Namaz during Roza

Niksik · Sep 15th, 2008, 12:05 PM

I know many people who keep roza with the utmost discipline and sincerity but skip on their 5 fardh salaat.

I was discussing this with a friend and she said that roza without the 5 obligatory prayers may have no value by itself.

Please shed light on this. Thanks.

AQ · Sep 15th, 2008, 12:23 PM

I do not know the answer and would like to read what narrations are there for this..

My personal take is on just few pointers...

- During the time of Prophet

, salaah was the difference between a Muslim and Non-Muslim - for that reason even hypocrites used to show up in Mosque lest they be considered non-muslims.. There is even an authentic hadeeth saying the very same that Salah is the difference between a momin and kaafir.

- Anyone who does not offer salah, but does not reject its being fardh can not be considered out of Islam but a sinner.

- Fasting is a separate Fardh and I am not sure if it is mutually inclusive with Salah. From my understanding, Fasting bears its own rewards but at the same time, leaving the salah bears its own sin value.... Do the math and see if fasting will really help in such situation....

I do not know really... Wallah-o-Wa Rasoolehi Aalam!

Niksik · Sep 15th, 2008, 12:40 PM

Good points AQ.

TLK · Sep 15th, 2008, 12:50 PM

I think that Fasting without salaat is just a faqaa.

The Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace stated, “The first thing one will be held accountable for on the Day of Judgment is prayer.” (Sunan Abu Dawud, al Nasa’i: Kitab al Salah Bab al Muhasabati `ala al Salat #469-471; Al Hakim also narrated it and said it is sahih)

What is good your fasting is if you fail the first question.

dewdrops2 · Sep 15th, 2008, 01:27 PM

here's a little something I read about Prayer.

Quote:

Advising one who does not pray

"Then there has succeeded them a posterity who have neglected and lost the prayers, and followed their lusts; thus, they will face devastation (on the Day of Judgment, i.e., he will face Hell)." Surat Maryam 19:59.

By completely ceasing to perform prayers, a person is judged to be a kaafir, based on several ahaadeeth of the Prophet (peace be upon him), one of which is:
"The obligation and pact between us and them (the munaafiqeen, the hypocrites) is the prayer, so whoever abandons it has indeed committed kufr (i.e., become a kaafir, a non-believer)." (Tirmidhi, hadeeth #2621, and it is sahih) The meaning here is that the hypocrites are guaranteed their security and immunity from being fought by the Muslims as long as they perform their prayers; if they abandon their prayers, then they are among the kuffaar, and are subject to being fought and killed in the war against them. The Prophet further says, "What is between a person and committing shirk (associating partners with Allaah) and kufr (disbelief) is abandoning the prayer." (Sahih Muslim, #82)
The man in question, accordingly, is to be shunned--no one should eat the meat he slaughters; he is not to marry a Muslimah; he is not to inherit a Muslim relative; he is not allowed to enter Mecca; upon dying he is not entitled to Muslim burial rites such as the washing of the body or the shrouding or the funeral prayer; and his inheritance is to go to the the community fund and not to his inheritors. Thus, it is incumbent upon you to exert as much effort as possible in advising him and admonishing him concerning the gravity and danger of his crime, and of the punishment of Allaah the Almighty. If he persists and rejects your admonition, then you would not be wrong in abstaining from your friendship with him, until you can solicit help from other friends among those who accept guidance so that you may spend your time with them inviting him to Allaah.

Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

this might have helped you By understanding the importance of Praying.
Rest as AQ said "Do the Math"

dewdrops2 · Sep 15th, 2008, 01:33 PM

Just read something else which might be of benefit.
Here it is :

Quote:

