.
   Register   todays posts     faq     calendar    


Go Back   GupShup Forums > Society > World Affairs

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Aug 9th, 2008, 11:03 PM   #31 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 24, 2004 - 1:34 pm
Posts: 1,658
new nick same stuff ;)

strategic interests then and there vs here and now.

just like other leashes attached on upstart kiddies, thats the way the cookie crumbles







Back by public demand..you're now rockin with a one man band
Feel the music and you wonder...is he a Yankee? No I'm a Londoner
Rebel X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 9th, 2008, 11:16 PM   #32 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 7, 2001 - 1:00 am
Posts: 8,674
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_star View Post
So my brave Nato's why you don't send your humanitarian bombers like you did over Serbia in 1999.

NATO, my ass.
You don't back up a player who makes a horribly risky bet. Georgia is going to lose this bet but they aren't going to lose their house.






underthedome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10th, 2008, 01:20 AM   #33 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Riya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1, 2007 - 7:19 pm
Posts: 5,220
Blog Entries: 43
Georgians are known to be traitors. There's a saying in Russian that they'll smile to your face very kindly and as you turn, they'll stab you in the back. That's exactly what they did.

I hope Moscow wins this.







it's the heart afraid of dying, that never learns to dance; It's the dream afraid of waking, that never takes the chance; It's the one who won't be taken, who cannot seem to give; And the soul afraid of dying, that never learns to live.
Riya is offline   Reply With Quote


Old Aug 10th, 2008, 05:25 AM   #34 (permalink)
Banned
 
gesto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 12, 2002 - 1:00 am
Location: South India
Posts: 2,326
A strike on Iran is imminent,in this context?

I think it's improper to negate an idea like this?why?Very clear.Russia has showed off at Georgia.Georgia happens to be a staunch supporter of U.S and vice versa.Now Iran is backed by Russia.If these forces do not support Georgia(U.S and it's allies,they can expect a similar response from Russia on Iran).................






gesto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10th, 2008, 09:31 AM   #35 (permalink)
Channel Manager
 
teggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 15, 2007 - 3:53 am
Posts: 11,398
Blog Entries: 13
Russia is using the foolish act by Georgian president (who got a bit too excited and underestimated the Russian response while overestimating the backing of US/Nato) to make an example out of Georgia for others with such ambitions to see what can/would happen. Georgian President sought to regain Autonomous territory and bring it under the control of Central Govt. (one of his Campaign promises)....unfortunately, it could not materialize.

Funnily enough, President Bush has nothing but words in support of Georgian president.







☼Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit☼
☼Appear as you are, Be as you appear.☼ (Rumi)
My Countdown Counting down to: :whistling:

Last edited by teggy; Aug 10th, 2008 at 09:37 AM.
teggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10th, 2008, 12:03 PM   #36 (permalink)
Member
 
slick_star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 16, 2008 - 4:04 am
Location: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 123
Georgia is better off with the mother Russia.



all hail Stalin.

all hail mother Russia.

all hail communism.







Last edited by slick_star; Aug 10th, 2008 at 12:24 PM.
slick_star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10th, 2008, 12:31 PM   #37 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 7, 2008 - 11:57 am
Posts: 159
Georgian girls are smokingg hott!!! I got my maggic stickk ready for em.

On the topic = Georgia has already given up.






Magic Stick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 12:41 AM   #38 (permalink)
Genius
 
mAd_ScIeNtIsT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 5, 2001 - 7:00 am
Location: Body in Toronto, Canada; Heart in London, UK; Soul in Karachi, Pakistan
Posts: 22,588
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic Stick View Post
On the topic = Georgia has already given up.
No, Georgia is trying to give up and beg for peace. But looks like Vlad "The Impaler" Putin is in no mood to accept surrender. Russia's continuing to pound deeper and deeper inside Georgia.


It really does look like he is trying to send a strong message to any country that Russia considers to be in Russia's sphere of influence, that if you try and align with the West there will be consequences.

