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  • Results 1 to 14 of 14
    1. #1
      The Watcher


      [/i]Please read it carefuly, I do not want unread replies. Unread replies often turn into fights and misunderstanding. I DO NOT WANT THAT![/i] :-|

      The Sunnies do like members of the Prophet’s family. As such, they say it is incumbent upon everyMuslim man or woman to love them. However, the Sunnies do resent the act of appealing for assistance from the members of the Prophet’s Household that is commonly perpetrated by the Shiite Adherents. For they seek help especially from Al-Hussein and others.

      How can a reasoning person seek assistance in meeting his requirements and obtaining his needs from creatures other than their Creator, God Almighty? Yet such a person repeats the following words of God in his prayer (sala’t) at least seventeen times a day: “Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.” Chapter I (Surat Al-Fa’tiha)

      Amazingly, you see such people who seek help from other than God Almighty Asking for help: O Hussein! O Ali! O Mahdi! And perhaps: O Abbas…! They appeal for help from the aforementioned relatives of the Prophet (PBUH) to assist them obtain their needs, or to help them remove lessen whatever overburdens them.

      As far as the Sunni Muslims are concerned, when they are in distress, they only call : “O Allah!” They do turn to Him only in their quest for help as they appeal for aid from Him only to remove their agony. They do that with clear perception that supplication to the Only One God is one of the aspects of worship as the Messenger of God (Peace be upon him) prescribed for them. In this respect, supplication to other than Allah the Omniscient is ipso facto worshipping other than Him. Indeed the Shiite adherents do love excessively members of the Prophetic Household without observing the fact that they are mere humans and not gods. It should be borne in mind that mankind, can neither inflict anybody with harm nor confer benefit to him whatever their ranks and prestige may be in the sight of God Almighty. For Only God Almighty can cause harm or bring benefit to us.

      Some of the Shiite accounts have dedicated duties to each one of their Imams as regards conferring of benefits and infliction of harm to people. They thus said: As far as Ali bin Al-Hussein is concerned, his name shall be invoked to save people from tyrannical kings as well as from the evil whispering of the Devil. Muhammad bin Ali and Jaafar bin Muhammad, will be responsible for saving the Shiite adherents from the Hell-Fire on the Day of Judgment, and to guide people to the true way of worshipping Allah the Omnipotent and obeying His commandments. Musa bin Jaafar, was assigned the duty of mediation to God Almighty for those who seek good health from Him. Whereas the duty assigned to Ali bin Musa was to mediate to God Almighty for people who seek safety when navigating or sailing in the Sea and those who travel on the mainland. As regards Muhammad bin Ali, through him sustenance will be proceeding from God Almighty. While through Ali bin Muhammad’s name, the optional acts of devotion, nice treatment of brothers toward each other, and all the other acts of obedience and worship of Allah Almighty will be accepted. Regarding Al-Hassan bin Ali, his duty and obligation is to serve the Shiite adherents in the hereafter. Whereas the responsibility of the Custodian of Time, is to rescue the people who are about to be stabbed to death, if they appeal for his assistance.

      There then came the author of the book entitled: “Biha’r Al-Anwa’r” [Seas of the Lights]. He illustrated in his book the supplication to be said earnestly when appealing for the aid of the Imams within the scope of their duties and obligations as elaborated above.

      In this respect, Al-Majlisi, one of the prominent Shiite Scholars, concluded that the above-mentioned cults are the greatest medicine and means of cure for whosoever intercedes with them. As such, the Shiite Scholars prescribed supplications (Ad’iyah), with regard to the aforementioned pattern of placing their hope in their Imams [religious leaders] and seeking their assistance. Hence, they do turn to their Imams for aid when in distress and invoke their names respectively. This is done in response to their awaited Imam’s narrative, in the following text: [/i]“O pillars of the countries, gates of faith, and granters of donations, it is decreed that by you the distressed and destitute will be saved. Nothing can happen without you being a reason and an obvious way towards its occurrence. There is neither deliverance nor resort from fear except by taking shelter in you, and there is no way we can dispense with you… O eyes of God that never relent”[/i] (Bihar Al-Anwa’r, 37/94)

