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  • Page 8 of 13 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast
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    1. #127
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      You method of praying salat in your hadiths and sunnah has constant recitations of the QUran. In case you forgot, Muhammad was the last prophet and it was the Quran he was given. Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Joseph, Zacariah, etc. DID NOT HAVE THE QURAN!! So tell me....what Sura's was Jesus reciting in his Salat prayer? What about Abraham?

      In addition, the Third revelation (sura 73), verse 20 says to 'observe the contact prayers, and zakat. However, Sura Fateha was the 5th revelation, majority of the Suras being recited according to your weblink were later revelations? Therefore, it is CHRONOLOGICALLY impossible for the salat to have been performed according to your hadiths & Sunnah.

      Although, I'm sure you will have a counter argument for this. Although, I do not know how you can counter chronology. Abraham, Jesus, Moses etc. simply did not have the Quran to recite in their salat prayer.
      Other Prophets were given revelations which they recieted that was as good as Quran IN THEIR TIMES, after few yrs they became corrupted and were no longer valid for use in prayers.
      When ISlam first came many of the former muslims were hanifs or followers of a monotheistic faith similar to abrahamic faith, they performed their prayers according to the traditions passed on to them.Yes it was not Quran thet they recieted but that logic cant be used now as at that time the FINAL REVELATION was not sent down, faith was NOT COMPLETED.
      Similarly early muslims drank wine , many warriors of Badr drank to their victory afterwards as wine was not prohibited at that time.
      Early muslims practiced Mutah or temporary mariage as it was not forbidden yet
      and the prayed to jerusalam instead of Makkah

      so now should we all turn back to those times ? No muslim can justify doing all these things as they were back in those days of early islam as the faith was not completed.
      Last edited by Das Reich; Jul 20th, 2009 at 09:13 AM.

    2. #128
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      You method of praying salat in your hadiths and sunnah has constant recitations of the QUran. In case you forgot, Muhammad was the last prophet and it was the Quran he was given. Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Joseph, Zacariah, etc. DID NOT HAVE THE QURAN!! So tell me....what Sura's was Jesus reciting in his Salat prayer? What about Abraham?
      can u plz post how YOU pray

      and give me EVIDENCE why you do that and your source for that

    3. #129
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      Quote Originally Posted by apple2005 View Post
      You are not answering my questions. Rather you are going to divert the talk to some other side. Why don't you accept frankly that you have no answer.....

      I am repeating again:

      How to pray according to quran????because in Quran it is given several times: WA AQIMUSSALATHA WA ATUZZAKATHA, WARKAOO MAΑRRAKEΛN.
      Why is it that you never hear a Christian ever asking the question "how do we pray"? How do hundreds of millions pray? Why is it that you think there should be a reason how to pray? Just pray man, get over it. Or pray like Sunnis do. Its similar to how Jews pray anyways:


    4. #130
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      My question will eventually lead to your answer......... Don't tell me what and how Jews are praying? I am asking you what Quran says how to pray???? Because Quran says and urge strongly to pray but how???????????

    5. #131
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      Quote Originally Posted by apple2005 View Post
      My question will eventually lead to your answer......... Don't tell me what and how Jews are praying? I am asking you what Quran says how to pray???? Because Quran says and urge strongly to pray but how???????????
      The Quran says to be respectful for your parents. How do you that? It also says to leave a will. How do you that? It also says to praise God and fear him. How do you that. It says to spend on the poor and on freeing the slaves and on the relatives. How do you that? The Quran says we must ask for forgiveness. How do we do that? The Quran says we must fulfill our obligations. How do we do that? The Quran says we should recite the Quran. How do we do that? It says we can eat food. How do we do that? It says we can even drink water and milk. How do we that? In fact it says we can also sleep. How do we do that? It says we should think of of God and His creation of the universe. How do we do that?

      You ask strange questions. All you want to say is we can not know "how to pray" from the Quran therefore the Quran is insufficient.

      Then tell me this. Where in the Quran it says we need to know how to pray?

    6. #132
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      Quote Originally Posted by Bigmo View Post

      Then tell me this. Where in the Quran it says we need to know how to pray?
      Very illogical questions put by you....... When Quran stresses on many places that PRAY AND GIVE ZAKAT, then how you are telling that it doesn't say we don't need to know how to pray?

      AlhamduLillah I strongly believe in Quran. I don't think that is insufficient. My point is to understand Quran, we need Hadees and Sunna. Without that you will not understand Quran and fulfil Quranic commandments.

      WAATIULLAH WA ATIURRASUL. Why Allah didn't say AtiuLLah only. Why and Rasool? Because Rasool words are also the supplements of Quran. He never said anything contrary to Quran.

