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    1. #1
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      In muharram,hatred among different believes of muslim sects appears in actual and it is to be finished now I think.
      The only way to finish such hatred is to respect each others believes and to respect each others' leaders and imam's.

      In my belief,all imams and all caliphs are respectable.

      Hazrat Abu bakar,Hazrat Umar,Hazrat Usman and Hazrat Ali all are respectable.
      Also Imam Hussain,Imam Hassan,Imam Jaafar Saadiq,and other imam are also respectable.
      Why we muslim waste our time to fight on the issue which are not basics of our believes.

      When all muslim believe that Allah is one and Muhammad (SalAllaho alaihe wasallam) is his messenger, then why we can not become one.

    2. #2
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      In early islamic history, Muslims fought each other and this caused end of khilafat among muslims.and muslims did not teach lesson to their early history till now.Till now, they are fighting among each other and there in no khilafa among them. and whoever claims to be having khilafa like ahmadies claim that they have khilafat among them since 100 years, then why muslims ca not have such khilafa.

      Is not time have come to re-unite muslim???
      Are ahmadies true muslims as they are united in the hand of khilafat???

    3. #3
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      Quote Originally Posted by bashri84 View Post
      Why we muslim waste our time to fight on the issue which are not basics of our believes.
      you are obviously a sunni, you are underestimating how different the two religions are

      most contentious issues are part of the basic beliefs of shias or sunnis. for example the shia believe the prophet saw elected ali ra but the muslim ummah apostated except 3 or so people

      indeed it is a vulgar belief, and if you condone it then our religion is in ruins. and thats what the shia aim is as revenge for the jihad of umar radiallahu anhu, the war in which their brethren died fighting for ali ra and a few other issues including their unwillingness to 100% leave their former religions.

      here shia fatwa for you borrowed from br. TS
      arabs = sunnis and sahaba (may Allah be pleased with them)
      Question: (A) Which will be the worst enemies of the Mahdi when he appears; the Jews or the Arabs? (B) Are there narrations clarifying the raja'ah(return) of the Imam Hussein and the Prophet and Ameer al mumineen(Ali) and what is the authenticity of these narrations?

      Answer: (A) The Imam PBUH narrated that when the Mahdi PBUH appears, the people gather around him and he will extract from a mountain the buried Tablets of the Torah and they will find his description in them thus all the Jews will adopt Islam and there will be no enimity between the Imam and the Jews. From that you can conclude the answer to your first question.

      (B) al Allamah al Majlisi (rah) says: how can a believer doubt the truth of the pure Imams PBUT, what is Mutawatir(100% Authentic) from them in around 200 SAHIH hadiths narrated by around 40 trustworthy narrators and great scholars in more than 50 of their books proving that Imam al Mahdi PBUH will not die until Imam Hussein PBUH returns to this life and he gives him the leadership, also in a couple of narrations and Ziyarat we find what hints towards the return of all Imams.

      link:http://www.istefta.com/question/5289
      screenimage:http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/q...anysal/CCC.jpg
      when they accept narrations of the sahaba and give up their fabrications and leave infidelity, we can have unity

      if it was just about simple choice of leadership after the passing of the prophet we could get over that but that is not the case. they even have fabricated hadiths of their imams telling them to do the opposite of the muslims

    4. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by shardmanny View Post
      you are obviously a sunni, you are underestimating how different the two religions are

      most contentious issues are part of the basic beliefs of shias or sunnis. for example the shia believe the prophet saw elected ali ra but the muslim ummah apostated except 3 or so people

      indeed it is a vulgar belief, and if you condone it then our religion is in ruins. and thats what the shia aim is as revenge for the jihad of umar radiallahu anhu, the war in which their brethren died fighting for ali ra and a few other issues including their unwillingness to 100% leave their former religions.

      here shia fatwa for you borrowed from br. TS
      arabs = sunnis and sahaba (may Allah be pleased with them)


      when they accept narrations of the sahaba and give up their fabrications and leave infidelity, we can have unity

      if it was just about simple choice of leadership after the passing of the prophet we could get over that but that is not the case. they even have fabricated hadiths of their imams telling them to do the opposite of the muslims

      what a wonderful post on the topic of uniting ummah! Shame on you!
      May Allah bring peace in Pakistan. Ameen
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    5. #5
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      Bashir84 bhai i'm glad you made this post as i was planning on doing so.

