Raindance

I'm so overwhelmed to see some great posts here and my belief has strenthen further to Follow my heart and stay focused on Shahada, Ibadat
Akherat and haqooq al ibaad, before I start cursing learned scholars of their beliefs.
Thank you so much AR,Cresent,ecoshan, expat1, janaan and quite a few others ^ ^ .

Some great answers up here about "Relevence to such conflicts" of beliefs should not be treated in condeming some one as "kafir" because Allah has strictly forbiden this, as well as not to declare things upon yourself as "Haram" or "Halal" when they are not.

I proudly belong to no Firqa or sect and would not allow myself to indulge in matter of little or no relevence as such.
Thanks yo'all

sweetu

ok for instance u have these ppl in pak or wherever go to shrines n places of worship n start kissing the graves of ummm i dunno watthey r called in engllish so in urdu its pir/fakir ppl anyways they bow don n start praying to these PIR instead of asking from Allah SWT
hope thats somewat answers ur question

EcoShan

thanks for understanding

JimmyKimble

sweetu

and may i ask who u r to lock this thread???

JimmyKimble

honey to me its LOCKED!!

abdelyuuki

Someone needs to spank the OP with the 'common sense' stick and JimmyKimble with the 'not everything revolves around you' stick.

Edit: Just my 2p, dont hate plx

aqeel123

so if i ask a frnd who is very mutaqi and prays five times a day to remember me in his prayers ....is that shirk ? if it is y ? if its not then, is that because he is alive ?

Robert

According to the verse 17:1, Mohammad went on Miraj and prayed in Al-Aqsa mosque.
Al-aqsa mosque was built in early Ummayad period.
So did Propher Mohammad prayed in the mosque before it was even built?
No, certainly not. In his Miraj journey, not only covered space but also time. He went to future (after the mosque was built) and prayed there. There is no reason to think of this as "unbelievable", if you believe everything else about Miraj (time travel indeed).
He prayed in the mosque, after his "death". There is no reason to say he was dead when he was praying in the mosque. Applying the same logic, there is no reason to think he is dead now, because If you can get out of time-space continuum, space and time does not matter to you and you can go in past as well as future. make sense?

EcoShan

hm i guess u didn read some replies here. it would be much better to find common ground instead of proving that he is mortal or immortal.

Robert

No, I read the thread title and reply accordingly. People's note many times are irrelevant to the subject. If I read all replies before I submit mine, thread will be closed before I could join.

EcoShan

well u could do it now b4 someone comes and start giving stupid arguments against ur logic.

lansing

The Holy Quran says:

kullu nafsin zaiqatul maot.


Every nafs shall taste death.

That includes everyone ever created, in other words all makhlooq.

I think Quran is quite clear on it. The word used in Islam is Maot. موت

Wallah o aaalam.

Robert

Quran also says do not call "Shaheed"s dead, because they are not. They eat, wear and drink the way you do, only that you can't see them.

See the conflict???

EcoShan

Brother could u please qoute the reference?? please
its gona be a great great help

EcoShan

and i think this shaheed thing is mentioned in Quran twice or so, and at no place i could find "they eat, wear and drink the way you do, only that you cant see them" could u please tell where is that???

Robert

Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord; They rejoice in the bounty provided by Allah. And with regard to those left behind, who have not yet joined them (in their bliss), the (martyrs) glory in the fact that on them is no fear, nor have they (cause to) grieve. „
—Qur'an, 2:214

In case you missed, sustenance means
1 a: means of support, maintenance, or subsistence : living b: food , provisions ; also : nourishment
2 a: the act of sustaining : the state of being sustained b: a supplying or being supplied with the necessaries of life
3: something that gives support, endurance, or strength

dewdrops2

..

EcoShan

Hey Bro Please read this carefully.

