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  • Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
    Results 1 to 18 of 63
    1. #1

      Join Date
      Jun 1, 2001
      Salamm how you people doing....

      could some one tell me who is agha khan? where did he come from? why is he what he is? why do soo many people worship him ? Is he considerd a prophet to those who follow him?
      I need the correct info please!!


      Till next time***Keep_It_Simple_Stupid***©

    2. #2

      Join Date
      Mar 25, 2000
      Originally posted by Jaawan:
      Salamm how you people doing....

      could some one tell me who is agha khan? where did he come from? why is he what he is? why do soo many people worship him ? Is he considerd a prophet to those who follow him?
      I need the correct info please!!


      Salaam Jaawan

      I think I can provide a plethroa of facts on the subject matter and so does the *Irrefragable*. Most of the posters on this forum are alien to intelligent discussion/debate. So posting would be one sided and quite lengthy. If you like I can email you the info.

      You can contact me at bubble-buster@mailcity.com or
      Irrefragable at cartoos@hotmail.com

      Bubble Buster
      "The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion."

    3. #3

      Join Date
      Jun 1, 2001
      NO please post or just give us the web site or something here so we all can learn about the topic...this is not a debate about agha khan or agha khani people just need some information please


      Till next time***Keep_It_Simple_Stupid***©

    4. #4
      Paki Pimpsta

      Join Date
      Dec 10, 1999
      Jinnah was Aga Khani

    5. #5

      Join Date
      Feb 28, 2000
      2Pak I know that Jinnah was from Memon community, not sure if he was AghaKhani.

    6. #6

      Mr. T's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 31, 1969
      Jinnah was Agha Khani
      Liaquat Ali khan was Shia
      Sardar Abdul Rab Nishtar was Barelvi

      And the point is...????
      The prince who is otherwise known as TLK

    7. #7

      Join Date
      Feb 28, 2000
      and Tariq,
      Chaudhry Muhammad Zafarullah Khan,
      the first foreign Minister Pakistan, who for many years represented Paksitan in the General Assembly of United Nation, was a Qadiani.

      Since then he has served as Judge and President of International Court of Justice at the Hague.

      As for Qaid-e-Azam he was for sure a Memon and a Muslim, thats for he fighted, that the two ideologies must be seperated from each other.

    8. #8

      Join Date
      Jun 1, 2001
      I want information!!! let me spell that for you...I-N-F-O-R-M-A-T-I-O-N...GET IT?
      Who cares if those people were what...will it have any effect on you in any means? i dont think so stop wasting your and my time and give me the info in you know it!!! please!


      Till next time***Keep_It_Simple_Stupid***©

    9. #9
      Junior Member

      Join Date
      Dec 26, 1999
      H.H. The Aga Khan and Ismailis:

      Aga Khan is the 49th Imam and the spiritual leader of the Shia Ismailis. The beloved prophet (pbuh), in his late years, gathered his followers in a place called “Ghader-e-Khum” and loudly announced:
      "in kuntum mawla-ho fa-haza Ali-ul Mawla".
      H.H. the Aga Khan is the present ‘mowla’ as instructed by the Prophet (pbuh&hf), descendant directly from the Prophet Mohammad and Imam Ali (pbut&tf).

      Achievements of the Fatimid Caliphate dominate accounts of the early period of Ismaili history, roughly from the beginnings of Islam through the 11th century. Named after the Prophet's daughter Fatima, the Fatimid dynasty created a state that stimulated the development of art, science, and trade in the Mediterranean Near East over two centuries. Its centre was Cairo, founded by the Fatimids as their capital.

      Following the Fatimid period, the Ismaili Muslims' geographical centre shifted from Egypt to Syria and Persia. After their centre in Persia, Alamut, fell to Mongol conquerors in the 13th century, Ismailis lived for several centuries in dispersed communities, mainly in Persia and Central Asia but also in Syria, India and elsewhere.