      I want to see Muslim unity but for that to happen we need to learn respect and recognise one another and come to a consensus.

      Islam should be a meritocracy, not a democracy where we follow the masses blindly like sheep.

      I am myself a Sunni but I have many close Shia friends, friends who I see as brothers despite our differences in belief.

      I have Wahabi friends and even some Ismali friends... I have never made friends with an Ahmedi though. Years ago I was full of hate towards them and still have some reservations but I'm willing to talk to anyone as a friend so long as we can both be courteous and respectful of the other.
      Everyone knows "Jaws" was Chuck Norris's Goldfish, but not many folk know that "Godzilla" was Faris Udeen's pet Iguana.

    6. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by shardmanny View Post
      you are obviously a sunni, you are underestimating how different the two religions are

      most contentious issues are part of the basic beliefs of shias or sunnis. for example the shia believe the prophet saw elected ali ra but the muslim ummah apostated except 3 or so people

      indeed it is a vulgar belief, and if you condone it then our religion is in ruins. and thats what the shia aim is as revenge for the jihad of umar radiallahu anhu, the war in which their brethren died fighting for ali ra and a few other issues including their unwillingness to 100% leave their former religions.

      here shia fatwa for you borrowed from br. TS
      arabs = sunnis and sahaba (may Allah be pleased with them)


      when they accept narrations of the sahaba and give up their fabrications and leave infidelity, we can have unity

      if it was just about simple choice of leadership after the passing of the prophet we could get over that but that is not the case. they even have fabricated hadiths of their imams telling them to do the opposite of the muslims

      And what are you smoking ?
      Love Pakistan........ and Sammiches
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      love flooding threads too :)


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      Quote Originally Posted by Faris Udeen View Post
      Bashir84 bhai i'm glad you made this post as i was planning on doing so.

      I want to see Muslim unity but for that to happen we need to learn respect and recognise one another and come to a consensus.

      Islam should be a meritocracy, not a democracy where we follow the masses blindly like sheep.

      I am myself a Sunni but I have many close Shia friends, friends who I see as brothers despite our differences in belief.

      I have Wahabi friends and even some Ismali friends... I have never made friends with an Ahmedi though. Years ago I was full of hate towards them and still have some reservations but I'm willing to talk to anyone as a friend so long as we can both be courteous and respectful of the other.
      How exactly would you respect some one who openly believes that your MOM was BAD LADY? answer to this may clear few things in your mind!!!


      Anyway, there is no chance of unity between Shai and Sunni... as Shardmanny said, there is difference in basic believes, the Personalities which are respected and followed by Sunnies are thrashed by Shias ( some thing like character of Mehmood of Ghazna, who is hero of Muslims of sub-continent and central Asia and a negative character for Hindus).

      The way peace is possible provided both sides should try and build their base on Quran but that may have another hurdle, Most of Shia believes that the Quran we have is not the original one, some say that Hazrat Ali (RZA) kept the original version to Himself and His household saying that whatever Usman (RZA) have compiled is enough for Muslims and some believes that a Six year old BOY escaped and is still in hiding with the original copy of Quran and some have believe that the text of Quran has been altered, the ayats signifying the importance and ruling rights of Ahl-e-Bait has been deleted...

      So what would be the basis of Peace? peace for the sake of peace never works, it get shattered with the 1st sign of weakness of other party and thats what has been happening from last 1350 years...
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    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by shardmanny View Post
      most contentious issues are part of the basic beliefs of shias or sunnis. for example the shia believe the prophet saw elected ali ra but the muslim ummah apostated except 3 or so people

      indeed it is a vulgar belief,
      The vulgarity rather exists in your typical Nasibi thinking that has been evolved due to hatred litrature. You need to correct yourself, it is not a basic Shia belief that muslim ummah apostated except 3 or so people. I know you which sorty of tradition you are relying upon, if that is thecase, I will be happily quoting similar text from Sunni sources as well. So if you really want to escapte embarrassment, you need to first consult Shias in order to understand the Shia text rather than relying upon them in the light of the interpretation being feed into your mind by anti-Shia individuals.



