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    1. #1
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      I wanted to know What was the family relationship between Hazrat Umar and Hazrat ali ?

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      It is the same as that of Hazrat Ali (radiallah anhu) has with Rasoolallah (peace be upon him).
      Hazrat Umar (radiallah anhu is son in law of Hazrat Ali (radiallah anhu)!

      I am sure that it has been dicussed in detail here quite sometime ago - Use the search button.

    3. #3
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      1. Hafsa was wife of Prophet s.a.w hence mother of Bibi Fatima s.a ?

      2. If so Umar was grandfather of Bibi Fatima s.a ?

      3. Daughter of ALI a.s was daughter of Bibi Fatima s.a and Bibi Fatima was grand daughter of Umar ?

      4. Umar married his great grand daughter ?

      If all of above r true then is marrying ur grand daughter or great grand daughter allowed in islam ?
      MARAY ALLAH MAREE IZZAT KAI LIYAY YEHI KAFI HAI KAI MAIN TAIRA BANDA HOON OOR MARAY FAKHAR KAI LIYAY YEHE KAFIHAI KAI TOU MAIRA PURWARDIGAAR. TOU WAISA HAIN JAISA MAIN CHAHTA HOO ..PUSS TOU MUJH KO WAISA BANA DAY JAISAY TOU CHAHTA HAI.

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      in islam we have a ummulmomineen concept, but not father, grandfather, grandmother

      you people wont stop in your campaign against the ahulbayt. Ali ra would not allow his daughter to marry her great grandfather

    5. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by aqeel123 View Post
      1. Hafsa was wife of Prophet s.a.w hence mother of Bibi Fatima s.a ?

      2. If so Umar was grandfather of Bibi Fatima s.a ?

      3. Daughter of ALI a.s was daughter of Bibi Fatima s.a and Bibi Fatima was grand daughter of Umar ?

      4. Umar married his great grand daughter ?

      If all of above r true then is marrying ur grand daughter or great grand daughter allowed in islam ?
      Hey, if it's written down, must be sahih

      Asad al Ghaybah Volume 5 page 367:
      "Abu Umar narrates on the authority of Zubayr Bakri, 'Umar asked for the hand of Ali's daughter, who replied that she was too young. 'Umar asked twice more. 'Ali said 'I shall send the girl to you, if you like her than say 'I accept''. 'Ali then sent the girl with a cloth and told her to say [to 'Umar] 'This is the scarf that I was talking about'. She conveyed these words to 'Umar, who said 'Tell your father that I accept'. Umar then touched the girl's calf. She exclaimed 'You have done this to me? If it hadn't been for the fact that you are Khalifa of the Muslims I would have broken your nose'. The girl went home and repeated the episode to her father, stating 'You sent me to a foul man', with that 'Ali said 'He is your husband'."

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      Quote Originally Posted by shardmanny View Post
      in islam we have a ummulmomineen concept, but not father, grandfather, grandmother

      you people wont stop in your campaign against the ahulbayt. Ali ra would not allow his daughter to marry her great grandfather
      first i didnt say umar is grandfather of all muslims. I said umar was grandfather of Bibi Fatima a.s,Hence great grand father of daughters of Mola Ali a.s

      2nd. we dont claim this marriage took place hence u shld know who is running the campaign against Ahlubayt a.s.
      MARAY ALLAH MAREE IZZAT KAI LIYAY YEHI KAFI HAI KAI MAIN TAIRA BANDA HOON OOR MARAY FAKHAR KAI LIYAY YEHE KAFIHAI KAI TOU MAIRA PURWARDIGAAR. TOU WAISA HAIN JAISA MAIN CHAHTA HOO ..PUSS TOU MUJH KO WAISA BANA DAY JAISAY TOU CHAHTA HAI.