      I am well aware that the Shiite Adherents do not exalt their Imams to the rank of divinity and claim they are gods. Besides, they regard it as a big enormity. However, we cannot conceal the reality that, while they do not deify their Imams, they, in the long run bestow lavishly upon them distinctive attributes of divinity in one way or the other. Thus invoking God Almighty by mentioning their names, has become a means by which their prayers and supplications are accepted to God Almighty according to their belief. Whereas God Almighty says in the Holy Qura’an: “The most beautiful names belong to Allah: so call on Him by them…” (7: 180)

      However, belief in their religious leadership (Imamah) has become a precondition of getting the acts of devotion of the Shiite Adherents accepted by God Almighty. Whereas in Islam, the criterion by which our acts of devotion are accepted or rejected, is the Unity of Allah Almighty (Tawheedullah) and sincerity to Him.

      How often do you hear some of the Shiite Adherents repeat: “O Ali provide supplies! O Hussein, rescue us! While others abide by the grave of Al-Imam Ridha, crying and rubbing along his tomb, kissing it and either invoke his name or swear their fealty thereat.

      Then after that he says unashamedly: “I do not worship him; i,e. any of the aforementioned Imams. This fact is embodied in their dictum: “Call upon Ali, the revealer of wonders.” When you ask such people: “Do you worship Ali? They categorically deny it. Whereas they call upon his name appealing for aid from him in obtaining their most demanding needs. What a double standard!

      Suppose, we submit to the fake belief that their Imams are regarded as abode for those in need, sanctuary for the sorrowful ones, peace for the grieved and an epicenter of the praying masses. This belief being due to the fact that supplications cannot be accepted to God Almighty except by mentioning their (Imams’) names. Therefore, what is the difference between this false proposition and the claim of the polytheists (Mush’rikoona) regarding their idols?

      Yes, there is a difference. The polytheists in times of adversity used to invoke and supplicate to Allah Almighty in a bid for rescue. God says in the Holy Qur’an: “Now if they embark on a boat, they call on Allah, making their devotion sincerely (and exclusively) to Him. But when He has delivered them safely to (dry) land, behold, they give a share (of their worship to others)! (29: 65)

      As regards the Shiite Adherents, they associate partners with God Almighty in both happiness and adversity by invoking the names of their Imams in order to rescue them. In addition to that, they supplicate to God, the Exalted in Might, through the names of their Imams. Moreover, they claim blatantly that God Almighty cannot remove affliction from any person save by praying to Him taking in consideration the names of their Imams. God forbid!

      In fact, the audacity and boldness of the originators of this baseless creed, have both prompted them to mention in one of their reliable sources of Hadith (Prophetic traditions), in one of its sections, the following baseless claim: “Supplications of all the prophets and messengers of God Almighty were accepted to Him by solicitation and mediation of the Imams (May peace and blessings of God be upon them all.) (Biha’r Al-An’wa’r 26/319 – 334)

      Narratives in this chapter are numerous and elaborate and are referred to in many reliable Shiite Sources. One of them says: “It was reported that Imam Ridha [on him be peace] said: “When prophet Noah (Peace be upon him) was about to drown in the flooding waters, he invoked God Almighty by our names. Hence God Almighty came to his rescue. When Prophet Ibrahim (Peace be upon him) was thrown into the scorching fire, he prayed to God through our names, and God Almighty ordered the fire to be cool and a means of safety for him [Ibrahim]. When prophet Musa (Peace be upon him) struck the Sea with his rod in quest of a path, he invoked God with respect to our names and God made the sea dry out. Finally when the Jews plotted to kill Isa [Jesus] (Peace be upon him), he supplicated to God by mentioning our names and was rescued from death. God eventually raised him up.” (Wasa’il As-Sheea 4/1143)

      This, in brief is the claim of the Shiite Believers. However, Allah Almighty says in the Holy Qur’an: “The most beautiful names belong to Allah; so call on Him by them…” (7: 180)

      God Almighty did not say: “So call on Him by the names of the Imams, their shrines, sights or ranks.” However, God Almighty says in the Holy Qur’an: And your Lord says: “Call on Me, I will answer your (prayer.)
      (40: 60)

      If the precondition of getting our prayers accepted to God Almighty were to supplicate to Him through the names of the Imams, He would have said: “Call on Me by the names of the Imams, I will answer your prayer.”

