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    1. #1
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      Pakistani immigrants are developing a bad reputation in UK. Riots, murders, fighting with blacks. These are not good developments.

      Much like Hispanics in USA who are hard working and family oriented, Pakistanis are the same in UK. But some members of the Hispanic community has dwelled into crime like the Cuban Mob in Miami, the Mexican Mafia in Los Angeles, El Salvadorian MS-13 Gangs in Washington DC, and Columbian Drug Lords in New York City.

      Pakistanis have become the Hispanics of UK and are openly going at it with Black gangsters much like the Hispanic and Black gang wars in USA.

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...ds/4992966.stm


      Isaiah Young-Sam was trying to avoid the rioting in Lozells last October, when he was stabbed in the heart.

      Waqar Ahmed, 26, Azhil Khan, 23, and Afzal Khan, 22, from Handsworth, had denied murder. They were told they would serve a minimum of 25 years.

      The judge said Isaiah was killed for no other reason than his skin colour.

      Mob violence

      Passing sentence, Mr Justice Mackay said: "The four men (Isaiah, his brother and two friends) were set upon because they were Afro-Caribbean and for no other reason.

      "They had done nothing to these defendants and done nothing to incur or justify hostility.

      "What led to the death of Isaiah Young-Sam was the colour of his skin."

      The defendants were fuelled by the mob violence which they could have resisted, he added.


      My parents, my brother and myself will never come to terms with the vicious attack and murder of Isaiah
      Kavina Young-Sam, Isaiah's sister

      Isaiah's mother, Murna McLean, described his killers as "animals".

      There were cries of "they're innocent" from the public gallery as the jury returned its unanimous verdict on Monday.

      Mr Justice McKay warned members of the defendants' families they would be asked to leave if they continued to call out.

      The court heard how two or three cars pulled up in front of the victim and his friends as they made their way through back streets of Lozells.

      A group of men wearing hoodies and bandanas got out and chased them. Mr Young-Sam, a computer analyst for Birmingham City Council, fell behind and was attacked.

      The defendants were also convicted, and given 10 years to run concurrently, for attacking Mr Young-Sam's friend, Locksley Byfield, who suffered a non life-threatening stab wound to the backside in the incident which took place during the evening of 22 October, 2005.

      The jury was told how the defendants went to Huddersfield just hours after the attack and returned to Birmingham the next day where they booked one-way tickets to Pakistan.

      Isaiah Young-Sam
      Isaiah Young-Sam died on a night of riots in Birmingham
      They were stopped in Dubai en route to Pakistan and returned to Britain where they were arrested.

      They claimed a fourth man, who cannot be named, wielded the knife which killed Mr Young-Sam.

      In mitigation, their defence barristers said they were men of previous good character who got caught up in the contagious atmosphere of escalating community tensions.

      Kavina Young-Sam, 22, Isaiah's sister, said her brother was a kind, fun-loving, humble and respectful young man who always gave off a pleasant vibe.

      She said: "His interests included going to the gym, leisure time on his computer and listening to music.

      "One of his more serious interests was in his Bible, which had a big impact on how he lived his life and how he dealt with others in such a fair and positive manner."

      Rape allegation

      She added: "My parents, my brother and myself will never come to terms with the vicious attack and murder of Isaiah and cannot understand how people could take the life of such an innocent young man."

      The disturbances in Lozells, said to be the worst in the area for 20 years, were thought to have been sparked by rumours alleging a West Indian girl had been raped by a gang of Asian men.


      Police, who made appeals for the alleged victim to come forward, later said there was no evidence to suggest any rape had occurred.

      Det Ch Insp Matthew Ward, who has led the investigation into Mr Young-Sam's murder said the inquiry was still ongoing.

      Ten people had been arrested so far and officers are still looking into the circumstances of his stabbing.

      Police are also continuing their investigations into the riot as a whole.

      Meanwhile, the chief executive of Birmingham's Race Equality and Community Cohesion Council Dr Derrick Campbell says tensions still exist in Lozells.