      and if you condone it then our religion is in ruins. and thats what the shia aim is as revenge for the jihad of umar radiallahu anhu, the war in which their brethren died fighting for ali ra and a few other issues including their unwillingness to 100% leave their former religions.
      If you had been a bit more specefic, I am sure you would have faced embarrassment here as well since this also seems to be some Nasibi story feed into your mind.

      here shia fatwa for you borrowed from br. TS
      arabs = sunnis and sahaba (may Allah be pleased with them)


      when they accept narrations of the sahaba and give up their fabrications and leave infidelity, we can have unity
      Okay so you want that tone to be used here! alright then!

      Whenever you come into the pale of Islam by accepting the intruction of Hoply Prophet via which you are under obligation to follow Quran and Ahlulbayt and not those ordinary people who had been infidels for half of their respective lives, only then there can be some talks of unity. Another step required from your side would be to get rid of the Nawasib and Khawarij ancestors whom you openly and shamelessly praise as those individuals were the enemies of Ahlulbayt (as).


      if it was just about simple choice of leadership after the passing of the prophet we could get over that
      Thats not as simple as you would like it to suggest. That is where the foundation of the differences between the two schools exist. You believe that you are smart enough to take over the job of Allah while we believe that it is onyl Allah who can choose best leaders for us.



      Question: (A) Which will be the worst enemies of the Mahdi when he appears; the Jews or the Arabs? (B) Are there narrations clarifying the raja'ah(return) of the Imam Hussein and the Prophet and Ameer al mumineen(Ali) and what is the authenticity of these narrations?

      Answer: (A) The Imam PBUH narrated that when the Mahdi PBUH appears, the people gather around him and he will extract from a mountain the buried Tablets of the Torah and they will find his description in them thus all the Jews will adopt Islam and there will be no enimity between the Imam and the Jews. From that you can conclude the answer to your first question.

      (B) al Allamah al Majlisi (rah) says: how can a believer doubt the truth of the pure Imams PBUT, what is Mutawatir(100% Authentic) from them in around 200 SAHIH hadiths narrated by around 40 trustworthy narrators and great scholars in more than 50 of their books proving that Imam al Mahdi PBUH will not die until Imam Hussein PBUH returns to this life and he gives him the leadership, also in a couple of narrations and Ziyarat we find what hints towards the return of all Imams.

      link:http://www.istefta.com/question/5289
      screenimage:http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/q...anysal/CCC.jpg
      Perhaps the hatred and Nasibism in your made you to overlook the red part of the fatwa and reach to an absurd conclusion.

    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by hanibal View Post
      How exactly would you respect some one who openly believes that your MOM was BAD LADY? answer to this may clear few things in your mind!!!
      by the same token and from Shia prespective, how exactly would you respect some one who openly believes that those indivduals who hated, cursed, absued, and even fought and murdered our Imams, the Imams of Ahlulbayt (as) were extremely pious or very truthful ones!



      Anyway, there is no chance of unity between Shai and Sunni... as Shardmanny said, there is difference in basic believes, the Personalities which are respected and followed by Sunnies are thrashed by Shias ( some thing like character of Mehmood of Ghazna, who is hero of Muslims of sub-continent and central Asia and a negative character for Hindus).
      As I pointed out earlier, same goes from Shia prespective, there is difference in basic believes, the Personalities which are respected and followed by Shias are thrashed by Sunnies by paraising, respecting and adhering to the all time enemies of the fomer!

      The way peace is possible provided both sides should try and build their base on Quran but that may have another hurdle, Most of Shia believes that the Quran we have is not the original one, some say that Hazrat Ali (RZA) kept the original version to Himself and His household saying that whatever Usman (RZA) have compiled is enough for Muslims and some believes that a Six year old BOY escaped and is still in hiding with the original copy of Quran and some have believe that the text of Quran has been altered, the ayats signifying the importance and ruling rights of Ahl-e-Bait has been deleted...
      Yes we might come on Quran but fom Sunni side a problem will come that a Sunni might come saying that he does not believe in the present Quran complied by Uthman rather he believes in the Quran in which Ayesha lad faith because as per Ayesha there are four mistakes in this present Quran, moreover we may have another Sunni coming in saying that I strong believe that there is mistake in Surah Raad as my dear Sahabi Ibn Abbas (ra) had pointed out. And on the top of it, a Sunni might appear from a side shouting that Surah Fateha is not part of Quran as my dear Sahabi Ibn Masood (ra) believed. And wait a minute, why not another Sunni coming yapping that I do not beleive in the present Quran as my beloved Sahabi Ibn Masood (ra) belived that Surah Falaq and Surah Naas are not part of the Quran, and so an and so forth!!


