inuit

Do you have a concept of Sadqa e Jarriya. Hajj e Badal, Namaz e Janaza etc

Snowdrop

Weird, isn't it?

Snowdrop

I'm sorry that I tried to argue with you. Learnt my lesson.

TayyebZ

Has anyone here actually tried watching the video Br. Jafri has posted?

inuit

the above is also debate able !:-) not kidding.

we understand two things from the above statement.

1- Allah has made the Haq (truth) so difficult to achieve. no debate, no study, or no any discussion can resolve these issues. nausobillah nausobillah the blame goes to Allah.

2- Blames goes to Ullema, they are not capable enough to resolve the issues with either debate, discussion, and /or writing books.

What i believe; "Haq khool kar byan kar diya gya hay." - General public dont have the ability of comparison and many of the Ullema e Suu; Try to hide the truth to keep their business up and running.

the last part, i agree with that, that is we should focus on coexisting & living in peace based on so many shared aspects of our belief. and keep these discussion to the upper level.

inuit

zakir naik debate with Syed Ali Raza jan Kazmi part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr8Pe1Ll56w

Syed Ali Raza jan Kazmi and debate with zakir naik part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S54B2u6bWME

Ali Raza Jan Kazmi part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OovrOwYb0Uk

Snowdrop

I think Shias are over reacting. You shia guys are allowed to curse all the Sahaba(ra) that majority of muslim respect but when it comes to someone saying mercy be upon Yazid you wage a war against him. Is that fair?

Maverick_27

i agree and i have seen many of shia book and the wording they used for sahaba is so disgusting.

i think histrory of karabala is question mark for the historian. our historain has not documented the whole incident like most shia presents . Even i have noticed contradiction of Allam Talib Johri in his majlis that is telecasted on PTV.

further in my personal opinion shia ppl give too much importance to karabala event by presenting it a unique event. there are hundred of incidents in the history where muslims sacrificed their life for Islam. This is not the only event in the history of islam of this nature. what about the Hazrat Hamza shahadat who prophet called Syeddu Suhada. and what abdullah bin Zubair who fought wid yazid focre and got shaheed.

why we dont see the mourning for him coz he was son of Hazrat Asma Binte Abu Bakar.

i mean this attitude is questionable ?

Jafri

Look, all I want to say is that I agree with you. Some Shias, mostly the Pakistani ones really go overboard with Hub-e-Ali. They should know Allah is Ali's God. Likewise for the sahaba, they were close to the Prophet (saw), closer than any of us will ever be, but the sources are ALL in your own books - but you just deny EVERYTHING wholeheartedly and say WE made the ahadith up ourselves.

Yes, the Prophet (saw) called Hamza sayyed us shuhahda, he cried over his death too, so do you think we cannot cry over Imam Hussain (as)? I posted a hadith from your own source of Prophet Mohammad (saw) crying about Imam Hussain (as) and Karbala on his birth in Farrah's topic about marrying in Muharram, WAIT, did I make that up as well?. We don't deny Hamza as Sayyed us shuhada at all. Do you even know what sayyed us shuhada means? The title is not only limited to 1 human being. He was killed in the name of Islam - therefore a shaheed, and he was of such a high rank ya3ni sayyed us shuhahda. Now what the hell do you think Karbala was? Are you one of them too that says The people of Imam Hussain (as) killed him? If that is so, why didn't the Sunnis at that time come to aid him and go to Karbala - why did the Shias go?

TayyebZ

As Br. Jafri explained, some do go overboard. But remember Followers of Ahlulbayt (as) don't call just anyone a Sahaba.

Pagluu

Shia position on the righteous Sahaba is exactly what Imam Ali (as) said about them in Nahjul Balgha sermon 96;

"I have seen the companions of the Prophet but I do not find anyone resembling them. They began the day with dust on the hair and face (in hardship of life) and passed the night in prostration and standing in prayers. Sometimes they put down their foreheads and sometimes their cheeks. With the recollection of their resurrection it seemed as though they stood on live coal. It seemed that in between their eyes there were signs like knees of goats, resulting from long prostrations. When Allah was mentioned their eyes flowed freely till their shirt collars were drenched. They trembled for fear of punishment and hope of reward as the tree trembles on the day of stormy wind." ref: http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/96.htm

What have "your historians" documentated about Karbala?

