My secret belief - Page 2

psyah · Sep 17th, 2008, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hareem01

How can our respected mods can allow such nonsense in Religion and Scripture forum?

Code_red is making things up without any proof from any Scripture, and what is the purpose of this thread?

codey we don't wanna know all that nonsense that you've got in your mind.

Peace my dear hareem01

I am reading what Code_Red has to say. He did the same for me. Even when he disagreed with me he gave me a chance.

I however want to entertain the angle he is giving, partly because I like science fiction and understand that most modern sci-fi stories/programmes are based on actual theoretical scientific study, some of which has come into the practical science domain today. Such as microwaves for example.

This furthermore is not an Islamic forum ... it is a religion forum and people such as Christians and Hindus will say things that are blasphemous to our understanding but we will not shut them down. Code_Red has distinctly said these are HIS personal views he is not imposing them upon the rest of us.

STONECOLD · Sep 17th, 2008, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Code_Red

^ I believe that. But i also believe that we must not restrict Allah's canvas.

I have the following understanding of prophet Jesus's (pbuh) life story.

The story of his birth is mentioned in Sura Mariyam. Here is my take on this :

When Hazrat Mariyam went to distanct place, She encountered a member of some advanced civilization, who was visiting earth at that time. He infused an embryo in her body without getting into any form of physical contact with her. Most probably he did due to direct intution from God Almighty.

The boy started talking to people , as he was built on a different DNA model , which was far more advanced than human model. The child recieved intution from God Almighty as well as the species he belonged to. The civilization which he belonged was very pious and very technically far more advanced than mankind at that time.

The boy when grew up, turned out to be God fearing fellow. Started preching people of his surrounding with good charachter and love and compassion.

Those missing years of life about which there is no record available, he might have visited his native land and people ... and learned to heal nasty ilnesses, whether spritual or physical. He treated mankind after returning back to earth. He gathered followers, taught them wisdom and good manner. Jews/roman tried prosecute him, unjustly

He was beamed back to his native planet and lived (or is living) rest of his life there

Can i have some of what your smoking please?

hareem01 · Sep 17th, 2008, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psyah

Peace my dear hareem01

I am reading what Code_Red has to say. He did the same for me. Even when he disagreed with me he gave me a chance.

I however want to entertain the angle he is giving, partly because I like science fiction and understand that most modern sci-fi stories/programmes are based on actual theoretical scientific study, some of which has come into the practical science domain today. Such as microwaves for example.

This furthermore is not an Islamic forum ... it is a religion forum and people such as Christians and Hindus will say things that are blasphemous to our understanding but we will not shut them down. Code_Red has distinctly said these are HIS personal views he is not imposing them upon the rest of us.

I don't have problem with anyone's personal views as long as they provide proof for it when sharing with others on a public forum.
Hinduism and Christianity are established religions and their belief is based on their Scriptures.

I just want to know what makes him think all that nonsense....I mean these things aren't in our Scriptures nor our Ulema ever said anything like that.

STONECOLD · Sep 17th, 2008, 06:59 AM

I think the guy just has an overactive imagination and is linking his beliefs to his favourite tv shows!

His mommy needs to get him married

see,I find cure!

NeSCio · Sep 17th, 2008, 07:21 AM

Quote:

I just want to know what makes him think all that nonsense....

with such a mindset, it's no use knowing what makes him think that way.

Anyway, codey, this is an interesting analysis you put forth here, which I have never heard of. Although I find it a bit far-fetched, I'd be interested to hear a couple of more of these analyses.

A few questions coming to my mind:
- why would those extra-terrestrial persons chose Earth? Or is it that they go from one planet to the next?
- why did they look like humans?
- if multiple people came from outer-space, did they all come from the same place? or is it possible that one came from Krypton, the other from Pluto etc? then the question is why do all have the same human features? Or did allll of them have the ability to appear like humans?

hareem01 · Sep 17th, 2008, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeSCio

with such a mindset, it's no use knowing what makes him think that way.

What do you mean "such a mindset"?

Even Light_Bearer finding is it a bit silly.

Codey
TV is a propaganda machine and dumb people believe in everything they watch on TV to be real like Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Xmen, Heroes etc etc.

