i am sorry but those people who think Dr Zakir is on the wrong, then fine .... he is on the wrong ... but then those people are also not on the right .... i cannot believe or trust a vdo in which arguments like these are being presented:
"kya ham nizamud-din-auliah ko chor dein, hamari jo 1400 saal ki sufi tradition hai, us ka daman chor dein" ...
hello .... since when was islam sufism? islam clearly contradicts sufism becuz sufism is based upon and talks about losing yourself in the name of God, and Allah clearly opposes madhoshi ... and He only likes those who can keep a healthy, practical and clever balance life and the religion.
and the man who was saying that a person who says that the nabiz are dead after being buried in the ground ... well yes they are ... physically they are .. unless we believe that nabiz were a creature other than humans ... they were also humans, and only had humanly physical and mental capabilities.
but when you say that nabi doesnt die, that only means that he has become immortal through the education and words that he has left behind him, and will be talked about and remember and followed for centuries to come. but otherwise, any nabi will be as dead as any other human being in his physical characteristics.
as for the yazid part ... i need to look into it more ...
i am sorry but those people who think Dr Zakir is on the wrong, then fine .... he is on the wrong ... but then those people are also not on the right .... i cannot believe or trust a vdo in which arguments like these are being presented:
"kya ham nizamud-din-auliah ko chor dein, hamari jo 1400 saal ki sufi tradition hai, us ka daman chor dein" ...
hello .... since when was islam sufism? islam clearly contradicts sufism becuz sufism is based upon and talks about losing yourself in the name of God, and Allah clearly opposes madhoshi ... and He only likes those who can keep a healthy, practical and clever balance life and the religion.
and the man who was saying that a person who says that the nabiz are dead after being buried in the ground ... well yes they are ... physically they are .. unless we believe that nabiz were a creature other than humans ... they were also humans, and only had humanly physical and mental capabilities.
but when you say that nabi doesnt die, that only means that he has become immortal through the education and words that he has left behind him, and will be talked about and remember and followed for centuries to come. but otherwise, any nabi will be as dead as any other human being in his physical characteristics.
as for the yazid part ... i need to look into it more ...
How much do you know about Nizam u deen Aulia?
Quran says "do not call shuhda dead, they are alive....".
Quran says "do not call shuhda dead, they are alive....".
first we need to clearly identify who can be "shaheed"
plus
the shuhda are as much alive as a living person is dead who is far from religion and on the wrong path!
a physically dead person is just dead. it;s the teaching that are left behind, which are clearly coming from God. you cant pray to a man ... and in my view going to mazaars and praying to saints is shirk ... even praying to the Prophet (p.b.u.h) is shirk ... muslims MUST NOT pray to anyone except ALLAH .. that's what we agree on doing when we say the shahada!
first we need to clearly identify who can be "shaheed"
Do you agree that Prophets are better than Shuhdah???
Quote:
Originally Posted by farrah
plus
the shuhda are as much alive as a living person is dead who is far from religion and on the wrong path!
God says in Quran "you have no idea of their lives" so we shouldn't be assuming things about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by farrah
a physically dead person is just dead. it;s the teaching that are left behind, which are clearly coming from God.
Not the prophets.
Other supporting evidence for the hadith is found in what Abu Dawud transmits regarding the hadith of Abu Hurayra, which contains, �Pray for me, for surely, your prayers reach me wherever you are.� It's chain of narrators is rigorously authenticated. Abu Al-Shaykh transmits it in Kitab Al-Thawab with a good chain of narrators with the wording, �Whoever prays for me at my grave, I hear him, and whoever prays for me remotely, it is imparted to me.� Ibn Khuzayma and others have rigorously authenticated what is in Abu Dawud and Al-Nasa'i, on the authority Aws Ibn Aws (who promotes it), regarding the virtue of Friday, �'Increase in your prayers for me in it, for truly, your prayers are presented before me.' They said, 'Oh Messenger of Allah, how will our prayers be presented before you when you have decomposed?' He said, 'Allah has forbidden the earth to consume the bodies of prophets.'�
you cant pray to a man ... and in my view going to mazaars and praying to saints is shirk ... even praying to the Prophet (p.b.u.h) is shirk ... muslims MUST NOT pray to anyone except ALLAH .. that's what we agree on doing when we say the shahada!