      He said: "We have seen a very sophisticated way of operating by the Asian community who have got their act together, mobilised themselves, have established their businesses and they have done quite well.

      "The black community particularly feel that they have been re-colonised by the Asian community."
      [SIZE=2] [/SIZE]

    2. #2
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      so wats u r point? wherever we go we create problems?

    3. #3
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      While I am not condoning the act of these guys, do you even know what happened in Lozell. Who started it and who were the initial victims. It was started by a pirate black run radio station by spreading a lie, which led not only to black mobs attacking Asian shops, they also desecrated Muslim graves in the nearby cemetery. Making sweeping statements like you have done in your opening sentence serves no purpose at all. These guys got what they deserved, but don't go around painting a picture as if the whole community is like that.
      Last edited by ehsan; May 23rd, 2006 at 01:57 PM.

    4. #4
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      Pakistanis (perhaps combined with Bengalis) in the UK are almost identical to the Hispanic community in the US in many different ways.

      it is interesting to note that Pakistanis in the US are not like that, but are much more successful.

    5. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by nikhil25
      Pakistanis (perhaps combined with Bengalis) in the UK are almost identical to the Hispanic community in the US in many different ways.

      it is interesting to note that Pakistanis in the US are not like that, but are much more successful.
      Much more successful compared to whom? This is the fault of the parents. They do not instill the values of success in their children. That is exactly how the second generation Mexicans are in the US. Much of the parents fault lies in their own lack of education. Parents who are educated tend to have children that are educated.

    6. #6
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      ^ and what exactly are you trying to say.

    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by NameInUse
      Much more successful compared to whom? This is the fault of the parents. They do not instill the values of success in their children. That is exactly how the second generation Mexicans are in the US. Much of the parents fault lies in their own lack of education. Parents who are educated tend to have children that are educated.
      more successful compared to UK Pakistanis as well as US Hispanics.

      i wouldn't call it a "fault", but certainly education level is a significant factor. A much greater percentage of Pakistani immigrants to the UK went as blue-collar workers as compared to Pakistanis in the US, who, on average, had a higher percentage entering the US either with professional degrees or entered to complete degrees at US universities.

    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by ehsan
      ^ and what exactly are you trying to say.
      How many of the offenders had parents who were doctors or lawyers? I'm simply saying this is because the parents fail to instill the values of success in their children. nikhil25 hit it spot on.

    9. #9
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      interesting.......... Indians are the most successful immigrant group in Uk and USA. In USA they are the richest ethnic group, even richer then Jews. They are also the most educated and with least crime rate both in US and UK. Even in aus, an avg. indian earns 30% more then a avg. aussie and in aus school, indians kids are 2nd only to the chinese students.

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      Desperately waiting for liberal educated class in Muslims to wake up ....

    11. #11
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      From what I know, the people who went to settle from Pakistan in England have always tended to be manual type laborers, not specialist or the like. So they were mostly less educated or under educated. There kids just continued in the same manner. Indians have always tended to be of the profesional and specilist vairety, who instilled the same values in their children. Now you can see the difference in England, where Indians where suits and have 9-5 jobs while Pakistanis hang around looking for jobs or save enough money to open a shop or somthing like that, or otherwise be unemployed. This unemployed undereducated Pakistani has nothing better to do then cause trouble.
      This is what I have been told, could be wrong ofcourse.
      You can see this to some extent in the US aswell... Pakistani college students are far outnumbered by their Indian counterpart. Although, many that do go to higher education excell, even above and beyond the Indians, they simply arent as many.
      Also, I think the drop out rate, atlest in NY among Pakistanis is relatively high, and the rate at which the seek higher education is also very low compared to Indians. So while an Indian student will almost 100 percent go for higher education, a Pakistani will be less likely, and if they do, the Indian will probably go for a higher degree in a much more demanding field. The Pakistanis seem to be satisfied with a Associates in Comp tech or something.

