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    1. #19
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      Poppies said 35+, not exactly 35.

    2. #20
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      ^OK. I assumed somewhere between 35 and 36 because for some reason 35 number was used.
      Impress me..with your intelligence and wit. :-)

    3. #21
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      I am 1+ so I'm 1.5

    4. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by Jafri View Post
      I am 1+ so I'm 1.5
      Jafri Bhai I gave you my answer with reason and agreed with you. So let it go. Shabash.

      My question to poppies remains.
      Impress me..with your intelligence and wit. :-)

    5. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lusi View Post
      As far my understanding goes, women need mehram for the visa purpose and not for the actual hajj. What if the women ends up being a widow or divorced @ 35? If she has financhial means, she can certainly go for hajj. Anyway, instead of going by herself, she can contact the mulana sahab and maybe go with the group.

      What about nephew?
      Thanks Lusi....My understanding is that a Mehrum is a male and excatly like Jafri stated .. a man that cannot marry u and is blood related.. I was surprised that someone mentioned and forgive me Lusi if it was u that a women is also condidered Mehrum? but Lusi I think u may have hit the nail on the head- the mehrum u need is to "represent" a female for visa purposes.. alhamd the Haj u can perform individually as does everyone else.... I guess Im gonna be hearing responses to this point

      Quote Originally Posted by Jafri View Post
      Yeah.. aunt and nephew are mehram to each other.
      Quote Originally Posted by Jafri View Post

      I'm not sure poppies. Obviously they're mehram since they can hug and whatnot lol. But I think it has to be a mehram relative.
      Yes Jafri...I always believed it was a male Mehrum and in this case my friend did have a Saudi guy who put the stamp to say he was Mehrum to her ( but then thats confusing cos he could potentially marry her as hes an ajnabi)


      By definition Mehrum concept is for men who cannot marry the women. Not women to women. .. Thanks Diwana

      Poppies says she is 35. The visa requirement for these kind of women by KSA is 45+. Also a NOC from a Mehrum who cannot travel, in these kind of cases.

      Not sure how she got the visa. Something needs explanation for others to learn.[/QUOTE]
      Diwana, Jafri is rite I said 35 plus .. without disclosing her real age, shes actually closer to being 40 but regardless of age.... women who are single/ divorced do appear to be going on Haj with groups so therefore Haj must be allowed.



      Quote Originally Posted by diwana View Post
      Jafri Bhai I gave you my answer with reason and agreed with you. So let it go. Shabash.

      My question to poppies remains.
      Diwana I hope the above was able to answer ur qn u put to me about her age.. Im gonna chat to her to get the accurate facts so that may be clearer to all .. thanks hun
      .....But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
      I have spread my dreams under your feet,
      Tread softly because you tread on my dreams...

    6. #24
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      ^ Thanks.
      Impress me..with your intelligence and wit. :-)

    7. #25
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      Here are the requirements for the Visa in Saudi Arabia for Hajj - referring to women travelling:

      All women are required to travel for Hajj with a Mahram. Proof of kinship must be submitted with the application form. Women over the age of forty-five (45) may travel without a Mahram with an organized group, They must, however submits a no objection letter from her husband, son or brother authorizing her to travel for Hajj with the named group. This letter should be notarized.

      http://www.saudiembassy.net/services...uirements.aspx

      Those women younger than 45 going in the group have to "lie" that one of the men in their group is their mahram. Hajj on a lie? It is being done all the time.
      The Prophet(SAW) said:
      "I am leaving you two things and you will never go astray as long as you cling to them -- they are the Book of Allah and my Sunnah." [Reported by Al- Haakim - Sahih].