      In the 1830s, Aga Hassanaly Shah, the 46th Ismaili Imam, was granted the honorary hereditary title of the Aga Khan by the Shah of Persia. In 1843, the first Aga Khan left Persia for India, which already had a large Ismaili community. Aga Khan II died in 1885, only four years after assuming the Imamat. He was succeeded by the present Aga Khan's grandfather, and predecessor as Imam, Sir Sultan Mahomed Shah Aga Khan.

      p.s. any mistakes or omissions are not intentional and is regretted.

    10. #10
      Senior Member

      Join Date
      Jan 20, 2000
      so who is the guy who kinda looks like Pierre Trudeau (the former Canadian Prime Minister) whose picture is always hung up in Ismaieli(sp) shops? What is his significance? Is he their newest prophet or leader? Just wondering..

    11. #11

      Join Date
      Mar 25, 2000



      Every Ismaili (man or woman) had but to FACE the Photo of his/her Beloved Spiritual Father and Mother -- Karim Aga Khan, while reciting the three Daily Prayers.
      Today, there are only two small photographs on the two side walls. Hence, an Ismaili will tell you with a firm voice and absolute confidence:
      "It is a LIE. We DO NOT FACE the photos of Aga Khan, while we recite our Du'a (Ismaili Prayer) in Jamatkhanas."
      BUT... he/she will not tell you to whom they DO FACE...

      HOLY DU'A ~

      The "BATINI" & "ZAHERI" Muslims...
      The Agakhani Ismailis do not recite the obligatory ritual Islamic Prayer (Arabic; Salaah - Persian; Namaz ), five times a day. In lieu thereof, Ismailis recite in their Jamatkhanas a ritual prayer called "Holy Du'a", three times a day. Ismaili Jamatkhanas are closed during the noon hours, even on the Fridays. One does not hear the sound of universally recognized Islamic call to prayer (Adhan), emerging out of a Jamatkhana. The obligatory Islamic ritual of performing an ablution (Wadhu), before reciting a ritual prayer, is not a prerequisite for the Agakhani Ismailis. They consider themselves Momeenins or the Batini (esoteric) Muslims, who are absolved of the rituals of physical cleaning, as well as of physical fasting. The followers of Aga Khan firmly believe, they are a step above the rest of the Ummah (the Brotherhood of Muslims), who are regarded by them as the Shariyatis or the Zaheri (exoteric) Muslims. For a Shariyati Muslim, the physical rituals are of primary significance and of greater consequences than the inner most spiritual ones. Ismailis are advised by their elders to hide their inner practices and secret beliefs. Hence, ISMAILI Muslims are not allowed to enter their prayer halls. Ismailis are also told not to discuss their faith with other fellow Muslims. The reason being; the rest of the Ummah is not yet matured enough or ready to comprehend or digest their philosophy of Marifat (the highest level of spiritual understanding). The leaders are apprehensive that their Batini Ismaili community may be unjustly labeled as "the apostate" after such dialogues by their contenders or by everyday inquisitors, for the lack of their own knowledge and understanding for the inner values of true Islam.

      One Can Pray Facing Any Direction...
      Since Allah is every where, Agakhani Ismailis feel themselves totally comfortable reciting his/her Holy Du'a, facing any direction or even with their backs to the Ka'bah. Some of the recently constructed multi-million dollar Jamatkhanas in North America are so built that the main congregation has their backs facing Mecca. That need not necessarily be an act of deliberate anti Islamic or rebellious expressions for the Shariyati Laws. But, these designs have not been considered as "faulty planning" by Karim Aga Khan, his brother Amyn Muhammad and the members of the Aga Khan's committee who have endorsed the building plans, for these most modern Jamatkhanas.

      It is customary in each and every Jamatkhana that a row of Jamati (community) Leaders and the Title Holders (male and female), should sit facing the rest of the congregation, even while praying and prostrating. There would be a row of individuals, sitting with their backs to the side wall, in the male as well as the female section. Both these sections are kept side by side in one big hall. Hence, a row of males would face and prostrate that of the females and vice versa.