Regarding your "secret belief" which is not so secret anymore, either it is Ahmadism or Scientology or something else but it's surely not Islam.

chviky · Sep 17th, 2008, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Code_Red

This is not Fiction. This is my belief

I am not kidding. You read quran and you come across numerious accounts where you can sense that Allah is telling you something but you are not paying heed.

Can you deny that As'haab-e-kahaf experienced time travel >? Is that fiction too ?

Hazrat Suleman had extra-ordinary powers , which no other prophet posseessed Should this be a fairy tale or there is an explanation for it. My explaination makes perfect sense

Holy quran tells us many stories where 'Some men' came to various prophet and foretold him about future event / catastrophies. They are generally considered as angels in the form of humans. But most of them were not 'angel'. They were people from other planets and galaxies. Some time they came for experiments and brought good news and other time they brought destruction.

You people must be thinking that i am insane. Quran has clearly told about the creatures present in the universe just like they are on earth. The earlier you realize, the better

Bro u really need a good tafseer to understand QURAN's stance. Of course one can get the basic Hidaya given in the QURAN as ALLAH made it easy for MANKIND. But u r devistaed in ur thinking so thats why u need one. Just go to QURANGO(Dot) Com to get it and learn it!!!. Dont waste ur time upon thinking the Scientific Rationalism too much just like the previous era of newtonian physics influences upon ISLAM.

NeSCio · Sep 17th, 2008, 08:34 AM

hareem01

^I dont see Light Bearer mentioning anywhere that he finds the post 'silly'. For your reference I quote that part of the post directed to codey beneath:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light Bearer

tumhein roza lag raha hai mere dost? interesting thread I will wait a bit more before commenting, at least when it will start making sense, too much interference for the time being.

The first part is a (rhetorical) question brought in a respectful way. The second part talks about his interest in codey's post, yet cautions that it is too early for him to draw any conclusions. Pray tell, where it says that LB found the post 'silly' or from where you deduce that?

Now, what I meant with 'such a mindset', is that you a priori label his belief as nonsense without knowing why he thinks this way. It ought to be other way around: first find out why he is thinking this way, and then based on that judge for yourself whether you find it nonsense or not. Actually that is exactly what LB is saying he will do ...

AshM · Sep 17th, 2008, 08:41 AM

Salam all,

Please carefully read the 7th verse of Surrah Aal e Imran

AlQuran 3:07

thanks

AshM

chviky · Sep 17th, 2008, 08:53 AM

Listen to it with open heart and mind, May ALLAH give all of us the sense to recognize the true path!

::: Tanzeem e Islami ::: Broadcast : Audio

hareem01 · Sep 17th, 2008, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeSCio

hareem01

^I dont see Light Bearer mentioning anywhere that he finds the post 'silly'. For your reference I quote that part of the post directed to codey beneath:

The first part is a (rhetorical) question brought in a respectful way. The second part talks about his interest in codey's post, yet cautions that it is too early for him to draw any conclusions. Pray tell, where it says that LB found the post 'silly' or from where you deduce that?

Now, what I meant with 'such a mindset', is that you a priori label his belief as nonsense without knowing why he thinks this way. It ought to be other way around: first find out why he is thinking this way, and then based on that judge for yourself whether you find it nonsense or not. Actually that is exactly what LB is saying he will do ...

Why coudn't you find any explanation for this?
"at least when it will start making sense"

NeSCio · Sep 17th, 2008, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hareem01

Why coudn't you find any explanation for this?
"at least when it will start making sense"

well, if something does not makes sense, does not mean it is nonsense. It can also not make sense to you, because you are not in a situation to grasp the true meaning yet. It is therefore not non-sense, but sense which is currently beyond your wit. And in that case, one should wait and see if additional information can make it sense for you, as LB rightfully does.

hareem01 · Sep 17th, 2008, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeSCio

well, if something does not makes sense, does not mean it is nonsense. It can also not make sense to you, because you are not in a situation to grasp the true meaning yet. It is therefore not non-sense, but sense which is currently beyond your wit. And in that case, one should wait and see if additional information can make it sense for you, as LB rightfully does.

nonsese=actions or words that don't make sense
I said the same thing in different words but if you just want to have a go at me then carry on.