    8. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by psyah View Post
      Here are the requirements for the Visa in Saudi Arabia for Hajj - referring to women travelling:

      All women are required to travel for Hajj with a Mahram. Proof of kinship must be submitted with the application form. Women over the age of forty-five (45) may travel without a Mahram with an organized group, They must, however submits a no objection letter from her husband, son or brother authorizing her to travel for Hajj with the named group. This letter should be notarized.

      http://www.saudiembassy.net/services...uirements.aspx

      Those women younger than 45 going in the group have to "lie" that one of the men in their group is their mahram. Hajj on a lie? It is being done all the time.

      Thanks Psyah and u raise some very provoking points..however my friend is actually 42 and now what u state is quite contentious.. I feel it would be sacrilege if people are haing to "lie" to perform Haj but u state that this appears to happen all the time which totally defeats the objective of doing Haj in the first place. I really appreciate your research and may Allah swt grant us with taqwa and Deen Ameen.... to answer my question, it seems like Haj for women single/ divorced is permissible alhamdolilah
      Last edited by poppies; Dec 6th, 2010 at 04:29 AM.
      .....But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
      I have spread my dreams under your feet,
      Tread softly because you tread on my dreams...

    9. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by diwana View Post
      Jafri Bhai I gave you my answer with reason and agreed with you. So let it go. Shabash.

      My question to poppies remains.
      Lol I was trying to make it a joke, not mocking you. Aite bro.

    10. #28
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      ^ OK sir.
      Impress me..with your intelligence and wit. :-)

    11. #29
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      its is forbidden for a women to go for Hajj alone.. and a mehram is required.

    12. #30
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      Can't you get a written consent from a mehram - if you don't have one or the one that is sick? I saw ALL women's group at Hajj.

      What reasoning do the travel agency use for those packages for only women?
      A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

    13. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sussana View Post
      its is forbidden for a women to go for Hajj alone.. and a mehram is required.
      Sorry Sussana but evidently thats not the case- it cannot be haraam- as single women in groups do perform hajj and what evidence do u have to say its "haraam"??

      Quote Originally Posted by njgal View Post
      Can't you get a written consent from a mehram - if you don't have one or the one that is sick? I saw ALL women's group at Hajj.

      What reasoning do the travel agency use for those packages for only women?
      Thanks N but it appears the travel group arrange the visas and a mehrums stamp- and apparently theres an age limit that the Saudi stipulate- until I investigate I cant elaborate much.. but the point is that as u saw, Single women do perform hajj and Allah swt knows best
      .....But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
      I have spread my dreams under your feet,
      Tread softly because you tread on my dreams...

    14. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by poppies View Post
      Sallams all

      One of my single friends 35+ mashallah performed Haj with a women 's group from the UAE. Please can you all enlighten me and give your knowledge and advice on whether this is permissible/ jayez? or does this depend on what school of thought you allign yourself to?....please I would really appreciate some valid feedback as its something that one could consider in the future inshallah ... Jazakallah khairun in advance

      First of all whats this thread doing here in wrong place . shudnt it be in religion ..???
      "My dear heart never think you are better than others. Listen to their sorrows with compassion. If you want peace, don't harbour bad thoughts do not gossip and don't teach what you do not know." [Maulana Rumi]

    15. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by Fbi786 View Post
      First of all whats this thread doing here in wrong place . shudnt it be in religion ..???
      Heyy Sallams FBI inshallah hope ur well.. FBI , I deliberately did not choose to put this in that Forum as for me , the key question I asked was asked in a spiritual light - Yes typically anything to do with Haj and Umrah would be alligned to the Religion and Scriptures thread but I didnt want to loose essence of my key question
      1) Can single women go and perform haj
      2) Is there any evidence from either Hadiths/ Scholars/ Quraane ne Pak or Schools of thought that support this?...I wanted intelligent and reasoned feedback which alhamdolilah I feel this thread has demonstrated. I hope ur able to see this FBI .. Thanks
      .....But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
      I have spread my dreams under your feet,
      Tread softly because you tread on my dreams...