Thats your personal opinion, and with all due respect, its very different from what Allah (swt) and Prophet (saww) has ordered us to do.

Are you suggesting Abdullah Ibn Zubair was same in stature to Imam Al-Hussain (as)?

inuit

This is a misguiding statement;
the word ALL is not correct here.
neither shia curse ALL sahaba(AS) nor Sunnies do respect ALL sahaba.
Shia curse curse only those who deviated from the right path in their point of view.
and Sunni dont respect only those who were deviated from the right path in their point of view.
Shia and Sunni do have one thing in common; both of them do care for The Right Path. however both of them interpreter it differently.

Now instead of just giving reference from Sunni books they are printing the real image from the those books with the title page so ppl can see. They make the offer that they can show these book on demand.

This act of Shias tell us a thing that whatever wording they are using in their books is actually showing the mirror from Sunni books. isnt it? many of the Sunni scholars said that they should fix the problem books, in other words "tahreef". which is another non-sense act.

alleast you agreed that somebody else fought aginst yazied and got the status of Shahadat. Shahdat of ibine Zubair was not the only incident, you are forgetting the sadest event of Hurra. I would advise you to back to the history books and read about Hurra. how many Sahabas were killed and how many of their daughter were rapped and got pregnant in that course.

Why karbala and the Ashura is important, there are certain reasons. some of them are ask follows.

Imam Hussain is among those "Members of the Prophet's household" whom Allah has promised a complete purification...
Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the (Prophet's) House! and to purify you, a (thorough) purifying. (Quran, 33:33)

Imam Hussain is among those blessed members of the Prophet's household, whom all the Muslims have been ordered to love, to an extent that love for them has been equated with the "reward" of Prophet Muhammad's services to us....

"Say (O Muhammad!): I do not ask of you any reward (or fee) for it (my service to you) but love for my near relatives" (Quran, 42:23)

Cause of important but the most important is WHO is fighting for that cause.

When Shia mourn for Sayyed usShoohada. the mourn for every shaheed. however look at the cause first. It should not be Fitna, it should not be for one's own interest.

samaffu

Assalam alekum,

This debate is going too hot and deviating from the topic. It was started on Dr. Zakir Naik and now it's between Shia & Sunnis.

Before I say anything, I would like to seek forgiveness of Allah if I say anything wrong.

Now coming to the topic, everyone is debating this is correct that is wrong. Why don't anyone give any reference of Quran or Sahi Hadith for any of their statements? Either it is supporting to pray for Prophets & Ulema or not to pray for them. (I am not saying pray to them; cause it will be worshipping them which is Shirk).

Dr. Zakri Naik is a very influential personality. I have visited 2 of his lectures recently. And I think he is a Daee. Cause whatever he says, he gives reference of Quran. And about other religions, he does comparative research which is a good thing to answer our non-muslim brothers & sisters. And I think he is capable of answering any Question of any non-muslim person. For example, he showed muslims as superior by proving that we Muslims are far better than Chrisitians when it comes to believing Jesus (Isa AS) and his teachings.

I also viewed the lecture of Rajabali. Mashallah, what a personality. Allah has given him hidayath. Truly his each & every word in this lecture is truth. He proved that by visiting Dargah or graves of Prophets & Ulemas, we are showing our affection, our love for them. But we are not worshipping them. If anyone thinks that visiting Mohammed (SAWS) mazar and praying to Allah for our forgiveness is Shirk, then why do we recite Durood in beginning & ending of our Duas. Why do we always send Durood on beloved Muhammed SAWS and his family??

Come on my dear wise friends, why are we arguing on something which is so clear? Can't we follow the one word of Allah i.e., Quran. Can't we follow the teachings of our prophet Muhammed SAWS i.e., his Hadiths?

First let's make our Salat perfect. Let's make our soul clear of all sins.