No one prays to prophets or aulia....may be a few who are ignorant. You are right we should only pray to Allah but we can also pray to Allah through His names, our good deeds, Prophet Muhammad(SAW) and pious people.
i am sorry but those people who think Dr Zakir is on the wrong, then fine .... he is on the wrong ... but then those people are also not on the right .... i cannot believe or trust a vdo in which arguments like these are being presented:
"kya ham nizamud-din-auliah ko chor dein, hamari jo 1400 saal ki sufi tradition hai, us ka daman chor dein" ...
hello .... since when was islam sufism? islam clearly contradicts sufism becuz sufism is based upon and talks about losing yourself in the name of God, and Allah clearly opposes madhoshi ... and He only likes those who can keep a healthy, practical and clever balance life and the religion.
and the man who was saying that a person who says that the nabiz are dead after being buried in the ground ... well yes they are ... physically they are .. unless we believe that nabiz were a creature other than humans ... they were also humans, and only had humanly physical and mental capabilities.
but when you say that nabi doesnt die, that only means that he has become immortal through the education and words that he has left behind him, and will be talked about and remember and followed for centuries to come. but otherwise, any nabi will be as dead as any other human being in his physical characteristics.
as for the yazid part ... i need to look into it more ...
habsolutely right sis :]
O Allβh, How can I call you when I am but a sinner Yet how can I not call unto you when you are the Most Benevolent
To all my shi'te & also to sunni friends.. there are fundamental theological differences b/w Shi'tes & Sunnis regarding the status of Ahl-Baits & there are differences within the Sunni Sect itself...(I am sure there might be differences within Shi'tes Sects also but i m not very knowledgable on that), these differences exists for over 12-13 centuries..., I think it is stupid for us to debate on this & try to prove which side is on the righteous position -Something far more knowledgable & sincere scholars of both our sects could not achieve for 13 centuries. We should rather focus on coexisting & living in peace based on so many shared aspects of our belief.
some of the views of Dr Zakir Naik which are being analyzed - they are not his personal views that he invented himself - they are based on certain established doctrines within the Sunni-Sects & shared by many prominent Sunni Scholars for over a millenia, disagree with him ok - but dont deamonize him for this
you cant pray to a man ... and in my view going to mazaars and praying to saints is shirk ... even praying to the Prophet (p.b.u.h) is shirk ... muslims MUST NOT pray to anyone except ALLAH .. that's what we agree on doing when we say the shahada!
No Muslim prays to any man. This is typical wahabbi fitna
Well I think Imentioned this in another thread but speakers such as Dr. Naik, Farhat Hashmi, etc., are very good in terms of attracting a crowd and getting them hooked. The only problem is that because they are not qualified scholars, or muftis, I would be a little careful in accepting their message. The criticisms have come from the fact that perhaps basic knowledge of the deen is there but their analysis and interpretation is questionable as they do not have the necessary training to back up their speeches.
Happiness often sneaks in through a door you didn't know you left open...
Do you agree that Prophets are better than Shuhdah???
God says in Quran "you have no idea of their lives" so we shouldn't be assuming things about that.
Not the prophets.
Other supporting evidence for the hadith is found in what Abu Dawud transmits regarding the hadith of Abu Hurayra, which contains, �Pray for me, for surely, your prayers reach me wherever you are.� It's chain of narrators is rigorously authenticated. Abu Al-Shaykh transmits it in Kitab Al-Thawab with a good chain of narrators with the wording, �Whoever prays for me at my grave, I hear him, and whoever prays for me remotely, it is imparted to me.� Ibn Khuzayma and others have rigorously authenticated what is in Abu Dawud and Al-Nasa'i, on the authority Aws Ibn Aws (who promotes it), regarding the virtue of Friday, �'Increase in your prayers for me in it, for truly, your prayers are presented before me.' They said, 'Oh Messenger of Allah, how will our prayers be presented before you when you have decomposed?' He said, 'Allah has forbidden the earth to consume the bodies of prophets.'�
No one prays to prophets or aulia....may be a few who are ignorant. You are right we should only pray to Allah but we can also pray to Allah through His names, our good deeds, Prophet Muhammad(SAW) and pious people.
first of all ... you quoted: "Whoever prays for me at my grave"
and then you wrote: " No one prays to prophets or aulia....may be a few who are ignorant"
what is your description of a shaheed?
and the things that you've written in bold ... i am sorry i have to disagree with it completely. this is what t he christians do ... pray through someone ... like maria, or jesus ... only God knows if the earth has been forbidden to consume bodies of the prophets, cuz i cant go digging ... i cant believe a hadith saying "go pray at my grave" ... why?
the Prophets didnt allow people to come pray to them when they were alive ... they didnt take chits from people with their requests to pray for everyone to Allah ... so why when they are "dead"?