Ukraine would do well to pay attention to events in Georgia, lest it continues to try and push for closer ties to NATO and the EU too.







Putting the British into British North America since January 3rd 2005
Gupshup's official Volvo Driver
Scientia imperii decus et tutamen
mAd_ScIeNtIsT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 01:40 AM   #39 (permalink)
Kher Andesh
 
Faisal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 9, 1999 - 3:00 pm
Location: California
Posts: 23,191
Blog Entries: 9
I mean, in all seriousness, does anyone really think that a unipolar world dominated by USA is actually a bright idea? I don't think Russia is a stellar epitome of balance and foresight, but together with China, it will probably help the world being multi-polar where one deranged super power can't mess up whole regions just to avenge an attack on "daddy".







"Let your friends underestimate your virtues. Let your enemies overestimate your faults." - Godfather.
Faisal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 06:27 AM   #40 (permalink)
Banned
 
gesto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 12, 2002 - 1:00 am
Location: South India
Posts: 2,326
To Russian relief,there is going to be no `Jihad' in sight on this issue..






gesto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 07:09 AM   #41 (permalink)
Banned
 
gesto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 12, 2002 - 1:00 am
Location: South India
Posts: 2,326
Russians take South Ossetian capital -DAWN - International; August 11, 2008






gesto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 10:48 AM   #42 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
mercenary2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 12, 2006 - 2:56 am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 8,093
Stalin was from Georgia






mercenary2k is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 11:42 AM   #43 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
psyah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 4, 2007 - 3:53 pm
Posts: 1,712
Correct me if I am wrong but when they start to talk about BTC and AGT in the same breath only then the tension will begin to settle.

http://www.bakuceyhan.org.uk/publica..._report_04.pdf

It seems to me that Russia are upset about the new changes which are driven by the West (i.e. non-Russians) to get non-Arab sources secured. 100% production is bound for the Mediterranean coast.

A major supply of oil is being re-routed away from Russia and they have an opportunity to vent some anger at Georgia for this change under the guise of protecting their ethnic bretheren.







The Prophet(SAW) said:
"I am leaving you two things and you will never go astray as long as you cling to them -- they are the Book of Allah and my Sunnah." [Reported by Al- Haakim - Sahih].
psyah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 12:34 PM   #44 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
mercenary2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 12, 2006 - 2:56 am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 8,093
Good News Muslim Brothers

Israel is backing Georgia in its war with Russia and Russia is threatening to cut ties with Israel as Israel has sold over 400 million in weapons to Georgia

So naturally, the muslims should back Russia in its war with Georgia, right?

DEBKAfile - Israel backs Georgia in Caspian Oil Pipeline Battle with Russia






mercenary2k is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 01:56 PM   #45 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
USResident's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 31, 2005 - 11:21 am
Posts: 2,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercenary2k View Post
Good News Muslim Brothers

Israel is backing Georgia in its war with Russia and Russia is threatening to cut ties with Israel as Israel has sold over 400 million in weapons to Georgia

So naturally, the muslims should back Russia in its war with Georgia, right?

DEBKAfile - Israel backs Georgia in Caspian Oil Pipeline Battle with Russia
Muslims do not always have to sit opposite to Israel. Israel is doing it to protect western interests which coincide with its own. Middle eastern countries do not have to say peep, they have their own oil. Better to shutup and be a spectator.






USResident is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 01:59 PM   #46 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 7, 2001 - 1:00 am
Posts: 8,674
Blog Entries: 1
So what show is more spectacular, the Chinese Olympics with it's grand opening or Russia with it's onslaught of a country that has a population of 4.6 million?