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      ^we all know you have a hard time dealing with it. some say it was forced on ali ra - ie umar ra was threatening him and ali ra decided it was safer to marry her to him, others say it never happend and the last group say it was abu bakr ra's daughter after ali ra married asma ra

      shia scholars:

      Hameed bin Ziad from Ibn Sama’ah, from Muhamad bin Ziad from Abdullah bin Sinan and Muawiyah bin Ammar from Abu Abdullah PBUH: I asked him about the woman whose husband is died, Does she spend her iddat Period in her house or wherever she wants? Imam replied: Wherever She wants, For Ali PBUH when Umar had died he came to his house and took umm Kalthoum to his house.
      Al Allamah Majlisi says: Muwathaq ( meaning “reliable” or Sahih but contradicts what they believe) 21/197.
      Al Allamah Bahbudi Says: SAHIH, 3/121.
      2nd narration:
      - مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى وَ غَيْرُهُ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عِيسَى عَنِ الْحُسَيْنِ بْنِ سَعِيدٍ عَنِ النَّضْرِ بْنِ سُوَيْدٍ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ عَنْ سُلَيْمَانَ بْنِ خَالِدٍ قَالَ سَأَلْتُ أَبَا عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ( عليه السلام ) عَنِ امْرَأَةٍ تُوُفِّيَ زَوْجُهَا أَيْنَ تَعْتَدُّ فِي بَيْتِ زَوْجِهَا تَعْتَدُّ أَوْ حَيْثُ شَاءَتْ قَالَ بَلَى حَيْثُ شَاءَتْ ثُمَّ قَالَ إِنَّ عَلِيّاً (عليه السلام ) لَمَّا مَاتَ عُمَرُ أَتَى أُمَّ كُلْثُومٍ فَأَخَذَ بِيَدِهَا فَانْطَلَقَ بِهَا إِلَى بَيْتِهِ.
      يقول المجلسي صحيح21/199
      البهبودي صحيح3/122)
      Muhammad bin Yahya and others from ahmad bin muhammad bin Isa from Al Hussein Bin Sa’eed from Al Nadir bin Suwayd from hisham bin muslim from suleiman bin Khaled that he said: I asked Abu abdullah PBUH about a woman whose husband had died does she spend her Iddat period in the home of her husband or wherever she pleases? Imam Replied: Yes wherever She wants then he said Because Ali PBUH after umar had died he came and took umm Kalthoum back to his house.
      Al Allamah al Majlisi says: SAHIH 21/199
      Al Allamah al Bahbudi says: SAHIH 3/122.
      Refer: http://gadir.free.fr/Ar/Ehlibeyt/kut...l_Ukul/021.htm
      Now Two Fatwas by two shia alims: one By Sistani and another By Al Khoe’i :
      By Al khoe’i:
      السؤال:
      هل صحيح أن الخليفة الثاني قد تزوج من بنت الامام علي عليه السلام ؟
      الفتوى:
      هكذا ورد في التاريخ والروايات .
      Question :
      Is it true that the second Khalif married the daughter of Imam Ali aleyhi salam ?
      Answer :
      It’s reported like that in history and narrations


      how many of ali ra's children were named umar?

    8. #8
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      Hmmm, I did not know that it was a riwaya-e-ikhtilafi between Shias and sunnis. I thought that its a known and agreed upon fact that Hazrat Ali was also FIL of Hazrat Umar
      My father believed that if the world found out who I really was they'd reject me out of fear.

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      modern shias need a way around this, and have created one, for it gets in the way of the one big matam picture of strife

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      Quote Originally Posted by aqeel123 View Post
      first i didnt say umar is grandfather of all muslims. I said umar was grandfather of Bibi Fatima a.s,Hence great grand father of daughters of Mola Ali a.s

      2nd. we dont claim this marriage took place hence u shld know who is running the campaign against Ahlubayt a.s.
      I dont understand your point at all. Even if Hazrat Umar's daughter was married to the Prophet (PBUH), how does that make Umar the grandfather of Fatima? I think we all agree Hz. Fatima is the daughter of Hz. Khadija or am I just not getting your point?

      and please, for your own sanity and the rest of us, no one is running any compagne against ahlubayt. I think this is the 10th thread I read someone writting a comment along these lines. Get out of your bubbles, you are ALL muslims. The Prophet didnt wish for his Ummah to be like this!