    7. #133
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      Quote Originally Posted by Das Reich View Post
      Other Prophets were given revelations which they recieted that was as good as Quran IN THEIR TIMES, after few yrs they became corrupted and were no longer valid for use in prayers.
      When ISlam first came many of the former muslims were hanifs or followers of a monotheistic faith similar to abrahamic faith, they performed their prayers according to the traditions passed on to them.Yes it was not Quran thet they recieted but that logic cant be used now as at that time the FINAL REVELATION was not sent down, faith was NOT COMPLETED.
      Similarly early muslims drank wine , many warriors of Badr drank to their victory afterwards as wine was not prohibited at that time.
      Early muslims practiced Mutah or temporary mariage as it was not forbidden yet
      and the prayed to jerusalam instead of Makkah

      so now should we all turn back to those times ? No muslim can justify doing all these things as they were back in those days of early islam as the faith was not completed.
      What a cop out! You know full well from Quran that all religious duties came via Abraham and all messengers confirm previous messengers. Muhammad was enjoined to follow the religion of Abraham. Thus, perform salat the way Abraham did (Jesus, Moses etc.). <edit>

      I guess you think GOD is lying in the Quran, and prefer the words of men over GOD's.

      peace
      submitmj
      Last edited by teggy; Jul 20th, 2009 at 05:01 PM. Reason: refrain from insulting others' beliefs

    8. #134
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      Moderator's Warning:
      Please discuss the matters without making allegation or remarks that maybe seen as inflammatory or hurtful of others' beliefs. Any posts containing such material will be removed, and user issued infraction. Thank you.
      "In my heart are my Garden and Paradise, wherever I travel, they go with me, and they never leave me." Ibn Taimiyyah

    9. #135
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      Quote Originally Posted by submitmj View Post
      What a cop out! You know full well from Quran that all religious duties came via Abraham and all messengers confirm previous messengers. Muhammad was enjoined to follow the religion of Abraham. Thus, perform salat the way Abraham did (Jesus, Moses etc.). <edit>

      I guess you think GOD is lying in the Quran, and prefer the words of men over GOD's.

      peace
      submitmj
      I dont know how abraham performed salah show me , thats exactly what i am asking you

    10. #136
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      Quote Originally Posted by Das Reich View Post
      I dont know how abraham performed salah show me , thats exactly what i am asking you
      Well, the only way you will accept which is the correct way of performing salat, zakat, hajj, fasting is if you sincerely want to know the truth and believe GOD. You need to verify the math miracle of the QUran and accept GOD's assertions in Quran 74:31 that '19' will confirm the Quran is of Divine origin which is why it is called 'One of the great miracles (Quran 74:35). The moment you realize the truth that the math miracle is true and 'confirms' the Quran and, by default, all previous scriptures (as they are mentioned in Quran), you will accept that whomever is blessed with 'confirming' the Quran is the messenger GOD speaks of in 3:81 that will purify the religion of Islam. Remember, the people of the scripture did not dispute until AFTER THE PROOF of the Quran came to them (Quran 98:1-4).

      Last edited by submitmj; Jul 20th, 2009 at 07:55 PM.

    11. #137
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      Quote Originally Posted by apple2005 View Post
      Very illogical questions put by you....... When Quran stresses on many places that PRAY AND GIVE ZAKAT, then how you are telling that it doesn't say we don't need to know how to pray?

      AlhamduLillah I strongly believe in Quran. I don't think that is insufficient. My point is to understand Quran, we need Hadees and Sunna. Without that you will not understand Quran and fulfil Quranic commandments.

      WAATIULLAH WA ATIURRASUL. Why Allah didn't say AtiuLLah only. Why and Rasool? Because Rasool words are also the supplements of Quran. He never said anything contrary to Quran.
      I want to know this.

      Why would someone like me need to know "how to pray"? What makes you think when the Quran says to kneel and bow and prostrate that the person would still not know how to pray?

      The problem is that those of us who come from a Sunni or Shia background we are so used to a ritualistic and codified form of prayer that we really do believe how many raka's, and how we hold our hand, and how we move our body movements is the only way to pray. Its embeded in our minds. and we can not imagine any other way of praying. Many Muslims do not even pay attention when they pray because its routine for them. They say the same things over and over again. Many of them learn and practice this even before they reach puberty. WE then start to believe thats the only way to pray and there is no other way to pray. We ASSUME that we need to pray at certain times, in a specific set of way and then we assume thats the only way to pray.