    16. #34
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      In Qur'an:

      Surah Al Baqarah 2:126:
      "And complete the Hajj and 'umrah for Allah, اور خدا (کی خوشنودی) کے لئے حج اور عمرے کو پورا کرو۔
      Surah Al Imran 3:97

      In it are clear signs [such as] the standing place of Abraham. And whoever enters it shall be safe. And [due] to Allah from the people is a pilgrimage to the House - for whoever is able to find thereto a way. But whoever disbelieves - then indeed, Allah is free from need of the worlds.
      اس میں کھلی ہوئی نشانیاں ہیں جن میں سے ایک ابراہیم کے کھڑے ہونے کی جگہ ہے جو شخص اس (مبارک) گھر میں داخل ہوا اس نے امن پا لیا اور لوگوں پر خدا کا حق (یعنی فرض) ہے کہ جو اس گھر تک جانے کا مقدور رکھے وہ اس کا حج کرے اور جو اس حکم کی تعمیل نہ کرے گا تو خدا بھی اہلِ عالم سے بے نیاز ہے

      According to the various Hadiths:

      Book Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihad) - Sahih Bukhari
      Hadith No. 250
      Narrated Ibn Abbas: That he heard the Prophet saying, "It is not permissible for a man to be alone with a woman, and no lady should travel except with a Muhram (i.e. her husband or a person whom she cannot marry in any case for ever; e.g. her father, brother, etc.)." Then a man got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have enlisted in the army for such-and-such Ghazwa and my wife is proceeding for Hajj." Allah's Apostle said, "Go, and perform the Hajj with your wife."
      Book 'Penalty of Hunting while on Pilgrimmage - Sahih Bukhari
      Hadith No. 85
      Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet said, "A woman should not travel except with a Dhu-Mahram (her husband or a man with whom that woman cannot marry at all according to the Islamic Jurisprudence), and no man may visit her except in the presence of a Dhu-Mahram." A man got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I intend to go to such and such an army and my wife wants to perform Hajj." The Prophet said (to him), "Go along with her (to Hajj)."

      Hadith No. 87

      Narrated Qaza'a, the slave of Ziyad: Abu Said who participated in twelve Ghazawat with the Prophet said, "I heard four things from Allah's Apostle (or I narrate them from the Prophet ) which won my admiration and appreciation. They are: 1. "No lady should travel without her husband or without a Dhu-Mahram for a two-days' journey. 2. No fasting is permissible on two days of 'Id-al-Fitr, and 'Id-al-Adha. 3. No prayer (may be offered) after two prayers: after the 'Asr prayer till the sun set and after the morning prayer till the sun rises. 4. Not to travel (for visiting) except for three mosques: Masjid-al-Haram (in Mecca), my Mosque (in Medina), and Masjid-al-Aqsa (in Jerusalem)."
      Book Shortening the Prayers (At-Taqseer) - Sahih Bukhari

      Hadith No. 192
      Narrated Ibn 'Umar: The Prophet said, "A woman should not travel for more than three days except with a Dhi-Mahram (i.e. a male with whom she cannot marry at all, e.g. her brother, father, grandfather, etc.) or her own husband.)"

      Hadith No. 193

      Narrated Ibn'Umar: The Prophet said, "A woman should not travel for more than three days except with a Dhi-Mahram."

      Hadith No. 194

      Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet (p.b.u.h) said, "It is not permissible for a woman who believes in Allah and the Last Day to travel for one day and night except with a Mahram."
      Book General Subjects - Malik's Muwatta
      Hadith No. 54.14.37

      Malik related to me from Said ibn Abi Said al-Maqburi from Abu Hurayra that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "It is not halal for a woman who believes in Allah and the Last Day to travel the distance of a day and night without a man who is her mahram."
      What is the ruling of women performing Hajj without a Mahram?

      There are five general conditions before Hajj becomes compulsory upon someone. They are that the person is Muslim, has reached the age of discernment, is of full mental capacity and is not a slave. Additionally, they must be capable of completing the journey to Hajj, both physically and financially.