I dono u and me read diffrent Qurans or same cuz wat i find in 2:214 is something totally diffrent, so next time when u copy paste something please take care that u r copying from some reliable source and info in that is right.
Allah (swt) tells agian and again very clearly that whoever tells something from Quran that doesn exist will have to face serious consiquinses (just the explanation, and m sure u didn do it on purpose insha allah).

and now leme tell u wat u have posted is not one verse, these are 2 verses.

and as i said this thing is ONLY mentioned twice in Quran and the one you qouted is the second one and again wat u qouted (both chapter and verse number are wrong) are two verses not one : 3:169 and 3:170.

and wat u said in the previous post was:

now read it urself, it just seems like u r qouting a verse from Quran, thats y i asked that i have never heard about this verse as this thing is only mentioned twice in Quran and wat u qouted is not one of em and i asked for reference (which u couldnt provide). i dono that u have ever participated in any Islamic discussion or not but please brother wat u are prescribed to do by the tradition of scholars is that first u qoute a verse from Quran and then show that how it proves ur point as you did in my reply, u qouted two verses and explained the meaning of sustenenance. you dont just go and start telling your own interpertition as it might misguide alot of duffers like me.

and now coming back to the verse you qouted. why to qoute such a hard translation? :S My mother lingo is urdu so i always go with the translation that i can easily understand and make others understand easily. and wat u qouted was translated by Muhammad Asad.

Wala tahsabanna allatheena qutiloo fee sabeeli Allahi amwatan bal ahyaon AAinda rabbihim yurzaqoona

وَلاَ تَحْسَبَنَّ الَّذِينَ قُتِلُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ أَمْوَاتًا بَلْ أَحْيَاء عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ يُرْزَقُونَ

and now an easier translation and explanation.

[3:169] Do not think that those who are killed in the cause of GOD are dead; they are alive at their Lord, enjoying His provisions.

nothing hard simple english, u wont have to go to dictionary.com

explanation:
*3:169 We learn from the Quran that the righteous do not really die; they simply leave their worldly bodies and go directly to the same Paradise where Adam and Eve once lived (2:154. 8:24, 16:32, 22:58, 44:56 and 36:26-27)

and about eating drinking and wearing clothes u said, so i assume all this stuff is gona happen in Jannah/paradise, so i think we agree on that.

The other 2 reputed translations for the verse u qouted 3:169 are:

"Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord;" (Yousaf Ali)

Think not of those, who are slain in the way of Allah, as dead. Nay, they are living. With their Lord they have provision. (M.Picktall)

Dont think that m just trying to be rude or m acting like a scholar or a fanatic, m just a student of quran and not even half way through but it really dissapoints me when ppl instead of finding common ground just come and start giving their own point of view and proving they are right and the other guy is wrong, and to do this they just start copy pasting from a source that doesn't even know the chapter and verse number right.

and again, please try to find common ground instead of telling on forum that Muhammad (saw) is mortal or immortal. please read the posts above, ppl have said some pretty good stuff to find common ground. Allah is not gona ask u "did u think that Muhammad (saw) was mortal or immortal?" he is gona ask about the Shahadah, iman, Salaat, zakaat, saum, Huj.

Pardon my lecture, u might be more literate than I m, but just pray togethor whoever is wrong amongst us, may allah guide him, and show both of us the right path, the path of those who are blessed.

wondergurl

no harm in Robert sharing a legitimate point of view by quoting accurately from the Quran ^ , finding common ground is great but so is shedding light on a specific topic, if it increases our knowledge. that is the purpose of forums such as these.

EcoShan

I never said i disagree with him nor did i say that he didn't qoute verse from Quran.

u need to read my post, my topic was something else.

i disagreed with him on his way of discussion, you can not just qoute ur own interpretion , u have to qoute a verse with the "correct" references and then prove ur point with the help of that instead of jsut copy pasting, misquides dumbos like me.
Masha Allah u r smart u got wat he meant.

and its Quran that tells us to come to common ground, its not something i m saying, and if u wana argue then argue on Shahadah, imaan, salaat, zakaat, saum, and Huj

wondergurl

no I don't wanna argue, I get your point and I get Robert's point as well. thats the beauty of these forums, respect all feedback if its within the confines of the topic

EcoShan

lol by "you" i didn mean you wondergurl, i meant if anyone wants to argue.
and thanks for understanding

DaPakiGuy

Absolutely agree with you ^

Nussairee

Question: If praying to Allah (swt) next to a grave was "haraam", please tell why the Prophet (pbuh) wished to be buried in a mosque, i.e. Masjide Nabbawi?

And if making a muqbara over a grave was "haraam". Why did Allah (swt) ordered one to be built over the graves of the Ashaab e Qahaf in the Quran?

shortdog

ur talking about splitting hairs, if u pick up every little minor point

Fervid