This situation greatly magnifies how badly the U.S. and EU needs to get off foreign oil. Russia has clearly gone beyond it's stated goal of 'protecting' those in South Ossetia as it pours troops over the boarder and into Georgia, a small country of 4.6 million. Let the world see the barbaric face of Russia clearly and without the filter they used to justify the barbaric acts in Chechnya.






underthedome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 02:07 PM   #47 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
USResident's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 31, 2005 - 11:21 am
Posts: 2,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by underthedome View Post
So what show is more spectacular, the Chinese Olympics with it's grand opening or Russia with it's onslaught of a country that has a population of 4.6 million?

This situation greatly magnifies how badly the U.S. and EU needs to get off foreign oil. Russia has clearly gone beyond it's stated goal of 'protecting' those in South Ossetia as it pours troops over the boarder and into Georgia, a small country of 4.6 million. Let the world see the barbaric face of Russia clearly and without the filter they used to justify the barbaric acts in Chechnya.
Is there any country which doesn't need oil. US and UK are no exception. What it does magnify is that US cannot meddle wherever they want without repercussions. And it also serves as an eye-opener to countries who wish to be front-runners for western politics that they are just the pawns in a chess game. And it does expose Russia's way of dealing with things. Diplomacy later, you screw us then we'll screw you back, we can discuss the doctors report later on.

This is big cat fight, Russia the Lion just kicked US the Lion out of its prideland and now has turned its attention to the cubs.






USResident is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 02:20 PM   #48 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 17, 2005 - 8:35 pm
Posts: 2,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT View Post
No, Georgia is trying to give up and beg for peace. But looks like Vlad "The Impaler" Putin is in no mood to accept surrender. Russia's continuing to pound deeper and deeper inside Georgia.


It really does look like he is trying to send a strong message to any country that Russia considers to be in Russia's sphere of influence, that if you try and align with the West there will be consequences.

Ukraine would do well to pay attention to events in Georgia, lest it continues to try and push for closer ties to NATO and the EU too.
Although i am a big admirer of postwar soviet/russian military but i dont think that russians will attempt a similar campaign against ukraine, which is much bigger and militarily much more powerful than georgia [e.g gorgians have only 7 modern warplanes].There is a good chance that the russian military will suffer severe losses in conquering ukraine militarily.







My master is the one most entitled amongst creation to this matter by his excellence in religion, early merit in islam and close kinship with the messanger of God

-Bashir b Amr b Mihsan Al-Ansari
Das Reich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 02:21 PM   #49 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 7, 2001 - 1:00 am
Posts: 8,674
Blog Entries: 1
Georgia is not a puppet but a Democracy, elected fairly and freely. It's clear that support for the free and former soviet territories, the key word being former, must be brought closer to the U.S. and not be allowed to be threaten by Russia. If the message is for the U.S. to back off you can expect the answer to be a resounding no, the U.S. will support democracies without Russian permission and we see today in Georgia why this must be U.S. policy.






underthedome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 02:40 PM   #50 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 14, 2000 - 1:00 am
Location: relocation, relocation
Posts: 5,096
Blog Entries: 19
Interestingly both Abkhazia and Ossetia have substantial Muslim populations.







Nahin tera Nashaiman kasre sultani kay gumband par,
Tuu shaheen hai basera kar pahadun ki chatanu par ’
Zakk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 02:46 PM   #51 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
USResident's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 31, 2005 - 11:21 am
Posts: 2,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by underthedome View Post
Georgia is not a puppet but a Democracy, elected fairly and freely. It's clear that support for the free and former soviet territories, the key word being former, must be brought closer to the U.S. and not be allowed to be threaten by Russia. If the message is for the U.S. to back off you can expect the answer to be a resounding no, the U.S. will support democracies without Russian permission and we see today in Georgia why this must be U.S. policy.
Yes Georgia is a democracy but not without allegiance and inclination to a bigger power. Who such former territories should be brought closer to is a matter of whose better serves the interests of that country. US can support whoever they want however my point is their support does not always matter as is the case right now for Georgia. It is easy to sound magnifying NO's in words but other than that Georgians are the ones getting xeroxed. Both Russia and Western block have their own way to pressurizing countries to join them or not violate their wider agenda. Russians do it less diplomatically only because they can. If US was in a position to stick it to Russia militarily it would have done it by now. We know how lightening fast their response was when dealing with Afghanistan and Iraq. Similarly, Russia gave Georgia a lightening fast response. Countries who act on beahlf of their bigger master powers are always front runners in the battalion and have to pay the consequences for it. They are the first ones selected for oblivion. Pakistan is now becoming a prime example of that now as well just not as harsh as Georgia is though.