      In fact, the false prerequisite that is stipulated in the unauthenticated Shiite Belief is among the factors that lead to the rejection of our prayers by God Almighty. For, sincerity in prayer and supplication, is one of the conditions that lead to the acceptance of our entire acts of worship and devotion to Allah Almighty. God, the Most High says in the Holy Qur’an: “Call ye, then, upon Allah with sincere devotion to Him, even though the Unbelievers may detest it.” (40: 14)

      God Almighty also says: “… and call upon Him, making your devotion sincere as in His Sight.” (7: 29)

      In fact, those Imams are humans like us; they cannot confer benefit or inflict harm on themselves. God Almighty says in the Holy Qur’an: “Verily those whom ye call upon besides Allah are servants like unto you. Call upon them, and let them listen to your prayers, if ye are (indeed) truthful! (7: 194) Allah Almighty further says: “Yet have they taken, besides Him, gods that can create nothing but are themselves created; that have no control of hurt or good to themselves; nor can they control Death nor Life nor Resurrection.” (25: 03)

      Allah Almighty did not distinguish in His worship, between His ordinary servants and saintly men or angels closest to Him or prophets who were sent. All in His worship are equal as His servants and creatures. God Almighty says in the Holy Qur’an: “Christ disdaineth not to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah).” (4: 172)

      It should be borne in mind that nurturing young children and inculcating in their minds the falsely claimed obligation of supplicating to God Almighty confidentially and intimately, through the names of the Imams, and by abiding by their graves, is without doubt, a notorious way of rearing children. For, to inculcate in them the trend of resorting to humans rather than seeking refuge with Allah Almighty, makes them grow up with the same ideology which they will easily pass over to their children and grand children alike in the long ran. Perhaps, the child may forget the remembrance of Allah Almighty for the fact that remembrance of the Imams is always inevitably present in his heart and fresh on his tongue, whenever he intends to pray or supplicate to God the Holy One. What a grave sin!

      Sadly, the nature of the Shiite Sites and Shrines testify to the yield of bitter fruits from such legends and misguiding superstitions!

      However, the claim that the supplications of the messengers were accepted by invoking the names of the Shiite Imams is wrong, baseless and an indication of foolishness. For, those Imams were non-existent during the prophets’ era. In addition, it is a claim that leads to polytheism [Shirk] and ascribing of partners to God Almighty. Especially when the names of the Imams are assumed as the key-factor for acceptance of our prayers and a major prerequisite for getting our invocations answered by God Almighty. This is similar to the unfounded claim of the polytheists who used to say that their idols drew them nearer to God Almighty.

      It is crystal-clear as stated in the Holy Qur’an that the mighty messengers of God used to invoke and supplicate to Allah, the Exalted in Might, by mentioning His name and attributes that confirm His Unity. Never did they pray to Him by mentioning the names of the Shiite Imams. Allah Almighty says in the Holy Qur’an regarding prophet Yunus [Jonah] (Peace be upon him): “… but he cried through the depths of darkness: “There is no god but Thou: Glory to Thee: I was indeed wrong.” (21: 87)

      Another proof to the aforementioned fact are the words of repentance that Allah Almighty revealed to Adam (Peace be upon him): They said: “Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: if thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us Thy Mercy, we shall certainly be lost.” (07: 23)


      My references are there, unlike when you post there are NO references. http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif Anyway, I hope you can learn something from it and not come up with some counter argument which is totaly wrong. We all should ask for help from lord of worlds, lord of your imaams ONLY ALLAH! We do not need a mediator between Allah and our-selves, having mediator is a christian thing, they consider Jesus as mediator between them and God. We have quran to tell us that is false and bad. Get out of the superstition and follow what is in QURAN! Good luck. Take it easy. Bye. http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

      *V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

    2. #2

      Join Date
      Oct 27, 2000
      Watcher now is a very good time to GROW UP!