      Here is what the Holy Quran Declares as "the truth" on the subject of facing Qiblah while praying and also Reveals about those "who are bent on wickedness" by refusing to follow this Command, after having known it. If this does not prove that the Farmans of Aga Khan have supersede the Verses of the Holy Qur'an, in this Unique Tariqah of Islam, what can?

      Holy Qur'an 2:149 "From whencesoever thou startest forth turn thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque; that is indeed the truth from thy Lord. And Allah is not unmindful of what ye do."
      Holy Qur'an 2:150 "So from whencesoever thou startest forth turn thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque; among wheresoever ye are turn your face thither that there be no ground of dispute against you among the people except those of them that are bent on wickedness; so fear them not but fear Me; and that I may complete My favors on you and ye may (consent to) be guided."

      "...they Bow (Ruku) not down!" the Qur'an
      The members of the 1.3 billion Islamic Ummah, begin their ritual prayers while standing in rows after rows, facing the direction of the Ka'bah (the Qiblah). Thereafter, they go into the Ruku (the Bowing position), and the Sujood (the Prostration). The members of the community of less than 1.3 million Batini Ismailis, recite their entire Holy Du'a - from the beginning to the end - in a sitting (the squatting) position on a carpeted floor. This Du'a has been ordained personally by the late Aga Khan and is rigidly adhered to. The Holy Qur'an Reveals; what is the Truth in this matter and who are "the Rejecters of Truth".

      O, ye who believe! Bow down (Ruku) and prostrate (Sujood) yourselves and worship your Lord.... Holy Qur'an 22:77
      Woe unto the Rejecters of Truth on that Day! and when it is said unto them: Bow down (Ruku), they bow not down. Qur'an 77:47

      "Shah-jo-Deedar" (Glimpse of Aga Khan)
      A Muslim, while in Ruku, recites: "Subhaanna Rabbiyal Azeem" (Glory to my Lord the Great) and "Subhaanna Rabbiyal Aala"
      (Glory to my Lord the Highest) in their Sujood. Ismailis do not recite the above two phrases. They glorify Hadrat Ali and his sword "Zulfiqar" in their Dua. They recite "La fata illa Ali la saifa illa Zulfiqar" ("There is no Hero except Ali, there is no sword except Zulfiqar"). An individual is meant to be in communication with his Creator in his ritual prayers. Are Ismailis trying to communicate to Allah (SWT) who was Ali?

      At the end of their Dua, Ismailis shake hands with the persons (male or female) sitting on either side of them, saying "Shah-jo-Deedar", meaning "May you have Deedar (Glimpse) of Shah (Hazar Imam - the Aga Khan)". Whereas, a Muslim worshipper turns his face to the right saying "Assalamu allai kum wa rahmattu Allah", meaning "Peace be upon you and Allah's mercy"; and then turns his face to the left saying the same words. Thereafter he raises his hands, seeks forgiveness, etc., etc., and concludes his prayers by reciting "Praise be to Allah, Lord of the worlds". The highest aspiration that a devout Ismaili harbors in his/her heart is to have the "Noorani/Ruhani Deedar" (Spiritual Glimpse) of their Mawla (Aga Khan) before his/her death. I have yet to meet an Ismaili who has had that fortune! I have met hundreds who have tried their level best to have that Glimpse, but with No Luck!


      An individual of any gender and of any age, who has memorized the Du'a, can lead the Congregational Daily Prayer. In other words, any male or female child can become a Pesh Imam. This individual, irrespective of his or her age, would join the rank of the Title Holders and face the congregation. The multicolored photographs of their Hazar Imam - Karim Aga Khan, which only a couple of decades ago used to hang from all the four walls and the pillars of the prayer halls of the Ismailis Jamatkhanas, are now placed on the side walls. There are a few occasions when the special "guided tours" of the prestigious multi-million dollar modern Jamatkhanas are conducted. Usually these tours are for the State dignitaries and the media, but strictly during the off prayer hours. The multicolored photographs of Karim Aga Khan are quickly removed and placed in a drawer of the pulpit by the volunteers, while the tours are being conducted. Again, for not to be labeled
      "the apostates" by the media, for their lack of knowledge of the inexplicable inner spiritual values.

