^^ I don't give a F about what is technically prohibited or written in some book. All I know is that racism/castism exists in the Islamic world, just like it exists in the Hindu world or the Christian world. Work to fix it rather than pointing out problems with other theories (religions).
^^ I don't give a F about what is technically prohibited or written in some book. All I know is that racism/castism exists in the Islamic world, just like it exists in the Hindu world or the Christian world. Work to fix it rather than pointing out problems with other theories (religions).
Aren't we a little testy? What a way to show emotions!!
The comparison is about the religions.
No one is asking you or forcing you to learn or agree.
You made a wrong and uneducated comment that every religion has caste system or racism......you got the answer. What you do after that its your problem!
We can debate forever on whats technically correct about a religion and throw different interpretations at each other. What matters most is how things are practiced. Shias hate Sunnis, Sunnis hate Shias, Sunnis hate Ahmadis, this is nothing but another form of caste system, just like Catholics and Protestands, just like Brahmins and Dalits. Stop trying to make yourself feel better by magnifying problems in other faiths (the way they are practiced) and work towards making your own community better. We should actually ignore this faith nonsense and work towards making every community better but you are obviously religiously overcharged so go ahead an start in your own turf.
We can debate forever ........overcharged so go ahead an start in your own turf.
Why should we debate forever?
The topic is about one thing and discussion should not be of other.
Your post needs a good answer again but no point to drag this in this thread.
Please read what I wrote in response to your comment. If its not enough then so be it. I can only tell you what is correct. Believing is all up to you.
You were dead wrong when you made a 'universal' comment.
Last edited by deedawar; Aug 9th, 2008 at 09:20 PM.
This discussion is not very correct....The fact is that upper cast Hindus have exploited the low casts for centuries. What is wrong in recognizing this racial attitude.
Today there are near about 50% MPs we have from low casts and some Chief Ministers from low casts are ruling over the sates.
But can it change the profile? I do not think so.....because not only the so-called upper castists, but Hindu athiests and Communists can not cross this cast barrier when they look for marriage proposals for their children.
The real problem is that we are taught of this racial/ casties attitude at a very ealy stage in our childhood by our parents, society etc.
And these feelings always dominate our psych for ever.
Caste systems exist everywhere. It's not a religious thing by core; people make it out to be. It's more a cultural thing where presumed notions of one's well-being or upbringing are used to judge them against others and thus the formation of a pyramid hierarchy.
Caste system is a disease that has been around for a very very long time. And it continues to exist in virtually all societies.
☼Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit☼
☼Appear as you are, Be as you appear.☼ (Rumi)
Muslim sin particular should not comment on the Hindu caste based discrimination without acknowledging their own past when all non-muslims were heavily discriminated based on religion. Even today, non-muslims living in muslim dominated countries are not allowed to practice their religion freely since a number of constraints are placed on them.
Yes, caste discrimination with negativity is bad but religious discrimination is even worse
^ perhaps because the atrocities committed by muslims of other muslim sects as well as non-muslims are worse than whatever injustices were heaped upon lower caste Hindus. So when a muslim starts pointing fingers at Hinduism, it merits special derision
/\/\Islam or Christianity has no place for cast discrimination, and whatever we find in these societies is traditional, whereas many Hindu religious texts endorse cast discrimination.
What is wrong in accepting this fact?
What Muslims usually do that for defending Islam they put up all blame on Muslims and in order to defend Muslims they put up all blame on non-Muslims.
In this thread we are playing the same game.
If we have to fight a disease....first of all we must have guts to recognize it.
Perhaps you are making these statements to avoid the issue in hand and do not want to admit what is presented in this thread.
Do you know why? because this thread was started in 2008 based on some articles published in 2002. Dalits and their problems still do exist with some difference but what do you think the intention of the dumbo who started this thread was, given he is starting it 6 years after the articles? On top of that he comments "let the usual excuses start" .....with such dishonesty being the basis of the thread, what else do you expect? On top of that this mischief is started by a muslim to knock Hindus and so what you get back is being shown errors of Islam.
/\/\Islam or Christianity has no place for cast discrimination, and whatever we find in these societies is traditional, whereas many Hindu religious texts endorse cast discrimination.
What is wrong in accepting this fact?
What Muslims usually do that for defending Islam they put up all blame on Muslims and in order to defend Muslims they put up all blame on non-Muslims.
In this thread we are playing the same game.
If we have to fight a disease....first of all we must have guts to recognize it.
Again we got side tracked.
I have no prblem agreeing with you...even including when you said muslims do defend islam and blame muslims.
I have no problem in saying Islam is the best religion but many muslims are not the best exemplary muslims.
Weaknesses in muslims are of their fault and accepting wrong cultural habits from others or even creating themselves while ignoring their good religious teachings.
Last edited by deedawar; Aug 10th, 2008 at 11:46 PM.
Do you know why? because this thread was started in 2008 based on some articles published in 2002. Dalits and their problems still do exist with some difference but what do you think the intention of the dumbo who started this thread was, given he is starting it 6 years after the articles? On top of that he comments "let the usual excuses start" .....with such dishonesty being the basis of the thread, what else do you expect? On top of that this mischief is started by a muslim to knock Hindus and so what you get back is being shown errors of Islam.