    11. #11
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      ^ what is relationship between me and my stepmothers father ?

      and u need to go through thread again and see what was i responding to when i said whoz running compagne against ahlulbayt.
      Last edited by aqeel123; Dec 18th, 2010 at 05:45 PM.
      MARAY ALLAH MAREE IZZAT KAI LIYAY YEHI KAFI HAI KAI MAIN TAIRA BANDA HOON OOR MARAY FAKHAR KAI LIYAY YEHE KAFIHAI KAI TOU MAIRA PURWARDIGAAR. TOU WAISA HAIN JAISA MAIN CHAHTA HOO ..PUSS TOU MUJH KO WAISA BANA DAY JAISAY TOU CHAHTA HAI.

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      Quote Originally Posted by shardmanny View Post
      ^we all know you have a hard time dealing with it. some say it was forced on ali ra - ie umar ra was threatening him and ali ra decided it was safer to marry her to him, others say it never happend and the last group say it was abu bakr ra's daughter after ali ra married asma ra

      shia scholars:

      Hameed bin Ziad from Ibn Sama’ah, from Muhamad bin Ziad from Abdullah bin Sinan and Muawiyah bin Ammar from Abu Abdullah PBUH: I asked him about the woman whose husband is died, Does she spend her iddat Period in her house or wherever she wants? Imam replied: Wherever She wants, For Ali PBUH when Umar had died he came to his house and took umm Kalthoum to his house.
      Al Allamah Majlisi says: Muwathaq ( meaning “reliable” or Sahih but contradicts what they believe) 21/197.
      Al Allamah Bahbudi Says: SAHIH, 3/121.
      2nd narration:
      - مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى وَ غَيْرُهُ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عِيسَى عَنِ الْحُسَيْنِ بْنِ سَعِيدٍ عَنِ النَّضْرِ بْنِ سُوَيْدٍ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ عَنْ سُلَيْمَانَ بْنِ خَالِدٍ قَالَ سَأَلْتُ أَبَا عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ( عليه السلام ) عَنِ امْرَأَةٍ تُوُفِّيَ زَوْجُهَا أَيْنَ تَعْتَدُّ فِي بَيْتِ زَوْجِهَا تَعْتَدُّ أَوْ حَيْثُ شَاءَتْ قَالَ بَلَى حَيْثُ شَاءَتْ ثُمَّ قَالَ إِنَّ عَلِيّاً (عليه السلام ) لَمَّا مَاتَ عُمَرُ أَتَى أُمَّ كُلْثُومٍ فَأَخَذَ بِيَدِهَا فَانْطَلَقَ بِهَا إِلَى بَيْتِهِ.
      يقول المجلسي صحيح21/199
      البهبودي صحيح3/122)
      Muhammad bin Yahya and others from ahmad bin muhammad bin Isa from Al Hussein Bin Sa’eed from Al Nadir bin Suwayd from hisham bin muslim from suleiman bin Khaled that he said: I asked Abu abdullah PBUH about a woman whose husband had died does she spend her Iddat period in the home of her husband or wherever she pleases? Imam Replied: Yes wherever She wants then he said Because Ali PBUH after umar had died he came and took umm Kalthoum back to his house.
      Al Allamah al Majlisi says: SAHIH 21/199
      Al Allamah al Bahbudi says: SAHIH 3/122.
      Refer: http://gadir.free.fr/Ar/Ehlibeyt/kut...l_Ukul/021.htm
      Now Two Fatwas by two shia alims: one By Sistani and another By Al Khoe’i :
      By Al khoe’i:
      السؤال:
      هل صحيح أن الخليفة الثاني قد تزوج من بنت الامام علي عليه السلام ؟
      الفتوى:
      هكذا ورد في التاريخ والروايات .
      Question :
      Is it true that the second Khalif married the daughter of Imam Ali aleyhi salam ?
      Answer :
      It’s reported like that in history and narrations


      how many of ali ra's children were named umar?
      thanks for the source, but could u make it a little more confusing coz first ur source is in arabic and its not my first second or third language.

      second you have posted two narrations and two fatwa's however only one link... I tried tranlsting that page and searched for word "ALI" couldnt find anything related to ur post.