Ruling on one who neglects prayer

Praise be to Allaah.
The scholars have differed concerning the Muslim who deliberately neglects salaah without denying that it is obligatory. Some of them say that he is definitely a kaafir who has gone beyond the pale of Islam. He is considered to be a murtadd (apostate) who is to be given three days to repent – if he does not, he is to be executed for his apostasy. The funeral prayer will not be recited over him, and he will not be buried in the Muslim graveyard. The greeting of salaam is not to be given to him, in life or in death, and his greeting is not to be returned; prayers for forgiveness and mercy for him cannot be offered; he cannot inherit, neither can his wealth be inherited, instead it is to be given to the Muslim treasury (bayt al-maal). This ruling applies whether the number of people who are neglecting their prayers are many or a few.
This opinion is the soundest and most correct, because of the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “The difference between us and them is salaah. Whoever neglects it is a kaafir.” (Reported by Imaam Ahmad and the authors of Sunan with a saheeh isnaad); and: “(Nothing stands) between a man and kufr and shirk, except prayer: (whoever neglects it becomes a kaafir and a mushrik).” (Reported by Imaam Muslim in his Saheeh, with other similar ahaadeeth).
The majority of scholars said that if a person denies that prayer is obligatory, he is a kaafir and an apostate from the religion of Islam. The ruling concerning such a person is as described above. If he does not deny that it is obligatory, but he neglects it because of laziness, for example, then he is guilty of a major sin (kabeerah), but he is not considered to be beyond the pale of Islam. He should be given three days in which to repent. If he does, then al-hamdu lillah (praise be to Allaah); if he does not, then he should be executed, but this is a punishment, not because he became a kaafir. In this case, he should be washed (ghusl, after death) and wrapped in a shroud (kafn). The funeral prayer should be offered for him, prayers can be offered for forgiveness and mercy for him, and he should be buried in the Muslim graveyard. He can inherit and be inherited from. In general, all the rules concerning Muslims who are sinners apply to him, in life and in death.

(From Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 6/49)

Niksik · Sep 15th, 2008, 01:41 PM

Thanks so much everyone, for the references. So does it mean that if one keeps roza but does not pray namaz their roza is nullified?

dewdrops2 · Sep 15th, 2008, 01:42 PM

Quote:

He fasts in Ramadaan then he does not pray after Ramadaan

If a man is keen to fast in Ramadaan and to pray in Ramadaan only, but he gives up praying as soon as Ramadaan is over, is his fasting valid?.

Praise be to Allaah. Prayer is one of the pillars of Islam, and it is the most important pillar after the Shahaadatayn (twin testimony of faith). It is also an individual obligation. Whoever does not do it because he denies that it is obligatory or he does not do it because he is lazy and heedless, is a kaafir. As for those who fast in Ramadaan and pray only in Ramadaan, they are trying to deceive Allaah. How bad are those who only acknowledge Allaah in Ramadaan. Their fast is not valid if they only pray in Ramadaan, rather by doing this they are kaafirs who are guilty of major kufr, even if they do not deny that prayer is obligatory; this is according to the more correct of the two scholarly views. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “The covenant that stands between us and them is prayer; whoever does not pray is a kaafir.” Narrated by Imam Ahmad, 22428; al-Tirmidhi, 2621; al-Nasaa’i, 431; Ibn Maajah, 1079 – with a saheeh isnaad from Buraydah al-Aslami (may Allaah be pleased with him). And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The head of the matter is Islam, its foundation (or its pillar) is prayer and its pinnacle is jihad for the sake of Allaah.” Narrated by Imam al-Tirmidhi, 2616, with a saheeh isnaad from Mu’aadh ibn Jabal (may Allaah be pleased with him). And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Between a man and kufr and shirk there stands his giving up prayer.” Narrated by Imam Muslim in his Saheeh, 82, from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah al-Ansaari (may Allaah be pleased with him). And there are many similar ahaadeeth.
And Allaah is the Source of strength. May Allaah send blessings and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions.

Standing Committee for Academic Research and Issuing Fatwas. 10/140.

Hope this helped.

pinks · Sep 15th, 2008, 06:55 PM

i find this strange too.

what is the POINT of fasting if ppl are going to delibertely neglect that which is fardh? and a pivotal fardh at that.

Code_Red · Sep 16th, 2008, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niksik

Thanks so much everyone, for the references. So does it mean that if one keeps roza but does not pray namaz their roza is nufillied?

I think we should not be drawing conclusions here, becasue both ibadaat fall into the category of Haqooq Allah. I think the points made by AQ are quite comprehensive, It is better to stay short of issuing any decree.

The fatwa posted by dewsdrop2 are frankly quite heretical.

No doubt Obligatory prayers are extremely important and leaving them is Gunah-e-Kabira but calling such person kafir and asking for execution and judging his/her faith is like playing God. There is no such precedent from the time of Holy prophet (pbuh)

These fanatic thoughts and opinions should not be reproduced becasue they reflect the lack of basic understanding of Islam on part of poster / propagator

Code_Red · Sep 16th, 2008, 01:18 AM

Many people start praying regularly, each year after Ramzan. So we should Pray for them that Allah give them hidayat and dedication to continue it for life.

More than anything counseling with wisdom and sincerity and guidence from Allah will put the person on right track, inshallah

dewdrops2 · Sep 16th, 2008, 01:41 AM

^Ameen.