      I know lot of sunnis in my family that Say "Ya Ali madad"

      I know lots of Sunnis (in pakistan and here in Oman) that go to shrines(I ask of You to stay away from Masid-al-Nabawi if you think so cause that is also a shirne)!

      I request you to stop saying sunni this sunni that coz not all sunnis do what you think!

      You should say me this me that!

      Back to your post

      You are falling of a clif(astagfirrula)and there is a man standing there and he is willing to help you.
      You say "no I ask only Allah for help if he wills he can save me" "ya allah madad", "Ya Allah madad"
      But What you will fail to notice is that this man Is sorta sent by Allah to help you! So asking him will be Right!but you must think(if you wish) that this man IS sent by Allah(so Allah is indirectly helping you)!

      Part of my family is Shia and they have told me that Asking is a very normal thing for mankind You ask:

      * Your dad for toys
      *your teacher to give you good grades
      * your Dadi to pray for you!
      * your bank for a loan

      Than why can't you ask people very close to Allah for help(who are Alive and kicking)

      The point I have mentioned Above can also be asked from Allah so why don't we ask Allah for them? Because we know that our dad,mom, bank ect. ect. are actually sent from Allah to help us!

      What do you think Shias ask from thier Imams?

    3. #3

      Join Date
      Oct 5, 2000
      shah jahan well said..thanks brother

      the reason shia love ahle bait is because ahle bait have so much love for Allah

      these people here have nothin better to say then spread false rumors
      how can Allah help them?
      dhongi log
      i know there are sunnis in india who go to majlises, go to jaloos, do matam..only because they have the love for the people who love Allah so much

      logo ko itni takleef kis baat ki hai?

    4. #4
      Senior Member

      Join Date
      Jun 15, 2000
      Well.. i dont wanna get into ne argument.. but all i gotta say is... Sunnis r NOT allowed to go to matam or attend ne matam and going to majlises and jaloos n stuff for sunnis it TOTALLY WRONG... we r NOT allowed to do that... i aint sayin its wrong.. its part of ur religion so well its right for u guys.. but for sunnis they r NOT ALLOWED to do ne such thing like that... m not sayin u(shias) shouldnt be but all i m sayin is for sunnies its WRONG.. they shouldnt...

    5. #5
      khatoon-e-khaas from delhi darbaar

      khawateen's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 9, 2000
      Originally posted by Sherazz:
      shah jahan well said..thanks brother

      the reason shia love ahle bait is because ahle bait have so much love for Allah

      these people here have nothin better to say then spread false rumors
      how can Allah help them?
      dhongi log
      i know there are sunnis in india who go to majlises, go to jaloos, do matam..only because they have the love for the people who love Allah so much

      logo ko itni takleef kis baat ki hai?
      sunnis who do go to shrines and all.....they're doin somethin that ain't right.....god said ask me and i will give.....going to shirnes, offering food and what not isn't how god want's us to ask for his help( isn;t that what hindus do?).....the only thing u have to do is pray....as simple as that.
      ppl should just stop bringing up shia and sunni related things......sunnis are just gonna say they're right, and shias vice versa.....its a no win kinda situation http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

      [This message has been edited by khawateen (edited November 04, 2000).]
      standing alone on a street of broken dreams

    6. #6

      Join Date
      Oct 5, 2000
      bhaens k aagay been bajanay sa kiya hoga

      sadia who are u to say sunnis arent supose to do this or that? are u a scholer? u are only 15 sweety so u should first try to learn the basic of Islam then give fatwas

      khawateen i think u missed the point..shah jahan explained perfectly..muslims try to do everyting to please Allah..thats the main point..he gave such a good example

      u are falling from the cliff and i m coming to help u..but u will say..STOP IT SHERAZ DONT HELP ME..ONLY ALLAH WILL HELP ME!!!

      giro phir mera kiya hai http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

    7. #7
      illegal kafir

      Join Date
      Oct 7, 1998
      ...something to laugh at

      1) “I know lot of sunnis in ‘MY FAMILY’ say "Ya Ali madad"

      What should one infer by this statement of yours? Haan?

      I rather should give your intelectual ability, a big applause. To deny the message in Quran, you people can pull up anything.