      Tell me what makes you think that unless you raise your hands and do takbeer, and then recite the faitiha and then at least three verses and then bow and say three times subhana Allah, and then raise your head again and then go to sujood and say 3 times subhana Allah and then lift your head, and then do sujood again and then say subhana Allah 3 times and then go up again and repeat the process but next time after sujood you must make tashahud to Abraham and the prophet of the Quran then you can never have your prayer accepted and you can never have any spiritual connection with God?

      Why should God care about thats its two raka'a in the morning, 4 in the noon, 4 in the asr and 3 in the maghrib and 4 in the evening? Tell me why should it be like this when the sects themselves say the prophet and his followers prayed twice a day in Mecca? Did God accept their prayers then or not? Tell me when you around in the Ka'aba 7 times, does God accepts that or not? Tell me when you go to a funeral and your pray standing up and you don't do sujood or even bow, does God accept that? When you throw some rocks at some stone statue in haj, does God accept that? When you go back and forth from one place and another 7 times, does God accept that?

      What makes you think there is a way to pray and why did not God tell us in the Quran that there is a way to pray and its the only way to pray?

      Tell me why does someone like me need to know how to pray? If I left the Quran with someone in an isolated Island and the Quran is all he knows, do you think he would ask us after 10 years I couldn't pray because nobody showed me how to pray?

      What makes you think that how the sects pray is the only acceptable way to pray?

      Or let me ask it another way:

      Where do you think the sects got their way to pray from? The 5 daily prayers, the rika'as for every prayer and their timings during the day and when to say it silent and when to say it out loud. Where do you think they got this notion from?

    12. #138
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      If I left the Quran with someone in an isolated Island and the Quran is all he knows, do you think he would ask us after 10 years I couldn't pray because nobody showed me how to pray?
      thats the whole point, God did not send the QUran alone otherwise it was not above him to have the Quran miraculiously appear in Kabba ( which was the holy house of pagan arabs)
      Quran needed to be uttered through the tongue of an unlettered arab i.e Muhammad and reinflorced through his example

    13. #139
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      The moment you realize the truth that the math miracle is true and 'confirms' the Quran and, by default, all previous scriptures (as they are mentioned in Quran),
      so now we need to know math to confirm Quran , how many bedouins knew it who were converted by Prophet ?

      all previous scriptures ? i thought our belief is that they are corrupted

    14. #140
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      The problem is that those of us who come from a Sunni or Shia background we are so used to a ritualistic and codified form of prayer that we really do believe how many raka's, and how we hold our hand, and how we move our body movements is the only way to pray. Its embeded in our minds. and we can not imagine any other way of praying. Many Muslims do not even pay attention when they pray because its routine for them. They say the same things over and over again. Many of them learn and practice this even before they reach puberty. WE then start to believe thats the only way to pray and there is no other way to pray. We ASSUME that we need to pray at certain times, in a specific set of way and then we assume thats the only way to pray.
      so what is your counter argument ?

      that there is no need to pray in any specific way ?

      Did the Prophet Muhammad do that ? or is his example meaningless
      What is your PRECEDENT for your approach ? which muslim has said before you that we dont need any specific way or time to pray

    15. #141
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      Quote Originally Posted by Das Reich View Post
      thats the whole point, God did not send the QUran alone otherwise it was not above him to have the Quran miraculiously appear in Kabba ( which was the holy house of pagan arabs)
      Quran needed to be uttered through the tongue of an unlettered arab i.e Muhammad and reinflorced through his example
      You did not answer my question. Where do you think these sects got their way of praying from? And why should this be the only way to pray?

      Why don't we hear any Christians asking how do we pray? How do Christians pray?


      3.113-115. Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous. Of the good that they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for Allah knoweth well those that do right

      How do these people prostrate? Do they do it like the Muslim sects do?


      22.34 To every people did We appoint rites (of sacrifice), that they might celebrate the name of Allah over the sustenance He gave them from animals (fit for food). But your Allah is One Allah. submit then your wills to Him (in Islam): and give thou the good news to those who humble themselves,-

      22.18 Seest thou not that to Allah bow down in worship all things that are in the heavens and on earth,- the sun, the moon, the stars; the hills, the trees, the animals; and a great number among mankind? But a great number are (also) such as are fit for Punishment: and such as Allah shall disgrace,- None can raise to honour: for Allah carries out all that He wills.

      22.26 Behold! We gave the site, to Abraham, of the (Sacred) House, (saying): "Associate not anything (in worship) with Me; and sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or stand up, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).

      22.37 It is not their meat nor their blood, that reaches Allah. it is your piety that reaches Him: He has thus made them subject to you, that ye may glorify Allah for His Guidance to you and proclaim the good news to all who do right.