      Both males and females share these conditions. However, the Muslim woman has an extra condition before she can be held accountable for not performing Hajj and that is the accompaniment of a Mahram.

      The statements of the scholars regarding this matter:

      The Shafi'iyyah state that Hajj is not obligatory upon a woman until she finds a male Mahram relative or a husband or a group of trusted women. If she finds any of the previous three, it is obligatory upon her to perform Hajj. If she cannot find one of the three, she is not obliged to perform the Hajj.

      The condition that the Shafi'iyyah hold for a woman to perform Hajj is that she must be able to perform the journey securely. This security can be found when a husband or a Mahram or a group of trusted women accompanies her.

      In the popular opinion of the Madhhab, it is permissible for a woman to perform Hajj if she finds only one trusted women to take the journey with. More so, they say it is permissible for her to travel alone if she shall be safe and she fears nothing on the road. This is how they understand the ahadith which forbid a woman from traveling alone.

      However, if she has already performed her first obligatory Hajj and this is a voluntary performance, then she is not permitted to travel alone - she must be accompanied by a husband or a Mahram. In this case, traveling with a group of trusted women is not permitted; this is the more correct position in the Madhhab.

      The opinion of the Malikiyyah is similar to that of the Shafi'iyyah in that they allow a woman who does not find a Mahram or husband to travel with a secure group. They add that this secure group may be a group of men, a group of women, or a group made up of men and women.

      In the Madhhab of Imam Ahmad, Hajj is not obligatory upon a woman who does not find a Mahram or husband to travel with her. In fact, Imam Ahmad specifically commented on this issue, as Abu Dawud states: I said to Ahmad, "A wealthy woman who does not find a Mahram to travel with her to perform Hajj, is Hajj Wajib upon her?" He said, "No."

      They cited as proof for what the opinion that they took a selection of Ahadith which we shall mention shortly.

      The Hanafiyyah held an opinion similar to that of the Hanabilah. They said that Hajj is not compulsory upon a woman who does not find a Mahram or husband to travel with. In addition to the following Ahadith, they said that for her to perform Hajj without male assistance would expose her to situations that may very well harm her.

      A Discussion of the Dalil

      [The woman should not travel except accompanied by a Mahram]

      Hadith Adi in which the Prophet (peace be upon him) said to him "if your life is prolonged, you shall live to see Adh-Dha'inah (a woman) traveling from Al-Hirah (in Iraq) all the way until she performs Tawaf of the Ka'bah, fearing no one except Allah."

      They also cite Qiyas. They compare a woman traveling alone to that of a woman who converts to Islam in the land of the Kuffar. Or a Muslim woman who may have escaped from the clutches of the disbelievers - in both cases there is unanimous agreement that she is permitted to travel alone. So should the case be in her traveling alone to perform Hajj.

      The Hanafiyyah and the Hanabilah reject these proofs with the authentic Ahadith that forbade a woman from traveling alone. It is true, they say, that the Hadith of Adi is authentic, but it was a statement of the Prophet (peace be upon him) that did not amount to him sanctioning the act. Rather, it was an account to Adi of what would happen in the future.

      As Imam Ash-Shawkani said, it is more befitting to take the Hadith to mean that such a thing would happen - not that it is permissible. This is so there would be no contradiction between it and the Ahadith that forbid women from traveling alone.
      Never explain urself to any1 The person who likes u doesn't need it &The person who dislike u won't believe it

    17. #35
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      LK.. jazakallah khairun for providing hadiths and sources that support that women can perform haj as long as certain conditions are met. alhamdolilah...Thank you
      .....But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
      I have spread my dreams under your feet,
      Tread softly because you tread on my dreams...

    18. #36
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      It has been a while I read this, but I think from pure Quran and Hadith, it is not allowed for women to go for Hajj without a Mehrum.

      Some sects and religious people later allowed that with some conditions.
      Impress me..with your intelligence and wit. :-)

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