perfect! it has been described in the quran (NUMEROUS TIMES) that even the prophet at times was not foremost (in his mission) after incidents with teh mushrekeen....(i'll be more than happy to provide these ayahs for you if you want to see them)I can also recall a hadith from al-kafi which clearly shows the imperfectness of the prophet(also available at ur request)
      waiting for ur reply...

      ------------------

      It's not how fast you were GOING, It's how fast you STOPPED!


      [This message has been edited by X_Communist (edited December 19, 2000).]

    17. #17
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      .

      [This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited December 22, 2000).]
      "And those who oppress shall see what kind of outcome overturns them." [26:227] Al-Quran

    18. #18
      Erm?
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      Well, Well well Watcher Are we denying Quranic verses hear?

      "Do not grieve; indeed Allah is with us."

      This u say describes Abu Jee, Right?
      (and it is for the Hijrat)

      This Describes Hazrat Ali on the night of Hijrat!

      and when the infeilds plotted against thee, that they might thee a prisoner or put you death, or turn thee out, and they plotted against , but Allah laid a plot against themand Allah is the best layer of plots
      (sura 8;30)

      The plot is non other than hazrat Ali sleeping in the prophets bed and by this another verse came to the prophet in this form:

      And of men there is one who sells his soul fort the sake and grace of God"

      This man who sold his soul is non-other than hazreat Ali on the night of hijrat!

      Let us compare

      Abu-bakar=scared of death (and being given faith in Allah

      Hazrat Ali=facing almost certain Death and accepting it willfuly!

      1. ayat for Abu jee and two ayats for Hazrat Alis greatness!

      [This message has been edited by Shah Jahan (edited December 20, 2000).]

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