      So what would be the basis of Peace?
      Same question from my side hence I would also eagerly wait for its reply here.

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      ^^ Thus there can be no peace!!!
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      Quote Originally Posted by hanibal View Post
      ^^ Thus there can be no peace!!!
      ok fine!

      Quote Originally Posted by bashri84 View Post
      In muharram,hatred among different believes of muslim sects appears in actual and it is to be finished now I think.
      The only way to finish such hatred is to respect each others believes and to respect each others' leaders and imam's.

      In my belief,all imams and all caliphs are respectable.

      Hazrat Abu bakar,Hazrat Umar,Hazrat Usman and Hazrat Ali all are respectable.
      Also Imam Hussain,Imam Hassan,Imam Jaafar Saadiq,and other imam are also respectable.
      Why we muslim waste our time to fight on the issue which are not basics of our believes.

      When all muslim believe that Allah is one and Muhammad (SalAllaho alaihe wasallam) is his messenger, then why we can not become one.
      bro bashir, no need to get intimidated by conversation that has taken place above by some of the hardliners and me, such element will always remain there, you please carry on with your positive mentality.

    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by BOY-NICE View Post
      ok fine!
      How easy it is to pick fight option!!!


      Peace prevailed among sunnah and Shiayat but requirement of the peace is that both shall go back to basics, something very difficult to practice, hence denied by both... obviously no fun in that!!!


      As for Sunnah ( as far my knowledge is concerned) no one calls name curse and/or make fun of Ahl-e-Bayt and Aima (RZA) and even if some does, it is their own act but have nothing to do with their basic belief. For me, The House of Ali (RZA) is one of the beacon of Islam, if i follow the path laid out by them, i can be successful in he world hereafter!!! i believe that most of the Sunnah have same faith about them...

      As far as Shiya is considered, calling name and cursing was never part of their basic believes, specially of the Aa'ima (RA), it all prevailed on the lower scales and by the people who claimed themselves from Shiyan-e-Ali and yet objected the decisions and way of life of House of Ali (RZA).


      Hence, if both parties goes back to their basics which is difficult to practice, no way easy to fight your own nafs and follow the path of Rasool (SAAW) and his Companions (RZA),


      but like i said, it is easier to pick fighting option, so much fun and attraction for many, requires comparatively less efforts and IQ, so neither side would call it off...
      Last edited by hanibal; Dec 14th, 2010 at 01:46 AM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by hanibal View Post
      How easy it is to pick fight option!!!

      Peace prevailed among sunnah and Shiayat but requirement of the peace is that both shall go back to basics, something very difficult to practice, hence denied by both... obviously no fun in that!!!
      ok its finally good to see that you are now talking sense. I was only trying to copy your approach which was quite abusrd btw.

      As for Sunnah ( as far my knowledge is concerned) no one calls name curse and/or make fun of Ahl-e-Bayt and Aima (RZA) and even if some does, it is their own act but have nothing to do with their basic belief. For me, The House of Ali (RZA) is one of the beacon of Islam, if i follow the path laid out by them, i can be successful in he world hereafter!!! i believe that most of the Sunnah have same faith about them...

      As far as Shiya is considered, calling name and cursing was never part of their basic believes, specially of the Aa'ima (RA), it all prevailed on the lower scales and by the people who claimed themselves from Shiyan-e-Ali .
      Calling names or abusing he never been the part of Shia faith and I firmly believe that if someone still does it (though I have seen Shias now refraining from it) he is not providing any benefit to anyone including his own school.

