A question to Ahmadis - Page 2

Numb · Aug 25th, 2008, 11:05 AM

which interpretation did he follow code red?

What is meant by "Khatum-un-nabeyeen"?

The Seal Of The Prophets. There will be no law bearing prophet after him! Did Mirza Sahib bring any new law? He was alhamdollilah a Muslim, he sacrificed his life for Allah, the Almighty and you people still question us? We speak the Kalima, we pray 5 times, recite the Qur'an and then you still dare to question us? You don't even have a right to open your cursed mouth.

Do you think we do this because we like to? Do you think we are proud making fun of Allah, Islam and fun of our beloved Prophet (saw)?!!?

I see lotta Ahmadies on these boards but these peeps run away from these topics. Don't open there mouth. Maybe they don't need 2 or they don't have time like me!

Here is a sentence I throw:

Pakistan declared Ahmadies to Non-Muslims, Allah declared Pakistan to Non-Muslim!

faltu time...hahahahahahaha...you made my day...hahahahaha
hope you won't be hurt when you remember back and think
"oh yeah, it was not a faltu time, mera dimaag hi faltu taa"

Peace Brother

arshad5 · Aug 25th, 2008, 11:35 AM

Thanks for answering my question indirectly Numb.

How can Mirza call himself a prophet? Prophet Muhammed was the last prophet full stop! If Ahmadis call Mirza a prophet then they cannot be muslims. The basic tenet of Islam is that there is only one god and Muhammed is the last prophet. It does not differentiate between law bearing or a non law bearing prophet.

Again this is my own view based on the limited knowledge I have about Islam, but even then the conclusion seems plain obvious.

Numb · Aug 25th, 2008, 11:40 AM

I don't understand you peeps. With what do you have a problem? With the word Prophet or what? Hazrat Abraham was a Prophet, too.

That is the fact, it DOES differentiate between law bearing and non law bearing. How can you say it does not?

Princess Fiona · Aug 25th, 2008, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numb

I don't understand you peeps. With what do you have a problem? With the word Prophet or what? Hazrat Abraham was a Prophet, too.

That is the fact, it DOES differentiate between law bearing and non law bearing. How can you say it does not?

Excuse my limited Knowledge.. My prophet hum unhain kahtay hain.. who brought a book with themselves... So ....

chacha_Ghalib · Aug 25th, 2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arshad5

Excuse my ignorance as I have a very modest understanding of Islam and have hardly visited this forum before. Do Ahmadis believe that new prophets can come after Prophet Muhammed (PBUH)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by arshad5

Thanks for answering my question indirectly Numb.

How can Mirza call himself a prophet? Prophet Muhammed was the last prophet full stop! If Ahmadis call Mirza a prophet then they cannot be muslims. The basic tenet of Islam is that there is only one god and Muhammed is the last prophet. It does not differentiate between law bearing or a non law bearing prophet.

Again this is my own view based on the limited knowledge I have about Islam, but even then the conclusion seems plain obvious.

wow... what humbleness!
one moment you declare that you have very modest understanding of islam and the next you start declaring who is a muslim and who is not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Fiona

Excuse my limited Knowledge.. My prophet hum unhain kahtay hain.. who brought a book with themselves... So ....

limited knowledge indeed... pray tell which book hazrat Haroon (as) brought?

[edited]

Princess Fiona · Aug 25th, 2008, 05:18 PM

Arghhh ok iam nice.. i don't say rude stuff

Code_Red · Aug 25th, 2008, 05:23 PM

Please stay well within the confines of the topic.

This thread has a very specific topic. Please post accordingly.

Comments , argument not falling inside the realm will be removed.

Please dont waste your time.

Princess Fiona · Aug 25th, 2008, 05:31 PM

^ sorry .. This topic just increases my blood pressure

... i guess i need lemon juice now..

FrozenFire · Aug 25th, 2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arshad5

The basic tenet of Islam is that there is only one god and Muhammed is the last prophet.