I think its best to point out that and accept and not try to run from it.
Dalits suffer from others and based on their low caste.
Thats not a good thing. Even if the thread was started based on 2002 news. What has anyone showed things have changed since then? Dalits or any low class people........ and even non-hindus do suffer in India.
You can choose not to answer my non-hindus sufferings since it is outside the bound of the thread topic. I will accept it.
BTW: You are crying for 2002 event...what about muslims on daily basis are asked to explain things which happened over 1400 years ago???
The difference is obvious: Muslims do not run away and try to find weaknesses in other religions to defend islam as a religion.
Last edited by deedawar; Aug 11th, 2008 at 12:06 AM.
^^ I don't give a F about what is technically prohibited or written in some book. All I know is that racism/castism exists in the Islamic world, just like it exists in the Hindu world or the Christian world. Work to fix it rather than pointing out problems with other theories (religions).
Even I will agree that castism and racism may exist everywhere in the world, but it is more prevalent in India. Racism and castism are two different concepts. You (more than one individual) can be of the same race (black), and of two different castes (1. Sudra, 2. Vaishyas).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic Stick
We can debate forever on whats technically correct about a religion and throw different interpretations at each other. What matters most is how things are practiced. Shias hate Sunnis, Sunnis hate Shias, Sunnis hate Ahmadis, this is nothing but another form of caste system, just like Catholics and Protestands, just like Brahmins and Dalits. Stop trying to make yourself feel better by magnifying problems in other faiths (the way they are practiced) and work towards making your own community better. We should actually ignore this faith nonsense and work towards making every community better but you are obviously religiously overcharged so go ahead an start in your own turf.
Shia, Sunni, Ahmadi are sects, not castes. It seems as if you don't even know the definition of a caste and a sect. Sunni & Shias may have sectarian differences which is in no way the same as (or another form of) castism.
Caste - social status or position conferred by a system based on class.
Sect - A group sharing a common belief that has broken off from a larger group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VetriVelan
^ perhaps because the atrocities committed by muslims of other muslim sects as well as non-muslims are worse than whatever injustices were heaped upon lower caste Hindus. So when a muslim starts pointing fingers at Hinduism, it merits special derision
So, basically what you are saying is that non-Hindoos committing atrocities is a good enough reason for Hindoos to commit atrocities & conceal them?
Its funny how almost every Indian on this topic brings in irrelevant issues instead of admitting whats hard to swallow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VetriVelan
Do you know why? because this thread was started in 2008 based on some articles published in 2002. Dalits and their problems still do exist with some difference but what do you think the intention of the dumbo who started this thread was, given he is starting it 6 years after the articles? On top of that he comments "let the usual excuses start" .....with such dishonesty being the basis of the thread, what else do you expect? On top of that this mischief is started by a muslim to knock Hindus and so what you get back is being shown errors of Islam.
And whats really funny is that the usual excuses never stopped. Muslims & Islam have nothing to do with this topic, but what is notable is that whichever Hindoo who cannot admit the fact about Daalit discriminations resorts to off-topic issues such as Islam and Muslims. Basically trying to stray from the original discussion to save their faces.
Here is an article (from a recognized authentic source) published in 2007:
UN publishes IHEU submissions on Dalit rights and child marriage
"The Dalits number well over 250 million worldwide and are known as 'the broken people' because they suffer extreme discrimination on the basis of descent and occupation. They constitute 4% of humanity, and are concentrated in Africa and South Asia. In Nigeria there are four million Osu and in Japan there are three million Buraku. However, it is in South Asia that over three quarters of the world's Dalits live: the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has some 2 million Dalits, Nepal's 4 million Dalits make up nearly one-fifth of the country's population and India's 165 million Dalits form about 16% of her population."
I have no prblem agreeing with you...even including when you said muslims do defend islam and blame muslims.
I have no problem in saying Islam is the best religion but many muslims are not the best exemplary muslims.
Weaknesses in muslims are of their fault and accepting wrong cultural habits from others or even creating themselves while ignoring their good religious teachings.
I do not agree with you.
we are not discussing Islam, or else I might have answered you. I just wrote a statement because I found that some Hindus are trying to justify their black holes the way as Muslims often do.
I do not agree with you.
we are not discussing Islam, or else I might have answered you. I just wrote a statement because I found that some Hindus are trying to justify their black holes the way as Muslims often do.
I still agree with the statement you presented and as you presented. If you had a different meaning then you were not clear at all.
/\/\Islam or Christianity has no place for cast discrimination, and whatever we find in these societies is traditional, whereas many Hindu religious texts endorse cast discrimination.
What is wrong in accepting this fact?.
I agreed to that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anjjan
/What Muslims usually do that for defending Islam they put up all blame on Muslims and in order to defend Muslims they put up all blame on non-Muslims..
I agreed to that with clarification from my end as I outlined in my post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anjjan
/In this thread we are playing the same game. .
Agreed to that
Quote:
Originally Posted by anjjan
/If we have to fight a disease....first of all we must have guts to recognize it.