      ---------------

      Oh so u searched online and pasted http://islamistruth.wordpress.com/20...bin-khattabra/


      next time u provide a source... Please mention name of book... author chapter and page. Not search it and copy paste the first result u get.
      Last edited by aqeel123; Dec 18th, 2010 at 05:44 PM.
      MARAY ALLAH MAREE IZZAT KAI LIYAY YEHI KAFI HAI KAI MAIN TAIRA BANDA HOON OOR MARAY FAKHAR KAI LIYAY YEHE KAFIHAI KAI TOU MAIRA PURWARDIGAAR. TOU WAISA HAIN JAISA MAIN CHAHTA HOO ..PUSS TOU MUJH KO WAISA BANA DAY JAISAY TOU CHAHTA HAI.

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      how many of ali ra's children were named umar?

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      Quote Originally Posted by shardmanny View Post
      how many of ali ra's children were named umar?
      So what? They were common names back then. Our Imams (as) were not petty beings. There were a bunch of Shias then named Muawiyah, Uthmaan, etc.

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      Quote Originally Posted by aqeel123 View Post
      1. Hafsa was wife of Prophet s.a.w hence mother of Bibi Fatima s.a ?
      2. If so Umar was grandfather of Bibi Fatima s.a ?
      3. Daughter of ALI a.s was daughter of Bibi Fatima s.a and Bibi Fatima was grand daughter of Umar ?
      4. Umar married his great grand daughter ?
      If all of above r true then is marrying ur grand daughter or great grand daughter allowed in islam ?
      What sort of logic is that???? It really makes no sense at all.

      Using same flawed logic of yours one can say the following:

      1)Hz. Ali (ra) is cousin brother of the Prophet (saw) and the Prophet (saw) paired Hz. Ali (ra) as his own brother in Madinah.
      2)So technically, Hz. Ali (ra) is uncle of Hz. Fatimah (ra). You have to agree to this.
      3)Now applying your flawed logic – Did Hz. Fatimah (ra) marry her own Uncle????

      Your flawed logic only showed your desperation and insecurity against the facts to prove them wrong by any means.


      Quote Originally Posted by Jafri View Post
      Hey, if it's written down, must be sahih Asad al Ghaybah Volume 5 page 367:

      "Abu Umar narrates on the authority of Zubayr Bakri, 'Umar asked for the hand of Ali's daughter, who replied that she was too young. 'Umar asked twice more. 'Ali said 'I shall send the girl to you, if you like her than say 'I accept''. 'Ali then sent the girl with a cloth and told her to say [to 'Umar] 'This is the scarf that I was talking about'. She conveyed these words to 'Umar, who said 'Tell your father that I accept'. Umar then touched the girl's calf. She exclaimed 'You have done this to me? If it hadn't been for the fact that you are Khalifa of the Muslims I would have broken your nose'. The girl went home and repeated the episode to her father, stating 'You sent me to a foul man', with that 'Ali said 'He is your husband'."
      By quoting the above hadith from Shia sources (Asad al Ghaybah) you have inadvertently and carelessly insulted Hz. Ali (ra) – Shame on you!!!

      Do you think that Hz. Ali (ra) will send his daughter (mind you this daughter was from Hz. Fatimah (ra)) to Hz Umar (ra) in such a manner!!!! This is a real insult to Hz. Ali (ra).

      And this Shia hadith which you deem to be Sahih Clearly has Hz. Ali (ra) acknowledging that Hz. Umar (ra) is the husband of his beloved daughter Umm Kulthum (ra)!!!

      The link below has dealt with this issue comprehensively with all the references form all the sources.

