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    Results 1 to 18 of 33
    1. #1
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      Salam u Alaikum guys,

      I am wondering for quite a few days about the leadership in the Umma. How are we supposed to select our leaders as it's not mentioned in the Quran?

      I also would like to know that is there a place for democracy in Islam? Also, what was the way Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H.) prescribed to choose our leasders and in that case, how was Hazrat Abu Bakar (RA) selected?

      I'll really appreciate everyone's insight and I'm looking keenly for the responses. Thanks

      Umer

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      Quote Originally Posted by Umer579
      Salam u Alaikum guys,

      I am wondering for quite a few days about the leadership in the Umma. How are we supposed to select our leaders as it's not mentioned in the Quran?

      I also would like to know that is there a place for democracy in Islam? Also, what was the way Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H.) prescribed to choose our leasders and in that case, how was Hazrat Abu Bakar (RA) selected?

      I'll really appreciate everyone's insight and I'm looking keenly for the responses. Thanks

      Umer

      My dear brother, if read Holy Quran, Allah is the one who select Guide and master for Muslim Umma, from 124000/- Est Prophets are directly selected by Almight Allah, there is not even a single evidence where prophet or his vizier is select during election or common sensus of poeple.. Therefore please check the thread of BASIC CONFLICT ..... for further information..
      ALLAH HAFIZ

    3. #3
      The unReal king
      Bu Abdullah

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      definitely 'democracy' is not the way....
      Both Halal & Haram r evident but between them r doubtful things, most ppl have no knowledge about them. So whoever saves himself from suspicious things saves his religion & honor, & whoever indulges in suspicious things indulges in Haram.

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      okay so what is the way then?
      lottery?
      The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

    5. #5
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      LOL @ lottery.. haha
      I think what he meant was the 'Current' way of democracy...
      During the time of Caliphates, they did have democracy via the 'Shura' System. In such democracy, you just dun take every aira ghaira nathu khaira to decide for a thief will always elect a thief...

      Anyone who is eligible to be a witness in the court of law is a reliable person to take the advice on such...

    6. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by armughal
      definitely 'democracy' is not the way....
      For selecting leaders, there is no problem with democratic processes...as for passing laws...that's a different mattter.

    7. #7
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      mAd_ScIeNtIsT's Avatar
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      Maududi wrote a pretty good article on this, but I don't have the time to type it, but the gist of it is that Khilafat rests on the shoulder of every adult muslim male and female and that they choose to invest one man with their power, ie choose a khalif through election.

      Maududi theorised about Islamic democracy, where people elect their rulers for the purpose of ruling by Islam, interpreting and applying its laws. It differs from western democracy because the an Islamic democracy is not allow to pass legislation that contradicts Islam.
      Muslims are so good at dividing that they can divide the atom. If you see two Muslims, probably they belong to 3 parties.
      Al-Ghazali

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      maddie, sure, so the only difference between democracy and khilafat is that in a khliafat system the elected representatives can not passs legislation counter to religious rulings.

      while this presents a little bit of challenge because teh religious rulings on many things may be disputed due to sect or school of thought.

      But for the most part it will not have a huge impact on the minutia like healthcare spending, agricultural development, etc etc.

      so when people go around screaming that democracy is unislamic, that is incorrect. People still have a right to choose the representatives, and those people have to work in the interest of the people, and have limits based on religious rulings, similar to limits that are placed based on constitution in democracies (yes I understand that constitution can be changed but I am kinda using this to illustrate a point)

      the biggest challenge that I see is how you can figure out one set of these untouchable laws when diff schools of thought do not agree on some of them. does one go with the school of thought that the majority follows then? and in such a case an islamic-democracy/khilafah would be different in pakistan than in Iran than in Saudi Arabia right ( yes I know the one khilafah concept, but since that is not on the hoirizon it will have to be at a country level)

      makes sense?
      The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by Fraudz
      maddie, sure, so the only difference between democracy and khilafat is that in a khliafat system the elected representatives can not passs legislation counter to religious rulings.

      while this presents a little bit of challenge because teh religious rulings on many things may be disputed due to sect or school of thought.