Hazrat Ali RA was given the title of khatam ul aula by Prophet Muhammad PBUH. Does that mean there can never be another wali on earth? There sure will , but no body will be as greater and/or superior to Hazrat Ali RA.

Likewise, prophet Muhammad PBUH is khatam ul anbiya.. His greatness can never be matched with any other prophet before Him. Islam was completed on Muslims at the time of Prophet Muhammad PBUH, but due to the changes and misinterpretations by mullahs in Islam.. Allah told prophet Muhammad that an Imam mehdi will come who will be from ur very own religion and He will be the one who will wake the true Islam , the same Islam that was once followed by people during Prophet Muhammad's PBUH time.

ahmadis also believe that there is none worthy of worship but Allah and Muhammad SAW is His messenger.

Numb · Aug 26th, 2008, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Code_Red

Please stay well within the confines of the topic.

This thread has a very specific topic. Please post accordingly.

Comments , argument not falling inside the realm will be removed.

Please dont waste your time.

then why are you wasting your time?

Code_Red · Aug 26th, 2008, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numb

which interpretation did he follow code red?

What is meant by "Khatum-un-nabeyeen"?

The Seal Of The Prophets. There will be no law bearing prophet after him! Did Mirza Sahib bring any new law? He was alhamdollilah a Muslim, he sacrificed his life for Allah, the Almighty and you people still question us? We speak the Kalima, we pray 5 times, recite the Qur'an and then you still dare to question us? You don't even have a right to open your cursed mouth.

Do you think we do this because we like to? Do you think we are proud making fun of Allah, Islam and fun of our beloved Prophet (saw)?!!?

I see lotta Ahmadies on these boards but these peeps run away from these topics. Don't open there mouth. Maybe they don't need 2 or they don't have time like me!

Here is a sentence I throw:

Pakistan declared Ahmadies to Non-Muslims, Allah declared Pakistan to Non-Muslim!

faltu time...hahahahahahaha...you made my day...hahahahaha
hope you won't be hurt when you remember back and think
"oh yeah, it was not a faltu time, mera dimaag hi faltu taa"

Peace Brother

Buddy ! this will be my last post in this topic, hopefully ; as i dont like repeating my self again and again.

Muslims believe this (The red text)

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the last and final prophet of Allah for mankind

Ahmadies believe this (the blue text)

Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh) is greatest prophet of Allah, but he is not the last one. There can be more prophets after him and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is one of them

^ this brand new belief is unique to Mirza Sahab and his followers (Ahmadies)

Now frankly, muslims have no interest in knowing about his ( Mirza sahab's ) attributes and qualities.

Ahmadies believe that orthrodox Muslims are mis-guided.
Muslim thought the same about same about ahmadies.

None of Muslim Schools of thought ever had that belief ( the blue text) therefore I said that Mirza sahab did not follow any of the interpertation of Shariyah, but invented his own.

Numb · Aug 26th, 2008, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Code_Red

Buddy ! this will be my last post in this topic, hopefully ; as i dont like repeating my self again and again.

Muslims believe this (The red text)

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the last and final prophet of Allah for mankind

Ahmadies believe this (the blue text)

Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh) is greatest prophet of Allah, but he is not the last one. There can be more prophets after him and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is one of them

^ this brand new belief is unique to Mirza Sahab and his followers (Ahmadies)

Now frankly, muslims have no interest in knowing about his ( Mirza sahab's ) attributes and qualities.

Ahmadies believe that orthrodox Muslims are mis-guided.
Muslim thought the same about same about ahmadies.

None of Muslim Schools of thought ever had that belief ( the blue text) therefore I said that Mirza sahab did not follow any of the interpertation of Shariyah, but invented his own.

So these so called Muslims Schools are greater than Allah? So these so called Muslims are greater than Allah and can call us Non-Muslims even though Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa (saw) said: If you call a muslim a non-muslim, you aren't one either...!?

Aren't you saying he invented his own shariah? Which one please? Do we pray now 6 times a day? Do we fast the whole year? Do we allow to pray wihtout wudhu?