      "A Comprehensive Rebuttal of Answering-Ansar’s Article on Umm Kulthoom’s Nikah"

      http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/sahabah/rebuttal

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      Shia view reggarding the topic

      Imam Ja'far Sadiq (as) when he was asked about this alleged marriage directly:

      in Nasehkul Tawareekh Volume 3 page 408:

      "Umar bin Adheena asked Imam Ja'far Sadiq (as) 'People claim that 'Ali married his daughter to such a person'. The Imam, who was until then sitting down, stood up and said angrily, "Whoever holds such a viewpoint is misled." Subhanallah! Was Imam 'Ali unable to free his daughter from their clutches? He could have stood between them and her to protect, they have fabricated a lie".

      MARAY ALLAH MAREE IZZAT KAI LIYAY YEHI KAFI HAI KAI MAIN TAIRA BANDA HOON OOR MARAY FAKHAR KAI LIYAY YEHE KAFIHAI KAI TOU MAIRA PURWARDIGAAR. TOU WAISA HAIN JAISA MAIN CHAHTA HOO ..PUSS TOU MUJH KO WAISA BANA DAY JAISAY TOU CHAHTA HAI.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Ibn Sadique View Post
      What sort of logic is that???? It really makes no sense at all.

      Using same flawed logic of yours one can say the following:

      1)Hz. Ali (ra) is cousin brother of the Prophet (saw) and the Prophet (saw) paired Hz. Ali (ra) as his own brother in Madinah.
      2)So technically, Hz. Ali (ra) is uncle of Hz. Fatimah (ra). You have to agree to this.
      3)Now applying your flawed logic – Did Hz. Fatimah (ra) marry her own Uncle????

      Your flawed logic only showed your desperation and insecurity against the facts to prove them wrong by any means.




      By quoting the above hadith from Shia sources (Asad al Ghaybah) you have inadvertently and carelessly insulted Hz. Ali (ra) – Shame on you!!!

      Do you think that Hz. Ali (ra) will send his daughter (mind you this daughter was from Hz. Fatimah (ra)) to Hz Umar (ra) in such a manner!!!! This is a real insult to Hz. Ali (ra).

      And this Shia hadith which you deem to be Sahih Clearly has Hz. Ali (ra) acknowledging that Hz. Umar (ra) is the husband of his beloved daughter Umm Kulthum (ra)!!!

      The link below has dealt with this issue comprehensively with all the references form all the sources.

      "A Comprehensive Rebuttal of Answering-Ansar’s Article on Umm Kulthoom’s Nikah"

      http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/sahabah/rebuttal

      I only read the part which seemed like a reply to my post.

      I wouldn't mind giving my daughter to my cousin (son of my fathers brother) if he is arnd 30 yrs younger than me.
      provided: they r age compatible, both of them r happy. (i wouldnt say no just becoz the guy asking for rishta is my cousin)

      Would u mind marrying ur step grand daughters daughter ? or would u give ur daughter to ur wifes step mothers father ?
      MARAY ALLAH MAREE IZZAT KAI LIYAY YEHI KAFI HAI KAI MAIN TAIRA BANDA HOON OOR MARAY FAKHAR KAI LIYAY YEHE KAFIHAI KAI TOU MAIRA PURWARDIGAAR. TOU WAISA HAIN JAISA MAIN CHAHTA HOO ..PUSS TOU MUJH KO WAISA BANA DAY JAISAY TOU CHAHTA HAI.

    18. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ibn Sadique View Post
      By quoting the above hadith from Shia sources (Asad al Ghaybah) you have inadvertently and carelessly insulted Hz. Ali (ra) Shame on you!!!
      Rather shame should be on you that you have audacity to come out and call a prominent sunni book written on the lives of Sahaba by one of the esteemed Sunni Imams namely Ibn Atheer Jazri as a Shia sources. Here is a direct link from a Sunni website for the book:
      http://www.al-eman.com/Islamlib/viewtoc.asp?BID=400

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