      22.40 (They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- (for no cause) except that they say, "our Lord is Allah.. Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will).

      Don't limit God! He is everyone's God and not just the sects. This is the problem with sectarianism, each has become an exclusive tribe. God is for everyone.

    16. #142
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      You did not answer my question. Where do you think these sects got their way of praying from? And why should this be the only way to pray?
      they got it from hadith , all fiqahs base their prayer methods on hadith and there is a huge overlap even between sunni fiqahs and jafari fiqah
      they have their sources good or bad authentic or not that is another debate

      where can we find your way of praying thats the question ?



      Why don't we hear any Christians asking how do we pray? How do Christians pray?
      thats their problem they didnt preserve the seerah of their Prophets and corrupted the texts thats why Quran was sent down with Muhammad to remove the inovations and straighten the deen again

    17. #143
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      Quote Originally Posted by Das Reich View Post
      they got it from hadith , all fiqahs base their prayer methods on hadith and there is a huge overlap even between sunni fiqahs and jafari fiqah
      they have their sources good or bad authentic or not that is another debate

      where can we find your way of praying thats the question ?



      thats their problem they didnt preserve the seerah of their Prophets and corrupted the texts thats why Quran was sent down with Muhammad to remove the inovations and straighten the deen again
      3.113-115. Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous. Of the good that they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for Allah knoweth well those that do right

      How do these people prostrate? Do they do it like the Muslim sects do?


      22.34 To every people did We appoint rites (of sacrifice), that they might celebrate the name of Allah over the sustenance He gave them from animals (fit for food). But your Allah is One Allah. submit then your wills to Him (in Islam): and give thou the good news to those who humble themselves,-

      22.18 Seest thou not that to Allah bow down in worship all things that are in the heavens and on earth,- the sun, the moon, the stars; the hills, the trees, the animals; and a great number among mankind? But a great number are (also) such as are fit for Punishment: and such as Allah shall disgrace,- None can raise to honour: for Allah carries out all that He wills.

      22.26 Behold! We gave the site, to Abraham, of the (Sacred) House, (saying): "Associate not anything (in worship) with Me; and sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or stand up, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).

      22.37 It is not their meat nor their blood, that reaches Allah. it is your piety that reaches Him: He has thus made them subject to you, that ye may glorify Allah for His Guidance to you and proclaim the good news to all who do right.

      22.40 (They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- (for no cause) except that they say, "our Lord is Allah.. Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will).

      So whats this? Who is this talking about then?


      5.46. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.

      5.48 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel

      Which scriptures is this talking about then?

    18. #144
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      Quote Originally Posted by Das Reich View Post
      so now we need to know math to confirm Quran , how many bedouins knew it who were converted by Prophet ?

      all previous scriptures ? i thought our belief is that they are corrupted
      Well, I am not the one telling you that you need another miracle to believe in GOD's revelations, GOD is telling you that you need it. If GOD says '19' is going to confirm the Quran, than it is going to confirm the Quran. If you think you don't need it, than you are actually saying you know better than GOD. Naturally, we know that you do not.

      [74:30] Over it is nineteen.*
      [74:31] We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (19)
      (1) to disturb the disbelievers,
      (2) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture),
      (3) to strengthen the faith of the faithful,
      (4) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers,
      and (5) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did GOD mean by this allegory?" GOD thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.
      [74:32] Absolutely, (I swear) by the moon.
      [74:33] And the night as it passes.
      [74:34] And the morning as it shines.
      [74:35] This is one of the great miracles.
      [74:36] A warning to the human race.
      [74:37] For those among you who wish to advance, or regress.

      Since GOD states 'We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (19)' is an ALLEGORY. Immediately, we know that '19' is not referring to number of angels guarding hell.

      The math miracle of '19' really is a big test for those who claim they are believers. If they are believers, they will believe GOD and accept HIS glorious proofs. If a person is a hypocrite or disbeliever in GOD's revelations they will NOT accept it and focus on the allegory in the verse and think it means something other than the math miracle. Like I stated earlier, GOD did say it was an allegory. Thus, the meaning is different than the literal context.

      So again. I am not saying you need a math miracle to purge your old corrupted traditions, GOD is saying you need it. Otherwise, he would not have given the world such a HUGE blessing and miracle to guide the human race to the pristine original uncorrupted Islam. The way Muhammad practiced it.

      The decision is yours to make. Here is the evidence. It is your Quranic duty to verify all information......

      Proof Of GOD - Proof Of The Truth

      Peace
      submitmj

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