What a brand new belief? What happened to your brain, damn it? I don't get you. I try not to laugh, but I cannot stop myself. I'm so sorry...

After Muhammad (saw) there will be no Prophet, but Jesus - a Prophet - will return. So he can return, but there will no Prophet after Muhammad (saw), my mind is twisted now...

Frankly, many Muslims are now taking interest in Ahmadiyyat.

Code_Red · Aug 27th, 2008, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numb

So these so called Muslims Schools are greater than Allah? So these so called Muslims are greater than Allah and can call us Non-Muslims even though Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa (saw) said: If you call a muslim a non-muslim, you aren't one either...!?

This is needless rhetoric. I did not state any such nonsense. I just jotted down the difference of core belief between the two groups.

Quote:

Aren't you saying he invented his own shariah? Which one please? Do we pray now 6 times a day? Do we fast the whole year? Do we allow to pray wihtout wudhu?

Do you have severe comprehension problem ?

Sir, with due respect please read and understand what i said with open eyes and open mind

Quote:

Originally Posted by code-red

None of Muslim Schools of thought ever had that belief ( the blue text) therefore I said that Mirza sahab did not follow any of the interpertation of Shariyah, but invented his own

He invented interpertation of Shariah. Interpertation of Shariah is called Fiqa, or loosely Maslak. He did not follow any of the school of thoughts in Islam.

Which is the answer of orignal question in post #1

There is nothing wrong in this. Ask any of your knowledgable fellow ahmadi and he will confirm this.

psyah · Aug 27th, 2008, 02:51 AM

The prohibition of Takfir

Peace All

Please stop doing takfir on one another. The Ahmadis can be given other answers apart from going to the extent of takfir. They are monotheists and are people of the Qibla (meaning they direct their worship there) so please refrain from this name calling.

You can say they do not fit with the Ahl usSunnah wal Jammah ... but to say anymore is dangerous.

There is plenty of scriptural evidence that Isa (AS) is alive in heaven and has yet to die. Leave it at that.

Numb · Aug 27th, 2008, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Code_Red

This is needless rhetoric. I did not state any such nonsense. I just jotted down the difference of core belief between the two groups.

Do you have severe comprehension problem ?

Sir, with due respect please read and understand what i said with open eyes and open mind

He invented interpertation of Shariah. Interpertation of Shariah is called Fiqa, or loosely Maslak. He did not follow any of the school of thoughts in Islam.

Which is the answer of orignal question in post #1

There is nothing wrong in this. Ask any of your knowledgable fellow ahmadi and he will confirm this.

He revived it brother, not invented. Are these Muslims School higher ranked than a "prophet"? What did he invent, what did he not follow? Answers please...

Code_Red · Aug 27th, 2008, 05:27 AM

Thats what you believe.

You are free to believe whatever you want.

He is your prophet, you should follow him

cricketplaya · Aug 27th, 2008, 05:41 AM

Now this thread has got me confused. Dear Ahmadi friends, please tell me, what are the main beliefs that seperates you guys from the Sunni Muslims? You say Mirza Ghalib was NOT a prophet and he was NOT Jesus?

Numb · Aug 27th, 2008, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Code_Red

Thats what you believe.

You are free to believe whatever you want.

He is your prophet, you should follow him

You didn't answer my questions. Still waiting. No Answer will prove you wrong!!!

@cricketplaya:

"We" believe that after Muhammad (saw) many more Prophets will come. You can say Saints.
Sunnis, Shia and whatever believe that Muhammad (saw) was the last Prophet, after him no
Prophet will come.

STONECOLD · Aug 27th, 2008, 07:38 AM

The core belief of being a muslim is what the Kalima states : "that there is no God But Allah and Muhammed SAW is His Prophet".

As a muslim we also have been told that the Holy Prophet Muhammed is the last of of Prophets. After him there is no other prophet. The line of prophets has ended.

That is our belief.

We also believe in the coming back of the Holy Prophet Isa and the Imam Mehdi.

These as a muslim are our beliefs.

An apple can call it self and orange but it will still remain an apple.