the prophets taught us to pray to Allah becuz only He can hear out prayers, and we can only ask Him for mercy ...
you have the right to disagree with me ... but to me ... i consider it shirk to go pray to anyone/anything else ... even if it is written in hadith ... becuz hadith is not a higher word than the Quran ...
islamic history is full of incidents where the Prophet(p.b.u.h) was faced with arguments like ... how can we leave the traditions of our ancestors and start following the God that you have brought to us ...
and now i hear the same thing hear again ... as if we've gone way back before islam ... and saying things like ... kaisay chor dein nizam-ud-aulia ka daman aur 1400 ki tradition ... i mean .. come on!
first of all ... you quoted: "Whoever prays for me at my grave"
and then you wrote: " No one prays to prophets or aulia....may be a few who are ignorant"
what is your description of a shaheed?
and the things that you've written in bold ... i am sorry i have to disagree with it completely. this is what t he christians do ... pray through someone ... like maria, or jesus ... only God knows if the earth has been forbidden to consume bodies of the prophets, cuz i cant go digging ... i cant believe a hadith saying "go pray at my grave" ... why?
the Prophets didnt allow people to come pray to them when they were alive ... they didnt take chits from people with their requests to pray for everyone to Allah ... so why when they are "dead"?
the prophets taught us to pray to Allah becuz only He can hear out prayers, and we can only ask Him for mercy ...
you have the right to disagree with me ... but to me ... i consider it shirk to go pray to anyone/anything else ... even if it is written in hadith ... becuz hadith is not a higher word than the Quran ...
islamic history is full of incidents where the Prophet(p.b.u.h) was faced with arguments like ... how can we leave the traditions of our ancestors and start following the God that you have brought to us ...
and now i hear the same thing hear again ... as if we've gone way back before islam ... and saying things like ... kaisay chor dein nizam-ud-aulia ka daman aur 1400 ki tradition ... i mean .. come on!
first of all ... you quoted: "Whoever prays for me at my grave"
and then you wrote: " No one prays to prophets or aulia....may be a few who are ignorant"
what is your description of a shaheed?
and the things that you've written in bold ... i am sorry i have to disagree with it completely. this is what t he christians do ... pray through someone ... like maria, or jesus ... only God knows if the earth has been forbidden to consume bodies of the prophets, cuz i cant go digging ... i cant believe a hadith saying "go pray at my grave" ... why?
the Prophets didnt allow people to come pray to them when they were alive ... they didnt take chits from people with their requests to pray for everyone to Allah ... so why when they are "dead"?
the prophets taught us to pray to Allah becuz only He can hear out prayers, and we can only ask Him for mercy ...
you have the right to disagree with me ... but to me ... i consider it shirk to go pray to anyone/anything else ... even if it is written in hadith ... becuz hadith is not a higher word than the Quran ...
islamic history is full of incidents where the Prophet(p.b.u.h) was faced with arguments like ... how can we leave the traditions of our ancestors and start following the God that you have brought to us ...
and now i hear the same thing hear again ... as if we've gone way back before islam ... and saying things like ... kaisay chor dein nizam-ud-aulia ka daman aur 1400 ki tradition ... i mean .. come on!
Praying "for" someone and praying "to" someone are two very different things.
Don 't you pray for your dead relatives?
You didn't answer my question. Do you agree that Prophets are better than Shuhda?
If you are rejecting all the ahadith I've quoted then may Allah help you, I have nothing else to say to you.
snowdrop ... i am not rejecting all hadith ... perhaps only the ones you've hand-picked ...
and no i dont pray for my dead relatives .... because my prayers cant help them ... because everyone will have to answer for whatever they've done in their life ... and just because i pray for them will not reduce any of their sins or increase any of their good deeds .... i can just say that God have mercy on them ... that's it ...
and in this sense ... how is it helping me to pray for saints on their graves? cuz saints are supposed to be good people anyways ... they've attained their heaven (only Allah knows best) ...
and i cant answer your question if Prophets are better than shuhda because i dont know your definition of a shaheed ...
everybody thinks they are right ... that's what i am doing, that's what you are doing ... so before you say this to someone: "may Allah help you, I have nothing else to say to you." ... say this to yourself first ....
and we should be ashamed of ourselves to be fighting over ethnicities ... that's what we are doing ... trying to save our sect ... but we dont care about Islam as a whole .... it was supposed to unite ...
^ you were the one coming around propagating sainthood to me ... keep doing it then, and dont pinpoint others of how their knowledge is less if they dont do the same as you ...
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