      The message which watcher has jot down is for all, be it suni or shia or anyone else,
      its very simple and clear. Call Allah for help “DIRECTLY”, don’t attach strings, actively or passively.

      2) “i know there are sunnis in india who go to majlises, go to jaloos, do matam.. ONLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE LOVE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO LOVE ALLAH SO MUCH”

      Another lousy statement. So you mean anyone who loves AHLAYBAIT (the chosen people of Allah indeed) should do matam and go to majalis to showoff their love for THEM,
      without this act their expression of love is INCOMPLETE and is of no value.

      So this m&m (matam & majalis) is a love measuring scale. People use this next time. The more you give torture to your body the more love is expressed. Hummm interesting.

      3) "..muslims try to do everyting to please Allah.."

      ok lets rent some idols from nearby hindu temple and try to please God. ..oops did I say Allah or God?

      Sir is there any guidelines prescribed by Islam for that, or one can cross all the limits in order to please Allah?

      PS: explain if any other meaning can be derived from these statements.

      [This message has been edited by Zalim (edited November 04, 2000).]
      zameen tumhara kuch nahin bigar sakhtee, ger aasman say taluq pukhta ho....

    8. #8
      Senior Member

      Join Date
      Jun 15, 2000
      well Sherazz.. true m 15.. but bro i know a lot more bout sunni's then u do ! got that ! n we r NOT allowed to go to ne majlis or do matam stuff... Sunnis r only supposed to seek ALLAH for help n we dont need to include ne one else in our prayers to show ne thing.. thas how sunnis do it.. i m NOT talkin bout shias.. maybe u do that n its rite for u guys.. but NOT for us.. u guys do wats rite for u guys.. we'll do wat we'r supposed to.. besides its a no win situation..n for ur info.. i do know the sunni basics.. !!!

    9. #9

      Join Date
      Oct 5, 2000
      Mr Zalim first of all main qaadyano k moo nahi lagna chahta..aap pehlay musalman to bano then we can talk bout shia/sunni stuff with u..u are too ashamed to even talk about ur beliefs..i asked u many times..first thing first..say Prophet Mohummad is the last Prophet..can u say that first please mr zalim

      sadia just by saying u know the basics shows how immature u are..ppl serve their lives searching for more knowledge and still say they dont know enough..

      main bhi pata nahi kin logo main phuss gaya hoon

      [This message has been edited by Sherazz (edited November 04, 2000).]

    10. #10
      Senior Member

      Join Date
      Jun 15, 2000
      umm.. actually i'll try n not to post ne thing here in this section.. coz sunnis are just gonna say they're right, and shias vice versa.....its a no win kinda situation !!!

    11. #11

      Join Date
      Oct 5, 2000
      yes sadia age 15 main aap sab jaan gayeen hain..why dont u open an Islamic school..logo ko dars diya karo

      shayad main bhi aa ja'un aap say kuch seekhnay http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

      ignorance is a very bad thinghttp://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

    12. #12
      illegal kafir

      Join Date
      Oct 7, 1998
      Sheraaz, consider me a Kafir, now get your account cleared first.

      The thread is dedicated to the Oneness of Allah and its importance – There is no guardian or helper beside Him.

      Stick to the topic or you know better what to do…

      zameen tumhara kuch nahin bigar sakhtee, ger aasman say taluq pukhta ho....

    13. #13

      Join Date
      Oct 5, 2000
      my friend shah jahan gave a really simple example..but why would mr zalim understand..ager isko samjhana itna aasaan hota to Prophet Mohummad ko aakkhri Prophet na maan leta http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

      its really simple zalim, if u dont wanna understand then its not my problem

      there is NO God but Allah .. i m for that all the way buddy so stop it already

    14. #14

      Join Date
      Oct 27, 2000
      Originally posted by Zalim:
      Sheraaz, consider me a Kafir, now get your account cleared first.

      The thread is dedicated to the Oneness of Allah and its importance – There is no guardian or helper beside Him.

      Stick to the topic or you know better what to do…
      How many times have you heard a Shia Object to What you have said Above!

      Right- there is no gaurdian and helper besides him!

      And If you have faith go and reply to my posts about Sahis and about sunnisim and Sahabas?(that is if you have any faith)

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