May Allah give us his blessings and right path of Islam. (Ameen)

Ma Mooli

Shias have a lot of respect for people they consider sahaba - their definition is selective depending on the behaviour and character of the people, and not merely someone who has simply met the Prophet. The title of a shahabi has certain standards that is only for the genuine, and that became clear right after the Prophet (saw) passed away.

well thank God for the shia historians, if it werent for them, we'd be rooting for yazid and his likes. Its quite obvious certain historian had very little affinity for the family of the Prophet, thier affinity seems to have stopped at the wives.

Shias mourn for all who were martyred at kerbala, but more so the Ahl ul Bayt, as they were/are the leaders of authority designated by the Prophet (saw) after him, and specifcally targeted by the opressive caliphs at the time.

In my personal opinion people who down play the relevance of kerbala in our daily lives are slightly ignorant of the symbolic teachings of kerbala, and are very vulnerable in straying off track. These are the same people who end up questioning the motives of Imam Hussain, and considering Yazid and his llikes on the right (i.e. Naik).

We dont just mourn 'for' Imam Hussain (as) marytydom per se, we mourn to dissociate ourselves from the enemy, and assert our convictions with the banners of Islam. That is the powerful ideology that is the recipe for the strength of Islam.

Save4mShirk

Well i think is this is the reason the you know Battle of Bassorah right? you know then Bebi aisha (R.A.U.H) was on a came when under the command of Hazrath Ali a man came and cut the legs of the camel and she fell? you know bebe Aisha (R.A.U.H) is mother of all belivers? this is what quran says so what should we say Hazrath ALI then? let me tell you some thing any war not on Allah's cause is not jihad! you fight for kashmir or u fight for money it is not jihad! go see how many sahabs where bucherd by muslims itself! go see how muslims started to become evil after the prophet Muhammed P.B.U.H.

Save4mShirk

He said Mangna(to ask!) not manna (to belive!)

Save4mShirk

what dose quran sau in chapter1 : 4 "to you we pray and ask for help" but you are taking Phropets name or some pios people so dnt read the sure in ur prayers insted read something from the pous people.

Save4mShirk

Well i think is this is the reason the you know Battle of Bassorah right? you know then Bebi aisha (R.A.U.H) was on a came when under the command of Hazrath Ali a man came and cut the legs of the camel and she fell? you know bebe Aisha (R.A.U.H) is mother of all belivers? this is what quran says so what should we say Hazrath ALI then? let me tell you some thing any war not on Allah's cause is not jihad! you fight for kashmir or u fight for money it is not jihad! go see how many sahabs where bucherd by muslims itself! go see how muslims started to become evil after the prophet Muhammed P.B.U.H.

Save4mShirk

[QUOTE=barqun;6743996]Salaam plz DO NOT listen to zakir neik. He is disrespectful of Our Dear Prohphet (Sallalaho Alahey Wasulum) and Ouliya (Saints). What muslim can stand such a person!!! He has recently been banned in India. Love and Respect for our Dear Prophet (Sallalaho Alahey Wasulum) is the core of our Eman. Please save your Eman and save others.

1) profe from quran or hadith that it is allowed to ask prophet muhammed PBUH in dua or pray to him. as praying for him is correct but praying to him or asking to him? prove it form quran and hadith.

2) Did prophet muhammed PBUH allowed you to go to dargas and babas? if yes please quran and hadith

3) chapter 1:4 "you we pray and you we ask for help" dnt read this sura not for you as you do against it!

4) Sura fathir: 10-30 " you can't make those hear who are in graves"! dnt belive in this ayath as you dnt follow it!

5) those who belive in ayaath which benefit them and reject the rest are not belivers! Jugeg ur self!

6)" O muhammed PBUH you shall die and your followers too" Quran

7) "you cnt guide then your duty id to warn them"

8) "you dnt know what is going to happen to you on the day of jugment or your followers.........."

9)chapter1 "...Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath(jews) is brought down, nor of those who go astray(christians)" you know why? yes because they made the prophet near god and some made the prophet a part or son of god " astakfirullah!!!!!!

rest if up to you

Hadthit " pary as you see me praying" i wounder who did the prophet ask himself

Save4mShirk

How many daughters did Prophet Muhammed PBUH have? y only bebe Fatimah(R.A.U.H) is well known in shia's are the rest not worthy to remember?