    12. #12
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      See buddy, In my village we run a free school. Most of the kids used to study there, later a Madarsa was opened, and all the Muslim kids shifted to that Madarsa.
      Now when other kids learn modern education, muslims kids learn Quran. What this has led to over last 10 years or so... these educated kids are lawyers/ doctors/ engineers and using new methods in agriculture...
      While Muslim kids are sticking to agriculture and land is getting divided more and more.
      I don't go to village often now, last I visited was around 2 years back. Though based on discussions from my relatives who still live there, its coming out that muslims are feeling left out, and soon there will be a clash... its just waiting to happen.......
      I don't know who to blame...... :-(

    13. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rahul67
      See buddy, In my village we run a free school. Most of the kids used to study there, later a Madarsa was opened, and all the Muslim kids shifted to that Madarsa.
      Now when other kids learn modern education, muslims kids learn Quran. What this has led to over last 10 years or so... these educated kids are lawyers/ doctors/ engineers and using new methods in agriculture...
      While Muslim kids are sticking to agriculture and land is getting divided more and more.
      I don't go to village often now, last I visited was around 2 years back. Though based on discussions from my relatives who still live there, its coming out that muslims are feeling left out, and soon there will be a clash... its just waiting to happen.......
      I don't know who to blame...... :-(
      Thats correct, unfortunately muslims lagged behind in education since the time of British and this led to becoming more and more isolated. Things are now changing, atleast they are changing in Pakistani Madrasas of Punjab. They also teach the government curriculum and many donors have pressurized madrasa administrators to teach science and computer education. Many Madrasas now have full time school teachers and even graduation studies. And more so, many Madrasas are nor being administrated by ordinary people and not by paid Mullahs.

      NWFP still has the same old style (i think, i have no first hand knowledge).
      Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment.

    14. #14
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      Pakistani immigrants are developing a bad reputation in UK. Riots, murders, fighting with blacks. These are not good developments
      I agree that most UK Pakis are less educated compared to US, u people have perhaps not paid attention to what this BBC article says is the cause of riots:



      Meanwhile, the chief executive of Birmingham's Race Equality and Community Cohesion Council Dr Derrick Campbell says tensions still exist in Lozells.
      He said: "We have seen a very sophisticated way of operating by the Asian community who have got their act together, mobilised themselves, have established their businesses and they have done quite well. "The black community particularly feel that they have been re-colonised by the Asian community."

      Mer2 next time read the whole article.
      Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment.

    15. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by NameInUse
      Much more successful compared to whom? This is the fault of the parents. They do not instill the values of success in their children. That is exactly how the second generation Mexicans are in the US. Much of the parents fault lies in their own lack of education. Parents who are educated tend to have children that are educated.
      I agree with this reason, most immigrants from pak or bangladesh were uneducated blue coller workers came from remote villages in Mirpur, AJK Pakistan and Sylhet, Bangladesh during 60's and 70's. the 2nd and 3rd generations of these breed of Pakistanis lack good family grooming from parents cause they couldnt mingle with society very well and while living here they hated the locals and its values , kids get confused by two entirely separate worlds at home and outside. so they grew as wild bushes, some moved to extermism and some moved to other exteremes of western society. some with no future and education became gangsters.

      immigrants in US were mostly educated and professionals, thats the main difference.

      When i moved here i have faced the same situation, there are very rare professional and people I can mingle with of Pakistani background apart from some uni fellows, and find it very hard to have like minded people as friends.

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      Dnt agree with original post. A single murder = all pakis into crime. Somehow I dont think so.

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      Quote Originally Posted by nikhil25
      more successful compared to UK Pakistanis as well as US Hispanics.

      i wouldn't call it a "fault", but certainly education level is a significant factor. A much greater percentage of Pakistani immigrants to the UK went as blue-collar workers as compared to Pakistanis in the US, who, on average, had a higher percentage entering the US either with professional degrees or entered to complete degrees at US universities.

      I agree completely.

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      made a fatal flaw. Who are the immigrants? 2nd and third generation Pakistanis born and bred in UK?

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