Jews dont believe Uzair is Son of God !

Code_Red · Oct 9th, 2008, 02:31 AM

Jews are monothiest just like muslims. Why it is written in quran that they believe uzair is son of God ? And who was Uzair btw

and what was the story behind all this.

Quote:

The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! {9-30}

Plese shed some light if someone knows about the background. thanks

STONECOLD · Oct 9th, 2008, 03:51 AM

good question....i remember parroting this when i was kid!!!

hanibal · Oct 9th, 2008, 03:58 AM

Here is the answer copy & pasted from Was 'Uzayr (Ezra) Called The Son Of God?

Quote:

Uzayr, who was exalted by a community of Jews, is identified as Ezra by Muslim commentators. The Qur'an says:

The Jews call `Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is the saying from their mouth; (In this) they are intimate; what the Unbelievers of the old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the truth. [Qur'an 9:30]

Before we take care of the origin of the issue of exalting Ezra to son of God by some Jews, let us first discuss the life of the man himself.
Ezra (5th-4th century BC, Babylon and Jerusalem) was a religious leader of the Jews who returned from exile in Babylon, and a reformer who reconstituted the Jewish community on the basis of the Torah (Law, or the regulations of the first five books of the Old Testament). This monumental work of Ezra helped to make Judaism a religion in which law was central, that enabled the Jews to survive as a community when they were dispersed all over the world. Ezra has with some justice been called the father of Judaism since his efforts did much to give Jewish religion the form that was to characterize it for centuries after the specific form the Jewish religion took after the Babylonian Exile. So important was he in the eyes of his people that later tradition regarded him as no less than a second Moses. Regarding the tomb of Ezra Encyclopaedia Judaicas says

There are number of traditions concerning the site of Ezra's tomb. According to Josephus it is in Jerusalem; other hold that he was buried in Urta or in Zunzumu on the Tigris; but the general accepted version is that his tomb is situated in Uzer, a village near Basra. This tradition is mentioned by Benjamin of Tuleda, Pethahiah of Regensburg, Judah Alharizi, and other travelers, Jewish and non-Jewish who visited Babylonia.[1]

It is to be kept in mind that the knowledge about Ezra is derived from the Biblical books of Ezra and Nehemiah, supplemented by the Apocryphal (not included in the Jewish and Protestant canons of the Old Testament but present in Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox[/FONT] Churchs' canon) book of I Esdras (Latin Vulgate form of the name Ezra), which preserves the Greek text of Ezra and a part of Nehemiah.
[FONT=Times New Roman] It is interesting to note that the Jews in Arabia, during the advent of Islam, were involved in mystical speculation as well as anthromorphizing and worshipping an angel that functions as the substitute creator of the universe. That angel is usually identified as Metatron[2]. Newby notes that:

..we can deduce that the inhabitants of Hijaz during Muhammad's time knew portions, at least, of 3 Enoch in association with the Jews. The angels over which Metatron becomes chief are identified in the Enoch traditions as the sons of God, the Bene Elohim, the Watchers, the fallen ones as the causer of the flood. In 1 Enoch, and 4 Ezra, the term Son of God can be applied to the Messiah, but most often it is applied to the righteous men, of whom Jewish tradition holds there to be no more righteous than the ones God elected to translate to heaven alive. It is easy, then, to imagine that among the Jews of the Hijaz who were apparently involved in mystical speculations associated with the merkabah, Ezra, because of the traditions of his translation, because of his piety, and particularly because he was equated with Enoch as the Scribe of God, could be termed one of the Bene Elohim. And, of course, he would fit the description of religious leader (one of the ahbar of the Qur'an 9:31) whom the Jews had exalted[3]

The Islamic exegetes have mentioned that there existed a community of Jews in Yemen who considered Ezra as son of God. Hirschberg says in Encyclopaedia Judaica :

H. Z. Hirschberg proposed another assumption, based on the words of Ibn Hazm, namely, that the 'righteous who live in Yemen believed that 'Uzayr was indeed the son of Allah.' According to other Muslim sources, there were some Yemenite Jews who had converted to Islam who believed that Ezra was the messiah. For Muhammad, Ezra, the apostle (!) of messiah, can be seen in the same light as the Christian saw Jesus, the messiah, the son of Allah.[4]

George Sale makes an interesting comment concerning the Muslim as well as Judeo-Christian opinion on this issue.