      These are some of the reasons, why the admission to the Ismaili Jamatkhanas are RESTRICTED. These restrictions equally apply to members of the Islamic Ummah. The Agakhani Ismailis call themselves Muslims, but when it comes to standing "shoulder to shoulder" with their Brothers for the Daily Prayers, they part company and sit down in a secluded quarter and recite their own supererogatory prayer.


      Every visitor to the Jamatkhana is asked to remove his or her shoes before entering the prayer hall of the Jamatkhana. Karim Aga Khan enters the prayer hall with his shoes on. He conducts the various religious ceremonies, such as, of forgiving the sins of his followers by sprinkling the Holy Water on their faces and whispering in their ears: "your sins are forgiven", with his shoes on. I know this with certainty, since he had whispered that in the ears of my wife and me.

      Recently in Pakistan, before the High Court of Sind at Karachi, it was declared by the Ismailia Council's President and Secretary that:

      "inherent right of devolution of ownership of Jamatkhanas
      (is) in the Imam. ...Jamatkhanas are not dedicated as Masjids (Mosques) ...(they are) additional places for religious practices, other than Masjids, for supererogatory prayers."
      Such a Declaration, before a Court of Law, demonstrates that the Islamic Mosques are the Houses of Allah (SWT), and the Ismaili Jamatkhanas are the Houses of the Aga Khans. The prayers that are recited in the"Houses of Allah" are the Obligatory Prayers, Commanded by Allah. The Holy Du'as that are recited in the "Ismaili Jamatkhanas owned by the Aga Khan" are Supererogatory Supplications, Commanded by the Aga Khan.
      The synonyms to be found in a dictionary for the legal/technical term "supererogatory" are; "superfluous, nonessential, uncalled-for".


      Over the period of nearly 1400 years, the Islamic Salaah and the Shahadah have not been revised. Within a period of half a century, I have observed the Ismaili Du'a and the Ismaili Shahadah, each being revised three times. The present Du'a in Arabic, replacing the old Du'a in Gujrati, was formulated and officially pronounced by the Farmans (Holy Commands) of the late Aga Khan in 1956. Since he was suffering from lumbago, sciatica and the cancer, he sent his grandson - the present Aga Khan, to introduce the "New Du'a" in the Eastern Africa. The "New Du'a" introduced officially in Africa had an ending:

      "al-Imamul haziril maujood li zikrihis sujood." meaning:
      "the present Imam, to whose name prostration is due."

      When the same "New Du'a" was introduced in the Islamic State of Pakistan,the above mentioned phrase was changed to read:

      "Allahumma laka sujoodi wa ta'ati." meaning:
      "O Allah, to Thee is my prostration."

      Again, the same old apprehension of being labeled "apostate" by those Pakistani Muslims, who the lack knowledge and true understanding of the inner Ismaili gnostic, which is not so easy to comprehend.

      Though it may sound strange, the Karim Aga Khan himself has never lead the Ismaili Du'a (new or old), or joined the congregation in any of the Ismaili Jamatkhana. He has often attended the Sunni Mosques and recited the customary Islamic Salaah, behind Sunni Pesh Imams. I am told that he was once asked to lead a Friday noon prayer, by an Imam of a Mosque in India, but he declined the offer. Several written requests from the Ismaili leaders and the everyday "Khane-goers", made to Karim Aga Khan in the last two decades, to re-introduce the Islamic Salaah which was originally being recited four to five generations ago by their ancestors, remain to this day "unacknowledged", which can be translated as "declined".

      ** FOUR FACES**
      Here are the Specially Designated Titles of
      to whom the Congregation FACES everyday and every night,
      while praying in the Jamatkhanas, instead of the Qiblah.
      The word Qiblah means; The direction the Muslims face
      when performing their daily Salah "ritual prayer",
      the Ka'bah in Mekkah. See Qur'an 2:150.
      Are these the **FOUR QIBLAS**
      appointed by the Aga Khan
      for his followers
      to FACE
      for a specific term, by Karim Aga Khan.
      During their Terms of Office they,
      during all the religious ceremonies and prayers
      in the name of SHAH-PIR (Karim Aga Khan)
      by sprinkling the Holy Water on their Faces
      Collect donations, Zakat (Dasond), etc.,
      without giving any receipt
      in lieu of the Islamic Nikah Ceremonies,
      the couples Prostrate to them and receive their Blessings

      MORE 2 COME!