Agreed to that.
Now, where is the discussion about hindus in this post of yours which you talking about below????
Quote:
Originally Posted by anjjan
/I just wrote a statement because I found that some Hindus are trying to justify their black holes the way as Muslims often do. .
Did someone admonish you after you wrote and accepted caste system is in hinduism and not in islam and christianity to make you backtrack your statement???
Here is your other statement which might have gotten you to backtrack your post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by anjjan
/....The fact is that upper cast Hindus have exploited the low casts for centuries. What is wrong in recognizing this racial attitude..
Every one who posted here and now me also, is a loser.
A few dishonest, close minded, hate filled, ignorant, brain washed Pakistanis start a thread against hinduism or India, and many Indians start replying in order to defend hinduism and india (justifiably or unjustifiably), and then a few Indians will then open threads bashing Pakistan. Every one knows the outcome of this thread: more hatred towards each other.
Then why waste the time and energy on it?
Losers!!!!
meri manzil hai andhera...roshan saara jahaan hai....
Who gives a F what the dictionary meaning of SECT and CASTE are and what the differences are? As far as I'm concerned they both serve the same purpose, of dividing our society. Both of them have created animosity and hatred between different sects/castes hence are bad enough.
I don't want to waste my time throwing textual references at you or anyone else with what's written in what ancient book and what is technically correct and endorsed. What matters most is the way it is practiced today. Muslim sects hate and fight with each other just like Hindu castes.
Instead of feeling good about ourselves by pointing out faults in the other system lets try to fix our own system first.
Who gives a F what the dictionary meaning of SECT and CASTE are and what the differences are? As far as I'm concerned they both serve the same purpose, of dividing our society. Both of them have created animosity and hatred between different sects/castes hence are bad enough.
If you defy the dictionary definitions of words and make up your own definitions, then there is no point in debating with you. You've just admitted that you do not care about the authenticity of sources.
They both do not server the same purpose. Either you are not capable of understanding the basic definition or you are just too arrogant to accept it. Sects are a sub-division of religions. Castes are a system of superior/inferior classes. In sects, people do not consider themselves as superior/inferior to others - In castism, people consider others inferior/superior.
Out of the 224 million Christians in the US, in 2002, 52% were Protestants, 24% Catholic, and the rest were of other sects. What kind of animosity & hatred did that create? Nothing compared to castism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic Stick
I don't want to waste my time throwing textual references at you or anyone else with what's written in what ancient book and what is technically correct and endorsed. What matters most is the way it is practiced today. Muslim sects hate and fight with each other just like Hindu castes.
If you want to discuss what is practiced today, there are plenty of threads on this forum pertinent to that. This thread is about castism, so do not try to derail the topic at hand. If you can't handle the posts on this topic, simply refrain from posting.
Sure Muslim sects may fight each other, but their division is not something taken directly out of scriptures. Castism on the other hand is derived directly out of Hindoo scriptures (i.e. Bhagavad Gita). And the problem of sectarian differences is no where as bad as castism, otherwise there would be international organizations addressing this problem every year (like they do with castism).
Your analogy of fighting is pathetic. It doesn't matter how they fight - what matter is what they are fighting over, and castist violence in no way resembles sectarian violence.
Last edited by _Lahore_Ka_Cheetah; Aug 11th, 2008 at 09:27 PM.
If you defy the dictionary definitions of words and make up your own definitions, then there is no point in debating with you. You've just admitted that you do not care about the authenticity of sources.
They both do not server the same purpose. Either you are not capable of understanding the basic definition or you are just too arrogant to accept it. Sects are a sub-division of religions. Castes are a system of superior/inferior classes. In sects, people do not consider themselves as superior/inferior to others - In castism, people consider others inferior/superior.
Out of the 224 million Christians in the US, in 2002, 52% were Protestants, 24% Catholic, and the rest were of other sects. What kind of animosity & hatred did that create? Nothing compared to castism.
If you want to discuss what is practiced today, there are plenty of threads on this forum pertinent to that. This thread is about castism, so do not try to derail the topic at hand. If you can't handle the posts on this topic, simply refrain from posting.
Sure Muslim sects may fight each other, but their division is not something taken directly out of scriptures. Castism on the other hand is derived directly out of Hindoo scriptures (i.e. Bhagavad Gita). And the problem of sectarian differences is no where as bad as castism, otherwise there would be international organizations addressing this problem every year (like they do with castism).
Your analogy of fighting is pathetic. It doesn't matter how they fight - what matter is what they are fighting over, and castist violence in no way resembles sectarian violence.
Mr. OTM,
I never said your definitions are wrong. I never said Casts and Sects are the same thing. I said they both divide our society and cause rifts between sections regardless of if that is endorsed by their respective sources. So all your allegations about me making my own definitions are nonsense and hence negated.
I don't give a F if ancient scribblings from any religion (I don't have much respect for fiction) endorse these divisions. What should matter most is that they create a rift in our societies hence should be discouraged. Comprehende Amigo? This is my last attempt.
Last edited by Magic Stick; Aug 11th, 2008 at 10:41 PM.