This grievous charge against the Jews, the commentators endeavour to support by telling us, that it is meant of some ancient heterdox Jews, or else of some Jews of Medina; who said so for no other reason, than for that the law being utterly lost and forgotten during the Babylonish captivity, Ezra having been raised to life after he had been dead one hundred years, dictated the whole anew unto the scribes, out of his own memory; at which they greatly marvelled, and declared that he could not have done it, unless he were the son of God. Al-Beidawi adds, that the imputation must be true, because this verse was read to the Jews and they did not contradict it; which they were ready enough to do in other instances.
That Ezra did restore not only the Pentateuch, but also the other books of the Old Testament, by divine revelation, was the opinion of several of the Christian fathers, who are quoted by Dr.Prideaux, and of some other writers; which they seem to have first borrowed from a passage in that very ancient apocryphal book, called in our English Bible, the second book of Esdras. Dr. Prideaux tells us, that herein the Fathers attributed more to Ezra, than the Jews themselves, which he laboured much in, and went a great way in the perfecting of it. It is not improbable however, that the fiction came originally from the Jews, though they be now of another opinion, and I cannot fix it upon them by any direct proof. For, not to insist upon the testimony of the Mohammedans (which yet I cannot but think of some little weight in a point of this nature,) it is allowed by the most sagacious critics, that the second book of Ezra was written by a Chrisitian indeed, but yet one who had been bred a Jew, and was intimately acquainted with the fables of the Rabbins; and the story itself is perfectly in the taste and was of thinking of those men.[5]

Last but not the least, a Christian writer also proposed that Muhammad (P) got the information of Jews exalting Ezra to son of God from the Samaritans who said the Ezra had acted presumptuously and had changed the old divine alphabetical character of the holy Books of the Law - a character still used and revered to this day by rapidly dwindling Samaritan community.[6] This author concludes in a rather unchristian way that:

But it is not at all unlikely that the source of Mohammed's indictment of the Jews is to be found among the Samaritans or amongst Arab tribesmen of Samaritan strain. If we found in Samaritan literature the opposite belief that Ezra (or Uzair) was the son of Satan, we would be well-nigh sure of having settled the matter.[7]

And Allah knows best!

bob_chasm · Oct 9th, 2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Code_Red

Jews are monothiest just like muslims. Why it is written in quran that they believe uzair is son of God ? And who was Uzair btw

and what was the story behind all this.

Plese shed some light if someone knows about the background. thanks

Code, my take on this passage is a little differerent. The verse says that the Christians say ... and Jews say .... . This verse is not criticizing the Arabs for saying Jesus and Uzair are the son of God. As such we have to understand what the Christians and Jews mean by the phrase son of God and why Allah is telling them not to say it. I believe the Quran is demonstrating Allah's knowledge of language and culture of people other than the Arabs in this passage. That he understands the distinction between how the phrase son of God, means two different things to these two different people in history. In the case of Christianity, the phrase suggests divinity. So, Allah tells the Christians not to call Jesus the son of God, because he was not divine. To Jews, the phrase 'son of God' refers to a scholar and not a prophet. So, Allah tells the Jews not to call Ezra a son of God because he was not just a scholar, but a prophet. To understand this one has to know that Christians regard Jesus as God and Jews regard Ezra as a scholar but not a prophet and how these people use this phrase. This is something that Allah knew but the Arabs did not.

Code_Red · Oct 10th, 2008, 03:32 PM

^ hmmm

both explaination are quite difficult and complex

Quote:

Originally Posted by STONECOLD

good question....i remember parroting this when i was kid!!!

I agree

i can relate to similar experience as explaination provided to us as child used to paint parallal belief system. but when we grew up we realized they are pole apart. A rude awaikening and a we very sorry state of affairs for us

abdelyuuki · Oct 13th, 2008, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob_chasm

Code, my take on this passage is a little differerent. The verse says that the Christians say ... and Jews say .... . This verse is not criticizing the Arabs for saying Jesus and Uzair are the son of God. As such we have to understand what the Christians and Jews mean by the phrase son of God and why Allah is telling them not to say it. I believe the Quran is demonstrating Allah's knowledge of language and culture of people other than the Arabs in this passage. That he understands the distinction between how the phrase son of God, means two different things to these two different people in history. In the case of Christianity, the phrase suggests divinity. So, Allah tells the Christians not to call Jesus the son of God, because he was not divine. To Jews, the phrase 'son of God' refers to a scholar and not a prophet. So, Allah tells the Jews not to call Ezra a son of God because he was not just a scholar, but a prophet. To understand this one has to know that Christians regard Jesus as God and Jews regard Ezra as a scholar but not a prophet and how these people use this phrase. This is something that Allah knew but the Arabs did not.