      Bubble Buster
      "The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion."

    12. #12

      Join Date
      Mar 25, 2000

      THE MESSAGE...

      "Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets, and Allah has full knowledge of all things." Qur'an 33:40
      "...And whose word can be truer than Allah's?"
      Qur'an 4:87
      From a genealogical point of view Imam Hussain was the Direct Descendant of:
      Hadhrat 'Ali ibn Abi Talib ibn 'Abd al-Muttalib ibn Hashim.
      Anyone who disputes the above facts and contends that Imam Hussain was the Direct Descendant of the Prophet (p.b.u.h.), then by the same token he/she should also declare and affirm that Karim Aga Khan is the Direct Descendant of Lord Churston.

      Case closed....

      Bubble Buster
      "The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion."

    13. #13

      Join Date
      Mar 25, 2000

      The fundamental sum, substance and spirit of the Agakhani Ismaili faith is the Farmans (communications and proclamations), made from time to time, by their Spiritual Leader (Hazar Imam). Imam’s conclusive authority to make these Farmans lies in his claim for being the 49th uninterrupted direct physical descendant of Ali (r.a.), the son-in-law of the Prophet (s.a.s.). The above self-assurance is also acknowledged in The Shia Imami Ismaili Constitution. Ismaili do recite the names of these forty-nine consecutive descendants in their daily ritual prayers.

      Ismaili historians record that the historical records of three consecutive descendants (Nos. 20, 21, 22) are very sketchy and most of the crucial data are UNAVAILABLE. The reason put forward being; the enemies of the Imams torched these records. Only the names and the years of their death are known to the Ismaili historians. Others doubt if these three ever existed in the History!

      Nos. Names: (as recited in Ismaili Dua) BIRTH DEATH
      19. Nizar (the great, great-grandfather) 1044/45 1095/97
      20. Hadi (the great-grandfather) Unknown 1136
      21. Muhtadi (the grandfather) Unknown 1157
      22. Qahir (the father) Unknown 1162
      23. Ala-Zikrihis-Salam* (the son) 1126 1166

      * Ala-Zikrihis-Salam is a terminology. His personal name was Hasan. Most of the non-Ismaili historians record he was the son of a Da’i (missionary). The name of his father was Muhammad bin Kiya Buzurgummid. Muhammad was not an Imam but a “Grand Master” of the Assassins of Alamut. To learn how and when Hasan declared himself an Imam, please click DAFTARY

      The imprisonment of Imam No. 19 (Nizar) happened in Egypt in the end of 488 AH / 1095 AD. It is suggested that his son (No. 20 - Hadi) was also imprisoned. This son is alleged to have escaped some time later. The details, as well as the years of his birth and escape are UNKNOWN.

      If one was to accept the alleged birth, the imprisonment and the escape, then the year of Hadi's escapement would be sometime after 1095. Hadi (No. 20), settled in Alamut, got married and had a son and a grandson (Imam Nos. 21 and 22). The details of the marriages as well as the years of the births of the children and the grandchildren are not available. The recorded birth year of Hasan, the Imam No. 23 is 520 AH / 1126 AD.

      Based upon the available (provided) data, one can say that the Ismaili historians are advocating; their Imam Hasan (No. 23), who was born in 1126, had a great-grandfather named Hadi, who got married sometime after 1095.

      The crucial question is;

      Are there any records in the history of mankind for any human being having a great-grandfather who was only
      30 years old or anyone having a great-grandson within a span of 30 years or less? (1095+31=1126, less one year for the escapee to get married and having a son.)