      But for the most part it will not have a huge impact on the minutia like healthcare spending, agricultural development, etc etc.
      Which is pretty much why Maududi's own party, the JI, has always stuck by Pakistan's 1973 constitution (bar their sell-out to Zia). The JI's position is that the 1973 constitution is a valid basis for an Islamic government, but that successive governments have ignored the Islamic provisions in the constitution.
      Muslims are so good at dividing that they can divide the atom. If you see two Muslims, probably they belong to 3 parties.
      Al-Ghazali

    10. #10
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      I think its a pretty good way to initiate a discussion. Though this simplistic explanation, while it works for Jamaa't-e-Islami and the limited context of a politcal party in one country (i.e. Pakistan), does not really explain that in Islam, the institution of Khalifat is unique because the Khalifa is not only the Administrative head of government but also the spiritual guide to the Islamic Ummah. At least that is what we see as example from the first four Khullafa. So, by definition, the Masjid and the state are closely bonded in Islam.

      Now, whether in the present day and age, we (the ummah) has the ability or the patience to select/elect/shura someone who can fit the bill completely remains a big question mark.
      "Let your friends underestimate your virtues. Let your enemies overestimate your faults." - Godfather.

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      Quote Originally Posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT
      Which is pretty much why Maududi's own party, the JI, has always stuck by Pakistan's 1973 constitution (bar their sell-out to Zia). The JI's position is that the 1973 constitution is a valid basis for an Islamic government, but that successive governments have ignored the Islamic provisions in the constitution.
      they can do us all a service by countering the views of their brethren who claim that democracy is unislamic, I mean afterall if they will speak up against others why not against groups like HT, or did they and I just missed it?
      The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

    12. #12
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      Fraudia, can we please have your definition of democracy first before we start declaring whats islamic and whats not?
      "The Baptism of God, and who can Baptize better than God?" (2:138)

    13. #13
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      Mr Fraudia's Avatar
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      of the people, for the people, by the people

      (not off the people, Far the people, Buy the people )
      The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

    14. #14
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      ^ Iam assuming what you said is "Rule of the people.....

      Now, can you please explain how can democracy be Islamic, when Allah says...

      The judgement is for Allah alone
      Surah Al Anaam Verse 57
      "The Baptism of God, and who can Baptize better than God?" (2:138)

    15. #15
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      Mr Fraudia's Avatar
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      nope that is not what I said, I said...

      of the people- i.e. picked from within the masses and not some special class of people

      for the people- responsibility to deliver to people

      by the people- leaders are slected by the masses

      Explain how that is in conflict with the Surah you posted.
      The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

    16. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT
      Maududi wrote a pretty good article on this, but I don't have the time to type it, but the gist of it is that Khilafat rests on the shoulder of every adult muslim male and female and that they choose to invest one man with their power, ie choose a khalif through election.

      Maududi theorised about Islamic democracy, where people elect their rulers for the purpose of ruling by Islam, interpreting and applying its laws. It differs from western democracy because the an Islamic democracy is not allow to pass legislation that contradicts Islam.
      Nice thread Umer ....

      Democracy is absolutely compatible with Islam. However as stated, legislation is different. Even in western democracy their legislation cannot violate the constitution or certain bills or charters. So everyone in their democratic system abides by some rules and regulations, which they make immutable. For Islamic countries with a democracy the answer is simple Quran and Hadith should not be violated during legislation.

    17. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sharaabi
      ^ Iam assuming what you said is "Rule of the people.....

      Now, can you please explain how can democracy be Islamic, when Allah says...

      The judgement is for Allah alone
      Surah Al Anaam Verse 57
      Allah will choose our leaders? Within the context of choosing leaders, I think what is democratic is crystal clear - the people decide amongst themselves who will lead; leadership is not a function of hereditary right, or tribal right, etc.

      People implement systems, so in ALL cases, it is really the rule of the people...let's not get into semantic games over this...

      The question is, can people arbitrarily change laws regardless of a set of core principles that can't be violated...I don't know of a single system of governance that can claim that.

    18. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by picoico
      Allah will choose our leaders? Within the context of choosing leaders, I think what is democratic is crystal clear - the people decide amongst themselves who will lead; leadership is not a function of hereditary right, or tribal right, etc.

      People implement systems, so in ALL cases, it is really the rule of the people...let's not get into semantic games over this...

      The question is, can people arbitrarily change laws regardless of a set of core principles that can't be violated...I don't know of a single system of governance that can claim that.
      Right, exactly what I said also. I always see Mullahs screaming evil when they hear about democracy because they don't understand the concept of processes and principles.

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