NeSCio · Sep 17th, 2008, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hareem01

nonsese=things that don't make sense

so -assuming you are no rocket scientist-, you regard Einstein's general theory of relativity as nonsense? or any other advanced theory in any field that you do not specialize in?

point being, you did not say the same thing in different words, because the above equality does not hold; it should be:

Things that don't make sense = non-sense + things that make sense, but you don't grasp that sense yet

and here lies the difference between your statement and LB's.

hareem01 · Sep 17th, 2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeSCio

Things that don't make sense = non-sense + things that make sense, but you don't grasp that sense yet

No, because I know code-red's belief is based on his own assumptions and not on Qu'ran or Hadith or even Science.
but you don't grasp that sense yet
That sense is not exist at all because the things are made up by codey and contradict Islamic Scriptures.

aap mera dimagh mat khayen, main pehlay hi buhat parishan hoo mujhay aur parishan na karen.

Lets see if codey can make us understand his belief in the light of Qur'an and Sunnah.....but i'm sure he won't be able to.

hareem01 · Sep 17th, 2008, 09:46 AM

I can't believe people have started comparing codey's theories with Einstein's works.

NeSCio · Sep 17th, 2008, 10:14 AM

^first you request me not to bother you any further, but yet you yourself are necessitating me to ponder replying...

if you don't want to get bothered, you shouldn't post possibly provocative replies ;)

hareem01 · Sep 17th, 2008, 10:28 AM

AQ · Sep 17th, 2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Code_Red

No. It is just the limited abiliity of birdy brains out there to decipher the idea that Allah Almighty has not created the galaxies and billions of stars and solar system just for stupid mankind...

who is denying it

?

The fact that Allah categorically elaborates how He raises Apostles and Prophets from the people themselves, in itself is an evidence against your theory.

According to your theory, Either:

- Suleman (AS) was not a prophet although Quran calls him a prophet.

OR;

- The Sunnah of Allah mentioned in Quran about the Prophets is wrong (Naa'oozu billah)

Take your pick and see what you are doing in either cases...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Code_Red

As they read the opening verse of holy quran as ' Alhamdullilah e Rab'il Aalameen ' but limit its meaning in their mind to 'Alhamudlillah e RAB'il Arz'

again no one is denying that.... In fact, there is a hadith in Bukhari narrated to Ibn-e-Abbas

to whom Prophet

mentioned about another world other than this with the creatures similar to humans...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Code_Red

Who are we to challenge the abilitiy of God in making creature smarter than us, far more advanced and probably more obedient to Allah Almighty than we can ever be ?

Are we challenging that?

The WHOLE point is about the Satanic theory proposed out of proportion and out of the context of Quran. Sure Allah has made and can make creature smarter than us (though He calls humans be the best of his creations -REF: Surah Teeen) ... The objection is on declaring Prophet Suleman(AS) be a prophet not from this world. It's like nations of most prophets asking and wondering why an angel was not sent to them as a Rasool and why a human being like them...

Read up on the people of the time of Suleman (AS) ... They were given knowledge of the book and were friend with Jinns... Do we see the same behaviour in this time? Are Jinn normally visible and live among the mankind like they used to?

Read up in Qasas-ul-Anbiya how Syedana Izrael(AS) used to join the darbaar of Suleman (AS) and people could see him and recognize him as Malik ul Maut... Can you do that in these times?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Code_Red

Frankly, it is redundant in holy quran Allah has mentioned creature outside the realm of this earth.

Indeed... does not help you in your point though...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Code_Red

I am here to offer some fodder for thought , i.e Ghayaan ka chaara

Are you inspired by some Pandit?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Code_Red

Did I deny this ?

I have elaborate view on other prophetic stories , with reference from holy quran. I will share them later, inshallah

If you did not, then, Lo and Behold, you are declaring Dawood (AS) from outside of this world too...

Oh boy, it's getting interesting.... !

Code_Red · Sep 17th, 2008, 11:03 AM

Ok people, please slow down. I am not online 24/7. Dont be flooding in my thread

I want to answer all of you. please be patient.

Zer01 - thanks buddy, but i dont know the guy you mentioned.

Hareem01 - Thanks for the comments. Your reaction is understandable, as practicing muslim are very repulsive to new ideas, and do not tolerate new beliefs

Please state which part of my belief you find objectionable ?