      The Mathematical QUIZ Is:

      What must be the maximum age of Qahir when Hasan was born in 1126 and what must be the maximum age of Muhtadi when Qahir was born, if Muhtadi's father got married sometime after 1095?

      Note: Please circulate copies of this QUIZ and see if anyone has an answer!

      Here are the two sources:

      1) Dr. Farhad Daftary's book; 'The Ismailis: their history and
      doctrines', 1990. Page 386 (hard cover copy).

      2) Ismailia Association for Pakistan's Gujrati history book
      'Ismaili Imamono Toonk Itihas', Part 3 - 1975.
      Page 119 (3rd re-print).

      Bubble Buster
      "The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion."

    14. #14

      Join Date
      Mar 25, 2000

      Dr. Farhad Daftary's publication The Isma'ilis - Their history and doctrines is acclaimed by the majority of the scholars, including the Ismaili scholars, as an actively pursued scholarly research. The author is regarded as an authority on the Ismaili movement. He claims to have devoted more than twenty years of his life to the research and writing of this authoritative history of the Ismailis. It is one of the reasons that this authoritative book of Ismaili history is sold in the Ismaili Jamatkhanas of the world by the Ismaili Institutions and Religious Education Boards.
      Dr. Daftary who happens to be a distant relative of the Aga Khans acknowledges the thanks of Farideh Aga Khan, who had been to him a constant source of inspiration and assistance over the years of his research and writing. The author also acknowledges the assistance provided by The Institute of Ismaili Studies, London. The Institute had placed at his disposal some rare Ismaili manuscripts. The texts from these documents have been quoted in the book. Since his research of the Ismaili movement the author has been closely associated with the Institute of Ismaili Studies in London.
      It does not surprise me that Dr. Daftary is not an Ismaili.
      Ismailis claim that the 'Noor of Allah' that existed within the physical body of Ali has been delegated into the body of Karim Aga Khan throughan uninterrupted physical chain of hereditary descendants. The Ismaili doctrine emphatically advocates and the Ismaili Constitution affirms that the Imamat can only be delegated by the legitimate previous Imam to his own, direct or remoter, male issue. In other words the physical chain of the present Imam must no doubt go back, without any interruption or break, directly to the first Imam Ali (a.s.), the son in law of the prophet of Islam, peace be upon him. Hence, the most important question is; Does the scholarly research by
      Dr. Farhad Daftarysupport or in effect negate this claim?
      Many Ismailis possess this voluminous (804 page) authoritative book of their Imams' perplexing history. It is said, more voluminous the book, lower are the possibilities of it being read, from cover to cover. I hereby invite the readers, who may have overlooked the history of their so called 23rd Imam, to read once again what is written between pages 385 to 392 and to find out for themselves; who was this Hasan a.z.s.?
      Was he a legitimate physical son of the previous Imam or a son of a Da'i (Imam's missionary), named Muhammad?
      Within these pages, the readers will also learn about the famous heretic Declaration of Qiyama made by this Hasan.
      The Agakhani Ismaili historians record that this Historical Declaration was made by their 23rd Imam Hasan - ala zikriya-salam, who was the son of their 22nd Imam, Qahir. Majority of the historians record, it was made by the son of a Da'i, Hasan bin Muhammad. This heretic doctrine of Qiyama liberated the Nizari Ismailis of the duties and burdens of Shari'a. Hence, the Nizari Ismailis began praying with their backs to the Qiblah and breaking their fasts and merry making in the middle of the day, during the Holy month of Ramadan. The Nizari Ismailis were called by other Muslims as the Malahida (heretics). The question one may ask is; Are the present day Agakhani Ismailis following the path shown by this enigmatic personality named Hasan?
      Professor W. Ivanow
      It is interesting to learn that in the Ismaili Du'a (ritual prayer), which the Agakhani Ismailis proudly recite (even today) in their Jamatkhanas three times a day, the name of their 23rd Imam, which they claim was "Hassan", does not appear. He is the only one, out of the forty-nine descendants, whose name is not mentioned in their prayers. The original Du'a was formulated by the late Aga Khan, decades ago. In lieu of the personal name of their controversial 23rd Imam, Agakhani Ismailis recite a terminology, "ala-Zikrihis-salam". The literal translation of which is; "upon his mention be peace".
      During 1957 and 1958, Professor W. Ivanow surveyed the enclave of Alamut, where this enigmatic personality was born, lived and died. His survey report was published by the Ismaili Society in 1960 from Tehran, Iran. On page 28 of this survey report entitled Alamut and Lamasar, Professor Ivanow writes:
      In the Ismaili terminology this kind of blessing, 'blessing be upon his mention,' is used in connection with the mention of the Qaim, the Ismaili term for Mahdi of the day of Resurrection, who is expected, thus belonging to the future, and his real name still remaining unknown. It may be paraphrased as:'Blessings be upon Him, whatever name He may have.'
      HASAN: a son of Muhammad b. Buzurg-Ummid?
      Ismaili historians record that Muhammad b. Buzurg-Ummid was a Da'i (a missionary),conducting the work of Dawa'h (inviting people to faith), on behalf of the Fatimid Imam Nizar, who lived in Cairo. Imam Nizar, along with his family members, had been imprisoned by his own relatives. Nizar died in 1097.
      Here is an interesting passage from Dr. Daftary's book:
      Our Persian historians explain that Hasan II claimed to be the imam's sole vice-regent and deputy (qa'im maqam va na'ib-i munfarid). (134) At Mu'minabad, Hasan's position as khalifa was explicitly identified with that of the Fatimid caliph al-Mustansir, who had been the imam. After the proclamation of the qiyama, Hasan, in his epistles (fusul) and addresses, apparently hinted that he himself was the imam and the Qa'im al-qiyama, the son of an imam from the progeny of Nizar b. al-Mustansir, though in appearance he had been considered to be the son of Muhammad b. Buzurg-Ummid. (135) At any rate, it seems that Hasan II claimed the imamate in some sense towards the end of his life. (136).
      Pages 389/390
      According to the age old Ismaili Tariqah (practice), the day the previous Imam leaves this world, his son (or, his grandson in the recent case) becomes the next Imam. The world cannot exist even for a day without an Imam, is the Ismaili belief. If so, why Hasan II had to wait until the end of his life and then claim the Imamat, if he was in reality a son of the previous Imam?
      Dr. Daftary's book was first published in 1990 by Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, New York and Melbourne, Australia. It is available in most of the Public Libraries.
      ISBN 0-521-37019-1, BP 195-18D33 1990. Please read pages 385 to 392 of this scholarly book to learn more on the subject.