Very nicely put!

picoico · Oct 14th, 2008, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Code_Red

Jews are monothiest just like muslims. Why it is written in quran that they believe uzair is son of God ? And who was Uzair btw

and what was the story behind all this.

Plese shed some light if someone knows about the background. thanks

Put simply, Jews, like any other religious group, had sects too. The ones in Mecca and Medina made such a claim.

Code_Red · Oct 14th, 2008, 12:02 PM

^ On that same token Jews can say that :

Muslims believe that Ali is God , and they worship him.

Also muslims worship graves and pray to dead saints !!

What kind of a prophet would teach such obnoxious beliefs ??

If you are going to stick to this particular explaination of quranic claim ( which they ourtright dismiss ) then you will have to face the mirror. Which they will show you.

Sadly muslims pay little or no attention to quran what is revealed for us as an individual and group. In their life time they come accross only those verses which are prudent for their sectarian belief, and carefully tailered explaination of which are bottlefed to them.

It is vital to know the explaination with reasongin and supported evidence of this vital verse specially for those who are living in western society.

ahmadjee · Oct 14th, 2008, 12:08 PM

Cody Bhai, I know of Jews who do not believe in the Messiah or his coming, I know others who do not believe in certain of their prophets while others do. There are Jews who believe Torah is outdated, there are others who think there is no God and consider Jewish heritage as a ethnic thing, rather than religious.

Over centuries Jews many of their tribes went through many different phases. So I believe there is a possibility that one of the tribes of Jews that lived in the days of early Islam believed in Uzair to be son of God.

Fervid · Oct 14th, 2008, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahmadjee

Cody Bhai, I know of Jews who do not believe in the Messiah or his coming, I know others who do not believe in certain of their prophets while others do. There are Jews who believe Torah is outdated, there are others who think there is no God and consider Jewish heritage as a ethnic thing, rather than religious.

Over centuries Jews many of their tribes went through many different phases. So I believe there is a possibility that one of the tribes of Jews that lived in the days of early Islam believed in Uzair to be son of God.

I don't believe what Jews say, I believe they are liars, their religion is based on deception, don't trust them when they say they don't believe Uzair was son of God. Lying is their life style, it's evident, no need to doubt it.

Code_Red · Oct 16th, 2008, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahmadjee

Cody Bhai, I know of Jews who do not believe in the Messiah or his coming, I know others who do not believe in certain of their prophets while others do. There are Jews who believe Torah is outdated, there are others who think there is no God and consider Jewish heritage as a ethnic thing, rather than religious.

Over centuries Jews many of their tribes went through many different phases. So I believe there is a possibility that one of the tribes of Jews that lived in the days of early Islam believed in Uzair to be son of God.

The apparent fallacy of your argument/ reasoning lie in the double standards muslim portray when the cry out loud that Islam should not be judged based on what some (misguided) muslims do ( beliefs and practice not sanctioned by holy scripture) Then how come quran which is a book that claims eternal guidance, is accusing whole nation / a religious group of a belief which is obsolete ??? and compare it with a mainstream fundamental belief of a another religious group.

IT is like saying Muslims eat pork and christians eat pork too

^ it does not make sense, does it ?

I believe explaination by bob_chasm is more logical and reasonable. But it can not validated until it is supported with authentic reference and material. I firmly belief that the answer of this puzzle and explaination is contained in holy quran. Also i firmly believe if i want quidance from quran i will get it, sooner or later. This is my personal experience that this book read minds... it provide answers to the seekers, even if you dont know where to look for

picoico · Oct 16th, 2008, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Code_Red

^ On that same token Jews can say that :

Muslims believe that Ali is God , and they worship him.

Well, if the only Muslims they have contact with do in fact worship Hazrat Ali as a god, then yeah. It will be understood to whom they are refering to.

Quote:

What kind of a prophet would teach such obnoxious beliefs ??

What is so obnoxious about them, and it wasn't a belief or a teaching. It was reality among the Jewish tribes of Arabia of the time.

Quote:

If you are going to stick to this particular explaination of quranic claim ( which they ourtright dismiss ) then you will have to face the mirror. Which they will show you.

*Shrugs*, let them...for all I know, that particular sect is defunct, so who will show me what? If contemporary Jews feel offended, they need to get off their arse and read into it a bit more.

Quote:

Sadly muslims pay little or no attention to quran what is revealed for us as an individual and group. In their life time they come accross only those verses which are prudent for their sectarian belief, and carefully tailered explaination of which are bottlefed to them.