Code_Red · Aug 27th, 2008, 07:48 AM

Yaar i have answered already so many times

, ek tu moderatory karo our ooper se 1 question ka 10, 10 dafa answer karo

What did he invent ?

He invented an interpertation of Shariyah

what did he not follow ?

I dont know, Dont know much about him personally

Ab please meri jaan chor do

Numb · Aug 27th, 2008, 07:51 AM

which interpretation of Shariah exactly? WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HE HAD TO SAY! DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WROTE, HOW CAN YOU MODERATE SUCH A RELIGIOUS SUBFORUM YOU JOKER?

DO YOU EVEN HAVE A RIGHT TO WRITE BS ABOUT A MAN YOU DON'T KNOW?

PLEASE DON'T SAY YES AS YOU WOULD MAKE A JOKE OF YOURSELF AND THIS IS THE LEAST YOU WANT. SURE BET.

Aapa Aapka Imaan, Hamaara Hamaara Imaan.

Numb · Aug 27th, 2008, 08:13 AM

1. Jesus was lifted to heaven with a purpose and will be brought back finally to earth.

2. The coming of an old Prophet after the last one had appeared would not break the seal
of his finality.

I wont mention the 3rd point. It s senseless anyway.

Code_Red · Aug 27th, 2008, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numb

which interpretation of Shariah exactly? WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HE HAD TO SAY! DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WROTE, HOW CAN YOU MODERATE SUCH A RELIGIOUS SUBFORUM YOU JOKER?

DO YOU EVEN HAVE A RIGHT TO WRITE BS ABOUT A MAN YOU DON'T KNOW?

PLEASE DON'T SAY YES AS YOU WOULD MAKE A JOKE OF YOURSELF AND THIS IS THE LEAST YOU WANT. SURE BET.

Aapa Aapka Imaan, Hamaara Hamaara Imaan.

Did I write anything offensive about that man ?

Tell me where, I will gladly edit it.

I was refering to his public views and teaching all along.

If you took it in wrong meaning then it is your comprehension problem, nothing else. Get some education dude, or ask someone to explain it to you

If you think i am not doing this job properly, report to admin or start a thread in feedback

I am here, Lets see some backbone TOUGH GUY

Numb · Aug 27th, 2008, 08:45 AM

So you can refer to a Man and his teachings without knowing him. I think you took it wrong tough boy. Aren't you offensive when you say he invented his own belief/sharia whatever?

Aren't you offensive when you say

'Now Frankly, muslims have no interest in knowing about his ( Mirza sahab's ) attributes and qualities.'

Yeah, you're right, I should sacrifice my materialistic life to find the truth! This is what I'm doing. Joining the Jamia.

psyah · Aug 27th, 2008, 08:58 AM

I am not Ahmadi but I can answer the questions about what they believe:

1) Finality of prophethood is viewed not as a finality at all, based on the argument that khatim means SEAL not FINAL, (though final is connected to the meaning seal) however, SEAL is viewed by Ahmadis as a status rather than the end of the page. In that no other complete doctrine will be revealed, but aspects will be abrogated and modified and new injunctions put in place within the framework of what we already have, by people who will have the status of prophets because they will receive wahi. AhlusSunnah walJammah do not believe any wahi can come to anyone from now on. Upon the advent of Masih there will be miraculous events.

2) Miracles are not part of the belief system of Ahmadis in the same way that we believe in them. They refer to something that is a natural hidden phenomenon. This is a more rational and down to earth perspective of unusual behaviour, but we are required to believe in supernatural behaviour in that it comes from God and He can do what He Wills.

3) Jihad like miracles has been toned down to that of the pen only. This is a similar stance to that of the Ismailis. Likewise their interpretations of Isa (AS) being a general are not present. They see the references to killing swine and breaking the cross to be alegorical references only.

4) They believe the term Masih is a transferrable title. In that it is like a spiritual ora that manifests over people who are appointed Khaliph. In this way the first Masih after Muhammad (SAW) was Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and Khaliphs after him carry the title Kh