Please state it clearly, point wise and then i will try to address them

chviky - thanks for advice , but please explain your statement :

Dont waste ur time upon thinking the Scientific Rationalism too much just like the previous era of newtonian physics influences upon ISLAM.

Quote:

Can you deny that As'haab-e-kahaf experienced time travel >? Is that fiction too ?

Please answer my ^ question. If you dont know where is this quranic story of time travel then please go to chapter 18 and start reading.

and then explain to me that Time travel ( going into future or past ) is possible or not according to your belief ?

more later ..

AQ · Sep 17th, 2008, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Code_Red

Hareem01 - Thanks for the comments. Your reaction is understandable, as practicing muslim are very repulsive to new ideas, and do not tolerate new beliefs

That is right. it's a new belief even new for Islam itself.

zer01 · Sep 17th, 2008, 01:12 PM

Beh Ismehi Ta'Allah!

All praise is due to Allah, The Lord of the Worlds (Quran 1:2)

There are other verses in the Quran that suggest the existance of intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe. These are just a few;

"Say: None in the heavens or on earth, except God, knows what is hidden: nor can they perceive when they shall be raised up (for Judgement)." (27:65)

"Among His (God's) signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the living creatures that He has scattered through them : and He has power to gather them together when He wills." (42.29)

Few important things to note about the verse 42.29:

1. The word used highlighted is "them", which suggest that there are living beings in the heaven as well.

2. The word used for living creatures in arabic is "dabata", which is used for legged animals and humans, which suggest presence of intelligent beings, though they may not be as intelligent as us.

Everything that Allah (swt) has created has a purpose. So it would be a an awful waste of space if humans were the only inhabitants among the hundreds of billions of stars in the infinite expanse of space.

The sixth Holy Imam, Imam Jafar Sadiq has said: Perhaps you think God has not created a humanity other than you. No! I swear to God that He has created thousands upon thousands of mankinds and you are the last amnong them."
-Bihar al Anwar, vol 14, p 79

When asked if there were other lifeforms on other planet, Imam Jaffar As Sadiq replied "Like this world there are 70,000 other planets with each of their peoples believing they are alone in the universe."

I posted above because I partially agree with your theory. As for the Miracles of Ambiyah mentioned in the Quran. Those were purely by the will of Allah (swt).

Allah is Aadil. He has made humans Ashraf Al Makhlookat. It is against Allah's Adal tha He sends an inferior living being to guide us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Code_Red

Zer01 - thanks buddy, but i dont know the guy you mentioned

Asif ibn al-Birkhia was a companion of Hz. Sulema (as). It is mentioned in Quran that he who teleported the throne of Queen Sheba almost instantaneously. Please reffer to chapter 27 verse 38 to 40. But not because he was a super human or from another planet. It was because he possessed a little knowledge of the book of Allah as mentioned in those verses.

Please also read Tay al-Ard

Following is a quote from a Blog on Magic and Religion:

Quote:

However, whereas performing miracles in Islam is reserved for a prophet ("Nabi"), some schools of thought within Islam believe in a form of metaphysical training in which the seeker can obtain the power to perform miracle-like events (called "keramat"). This is however not regarded as magic but rather psychic power. During the golden age of Islam, there was an influx of Hermetic and Chaldean thought due to the translation of many texts into Arabic. Magic based on angels, properties of the 99-Names of Allah, verses from the Quran, and the power of the Arabic letters became accepted as an alternative to sorcery between the ninth and thirteenth centuries. One of the most famous books of this era was the Shamsu al-Ma'aref al-Kubra, by Ahmed al-Buni. This book was later banned by orthodox Muslims as heresy, but continues to be read and studied. This kind of magic was called, instead of Siher (Sorcery), Ilm al-Hikmah (Knowledge of the Wise), Ilm Shem Yah (Study of the Divine Name), and Rouhaniat (Spirituality). For example, in Islamic tradition, as well as in Judaism, King Solomon, could communicate with the animal kingdom. That is believed to be God given, a miracle and not regarded magic. But then we read of a mysterious person in the circle of people around Solomon by the name of Asef ben berkhia, who is said to have been able to outperform the angels with his knowledge of the Divine Names. Magical power through Divine blessings ("keramat" e.g.) is therefore attainable by man; it is iktisabi, to put it properly.