Yeah, but what does that have to do with historical realities? Contemporary Muslims distort them...okay...what does that have to do with the Quranic observation?

Quote:

It is vital to know the explaination with reasongin and supported evidence of this vital verse specially for those who are living in western society.

Why is it vital? It was a mere observation, and is a tangential part of the Quranic narrative.

Fervid · Oct 16th, 2008, 02:06 PM

The Jews’ idea that ‘Uzayr is “a son of Allaah”

What does this beginning part of Surah Taubah 9:30 refer to? "The Jews call 'Uzair (Ezra) a son of Allah..." Please answer as thoroughly as possible and feel free to provide references to more detailed and extensive discussions of this matter.

Praise be to Allaah.

When Allaah issued the command to fight the Jews and Christians, in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allaah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”
(al-Tawbah 9:29)

-- He then stated the reason that made it obligatory to fight them, which was their disbelief in Allaah and their shirk – which included their speaking ill of Allaah by attributing a son to Him, when He is the One, the Self-Sufficient Master, He begets not, nor was He begotten, and there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him. The Jews said that ‘Uzayr is a son of Allaah, and the Christians said that the Messiah was a son of Allaah. ‘Uzayr was a righteous man from among the Children of Israel, who was venerated by the Jews. It was said that the reason why he was venerated was that he had memorized the Tawraat (Torah), so the Jews, or some of them, exaggerated about him and claimed that he was a son of Allaah. So Allaah condemned them for that and told them that by saying this they were doing the same as the mushrikeen who said that the angels were daughters of Allaah. The Christians also spoke ill of Allaah when they said that the Messiah was a son of Allaah; by doing so they resembled the Jews and mushrikeen. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And the Jews say: ‘Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allaah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allaah. That is their saying with their mouths, resembling the saying of those who disbelieved aforetime. Allaah’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!”

[al-Tawbah 9:30]

See Tafseer Ibn Katheer, the second part of his tafseer of Soorat al-Tawbah; Tafseer Ibn Jareer; Tafseer al-Qurtubi.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan al-Barraak

Islam Question and Answer - The Jews’ idea that ‘Uzayr is “a son of Allaah”

PyariCgudia · Oct 16th, 2008, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fervid

I don't believe what Jews say, I believe they are liars, their religion is based on deception, don't trust them when they say they don't believe Uzair was son of God. Lying is their life style, it's evident, no need to doubt it.

Wow, you know what? You need to cut out this hate rhetoric. Its because of intolerant and unknowledgeable and ignorant comments like this, that we muslims are bearing the brunt of discrimination, suspicion, and fear around the world.

Why don't you try and actually treat human beings like actual human beings, just as you'd want to be treated? Maybe you might not agree with them, but you should be secure in your own beliefs that attacking other people and making up false claims about them should be something you really don't need to do to feel better about yourself.

Absolutely ridiculous that in this day and age, we still have people preaching hate on the internet, and moreover, long gone are the days apparently when things like this would be edited out by forum moderators.

bob_chasm · Oct 19th, 2008, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Code_Red

I believe explaination by bob_chasm is more logical and reasonable. But it can not validated until it is supported with authentic reference and material. I firmly belief that the answer of this puzzle and explaination is contained in holy quran. Also i firmly believe if i want quidance from quran i will get it, sooner or later. This is my personal experience that this book read minds... it provide answers to the seekers, even if you dont know where to look for

Quote:

Originally Posted by Code_Red

I believe explaination by bob_chasm is more logical and reasonable. But it can not validated until it is supported with authentic reference and material. I firmly belief that the answer of this puzzle and explaination is contained in holy quran. Also i firmly believe if i want quidance from quran i will get it, sooner or later. This is my personal experience that this book read minds... it provide answers to the seekers, even if you dont know where to look for

code, one can get a good sense of how the term Son of God is used in Judaism in this article:

Son of God - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the Jewish bible the term Son of God is used to describe someone who is close to God, such as:

1. Saint.

2. Messiah (priest).

3. King of Israel.

So Son of God = Messiah, King, Pir etc

Here it needs to be understood that these positions were not always held by Prophets in the Jewish Bible. So, a Messiah in Judaism does not have to be a prophet. Since the messianic literature suggests that the messiah was someone who would bring the Jews back to Jerusalem, some Jews believe that Ezra (Uzair) was a messiah priest (not a prophet), who fulfilled the OT prophecies. In this context, the Quran is simply telling these Jews that Uzair, was not the promised messiah.