      MORE 2 COME

      Bubble Buster
      "The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion."

    15. #15

      Join Date
      Jun 1, 2001
      Ok thank for the info...i ll take my time reading it you guys have fun debating..lol


      Till next time***Keep_It_Simple_Stupid***©

    16. #16
      Paki Pimpsta

      Join Date
      Dec 10, 1999
      are u an ismaili?
      Other people,
      What the hell is a memon?
      Basically people say Jinnah, was a Shia, Ismaili/Aga Khani. I say we shouldn't even bother on what the hell he was, because he was not a very good Muslim to begin with. He drank alcohol, ate pork, married a 17 year old Parsi for her body, and she never became a Muslim as people say she did.
      Liaquat was Shia? I thought he was Sunni.

      Grab your glocks when you see 2PaK
      Call the cops when you see 2PaK

    17. #17
      Junior Member

      Join Date
      Dec 26, 1999
      Yes, I am Ismaili.

      Memon is a Sunni of Gujrati ancestry!

      Jinnah was born into a Khoja Ismali family, he was not a practising Ismaili or religious per se.

      When he died he was buried according to sunni rites!

      I do not know what Liaqat Ali Khan was?

    18. #18
      La Signora

      Join Date
      Dec 31, 1969
      I believe that the Agha Khanis are not the only Khojas, there is another group called Ithna'ashris, and there tends to a lot of mixing up because it's not normally recognised that they are different. Anyone know more about them?

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