      Hence, if both parties goes back to their basics which is difficult to practice, no way easy to fight your own nafs and follow the path of Rasool (SAAW) and his Companions (RZA),
      As far as Shias are concorned, we do not believe that following 'companions' was ever a basic part of faith, instead, it was the basic obligation to adhere to Quran and Ahlulbayt, the companions themselves were supposed to do the same. So here is a minor yet a major difference which is the root cause of all the further differences according to me.

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      Quote Originally Posted by BOY-NICE View Post
      ok its finally good to see that you are now talking sense. I was only trying to copy your approach which was quite abusrd btw.
      actually it is hate hidden in the heart which never allows anyone to read and to understand others view point, reading anyone with the intention to challenge it limits the human capacity to absorb and seek for truth...

      Quote Originally Posted by BOY-NICE View Post

      As far as Shias are concorned, we do not believe that following 'companions' was ever a basic part of faith, instead, it was the basic obligation to adhere to Quran and Ahlulbayt, the companions themselves were supposed to do the same. So here is a minor yet a major difference which is the root cause of all the further differences according to me.
      Shia and Sunni both can abandon Companions (RZA) and Aa'ima (AS) all together!!! Would that be acceptable to you? ( though i think you have not got the point when i said Following path laid by Companions (RZA)) Lets live by Quran Only!!! The living Miracle at home of almost every Muslim!!! let us choose to read it from the very beginning..where it Introduces us to Allah All Mighty!!!
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    15. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by bashri84 View Post
      Are ahmadies true muslims as they are united in the hand of khilafat???
      Ahmadies are not muslims. . . they are not in circle of Islam. . .

      As a Muslim or Islam says , MUHAMMAD (S.A.W.W) ALLAH's last prophet whereas , ahmadies says that their khalifa is last (Naozobillah)

      So they are not muslim.
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      Quote Originally Posted by hanibal View Post
      actually it is hate hidden in the heart which never allows anyone to read and to understand others view point, reading anyone with the intention to challenge it limits the human capacity to absorb and seek for truth...



      Shia and Sunni both can abandon Companions (RZA) and Aa'ima (AS) all together!!! Would that be acceptable to you? ( though i think you have not got the point when i said Following path laid by Companions (RZA)) Lets live by Quran Only!!! The living Miracle at home of almost every Muslim!!! let us choose to read it from the very beginning..where it Introduces us to Allah All Mighty!!!
      Unfortunately, Muslims at such a state of disaster that they interpret the QURAN in their own easy way. . . they changes the meaning (sometime n some verses) or u can say the interpretation is so different that all the Fiqa's have their own view points. . .

      A serious drawback of Muslims. . .
      Laziness will cause u pain

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      Quote Originally Posted by princess ku View Post
      Unfortunately, Muslims at such a state of disaster that they interpret the QURAN in their own easy way. . . they changes the meaning (sometime n some verses) or u can say the interpretation is so different that all the Fiqa's have their own view points. . .

      A serious drawback of Muslims. . .
      Ditto. Ajnd to add more to this reply for hanibal, again for us the question will arise whether we are adhering to Ahlulbayt in order to understand Quran, that is the onyl method to understand Quran according to our school, but this cannot be the case with you, so I dont think this is a solution.

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      Quote Originally Posted by princess ku View Post
      Unfortunately, Muslims at such a state of disaster that they interpret the QURAN in their own easy way. . . they changes the meaning (sometime n some verses) or u can say the interpretation is so different that all the Fiqa's have their own view points. . .

      A serious drawback of Muslims. . .

      I cannot recall that particular aya where it is Said by All-Mighty that, O'Mohammad, you have no relation to the one who create group and divisions among muslims (interpretation)... then there is another aya which clearly says to all the muslims to grab the ROPE of Allah and stay united...


      I am firm believer that Muslims cannot and should not say NO to direct order of the Creator... and if they have their own version of these orders and their own way of practicing ( other then What is Taught by His Messenger (SAAW)) then they should rightly call themselves anything they want.. because again Allah has said in his book that He had named and selected the religion of ISLAM for us and have strictly told us to follow Islam... and also have said us to spread HIS message to others ( and that is not by force), but if others who have given the brain and who have ability to read and understand but didn't do so for certain reasons.. then it is their problem and Allah would tackle with them...
      Ban - Aamir Liaqat, Mubashar Luqman and Morning Shows for good on all channels

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