USResident is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 03:16 PM   #52 (permalink)
Genius
 
mAd_ScIeNtIsT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 5, 2001 - 7:00 am
Location: Body in Toronto, Canada; Heart in London, UK; Soul in Karachi, Pakistan
Posts: 22,588
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Das Reich View Post
Although i am a big admirer of postwar soviet/russian military but i dont think that russians will attempt a similar campaign against ukraine, which is much bigger and militarily much more powerful than georgia [e.g gorgians have only 7 modern warplanes].There is a good chance that the russian military will suffer severe losses in conquering ukraine militarily.
With a conscript army, you don't need to worry about severe losses. And Russia's oil wealth can pay to replace material losses.

Though Ukraine still has pwoerful pro-Russian politicians. The baltic states, with their large and allegedly oppressed ethnic Russian minorities, should be more worried.

After watching how the West let the admittedly non-NATO, but still pro-West Georgia be thrown to the dogs, what if Putin gets tempted to interfere in NATO members Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania?

With the USA and UK so overstretched in Iraq and Afghanistan, would Putin bet that NATO would be paralyzed with indecision and inability about whether to act against a Russian operation against the baltic states?

Europe is now extremely dependent on Russia for its energy needs. Rather than face the economic disaster of a war against Russia severing energy imports (let alone the potential disaster of nuclear weapons), NATO countries could lose guts and appease Russia should it turn on the baltics.

Of course, if Putin tries that and NATO discovers it has balls and activates agaist Russia, then things get interesting, in a very bad way.

Though the likelyhood of this scenario is extremely low, just in case I'm going to renew my Pakistani passport. At the first hint of a potential NATO/Russia conflict I'm going to be on the first available flight to Pakistan to get the hell out of dodge!






mAd_ScIeNtIsT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 04:36 PM   #53 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
mercenary2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 12, 2006 - 2:56 am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 8,093
^^ This action reminds me of how Hitler invaded Poland in September 1939 which was a strong ally of France and England...the west did nothing to help Poland but then got dragged into a major war with Germany.

Russia is acting like the way Germany did in the 1930's expanding and trying to gain all the territory it lost during the break up of the soviet union






mercenary2k is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 04:47 PM   #54 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 7, 2001 - 1:00 am
Posts: 8,674
Blog Entries: 1
Dide note: Bush will be making a statement about the situation from the White House shortly after a UN emergency meeting begins at 5:00.






underthedome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 05:27 PM   #55 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
mercenary2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 12, 2006 - 2:56 am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 8,093
^^ The only thing Bush can do is deploy the 82nd Airborne Division in the Capital city of Georgia and tell Russia that it cannot advance beyond that perimeter

or get Turkey which is the only NATO member which shares a border with Georgia to send its ground forces into Georgia to deter Russia

This has all the makings of a major war






mercenary2k is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 07:54 PM   #56 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 17, 2005 - 8:35 pm
Posts: 2,319
^ then it will inevitably be a NATO vs Russia war if turkey gets involved.

the baltic states scenario is interesting though, maybe the poles will retaliate by besieging kaliningrad ?






Das Reich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 09:33 PM   #57 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
vroom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 9, 2006 - 10:35 am
Posts: 1,318
as we speak, russias probably getting ready to interfere in iraq and afghanistan. the end result of which is uncertain but in the meantime iraqis and afghanis are likely to suffer






vroom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11th, 2008, 09:41 PM   #58 (permalink)
Kher Andesh
 
Faisal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 9, 1999 - 3:00 pm
L