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Is it time for Kashmir’s Azadi? Yes, Say 59 Per Cent Indians
Srinagar, Aug 20: In the Valley people are out for Azadi (freedom). In India, people too want Azadi from Kashmir. At least media says so.
In a programme, Face the Nation, on the CNN-IBN news channel last night, 59 per cent people said that it is time for Kashmir’s Azadi.
The host Sagarika Ghosh asked viewers to answer whether it is time for Kashmir’s Azadi? The response after the show, in which BJP’s Arun Jaitley, Congress’ Abhsiek Singhvi and Mehbooba Mufti of PDP participated, was in support of Azadi with 59 percent favoring it.
The debate commenced on comments of author and activist Arundhati Roy on Kashmir. Roy on Monday after participating in a rally to the UN office in Srinagar had said, “The reaction of the people in Kashmir is actually a referendum. People don’t need anyone to represent them; they are representing themselves. India needs freedom from Kashmir as much as Kashmir needs freedom from India.”
Arun Jaitley, in response, described comments of writers including that of Vir Sanghvi and Swaminathan Ayar as “mere comments having no bearing on functioning of the government.” He said writers were free to write anything but they don’t run the State.
On Sunday, Vir Sanghvi wrote in the Hindustan Times, “Whatever happens, how can India lose? If you believe in democracy, then giving Kashmiris the right to self-determination is the correct thing to do. And even if you don’t, surely we will be better off being rid of this constant, painful strain on our resources, our lives, and our honour as a nation?”
Arguably India’s most read columnist, Swaminathan A Aiyar, argued in his Sunday column for The Times of India: “We promised Kashmiris a plebiscite six decades ago. Let us hold one now…Let Kashmiris decide the outcome, not the politicians and armies of India and Pakistan.”
The writers, Arun Jaitley said, don’t run the State, and their comments make no difference. Jaitley said the protests in Kashmir and in Jammu shouldn’t be equated. “The protesters in Jammu carry the tri-color while as in Kashmir they carry Pakistani flags,” he said.
In response, Mehbooba Mufti said protests in Kashmir were peaceful. She said the protesters in Kashmir have not resorted to violence unlike Jammu where protesters carry tri-color and at the same time lob petrol bombs on Kashmiri drivers on the highway.
Abhishek Singhvi said it was only the Congress led UPA government which was trying to solve the problem. He dismissed the remarks about inefficiency of the Congress government and said, “Tell me the party which is reaching out to concerned people in Jammu and Kashmir to resolve the issue.”
Sagarika Ghosh asked Mehbooba Mufti what mainstream parties are doing when Geelani states “we are Pakistanis.” She asked her to comment on Azadi, Mehbooba responded by saying, “Yes, we want resolution of Kashmir problem, we want opening of Muzaffarabad Road, yes we are for joint management.”
While some Indians may deny what's building up, but it's very apparent that the Indepedent Kashmir talks are ongoing even in New Delhi. Recently the Indian media has openly held talks with members of Congress and BJP on the prospect of a free Kashmir.
If this wave can turn into a tide and become a sore thumb for India, it may just become a reality most will need to face. Some sooner than later.
I guess that's the price India will have to pay for being the world's largest democracy, to have no skeletons in its closet. Occupied territory being the largest one of them. This will allow India to further concentrate on its economy and perhaps reinforce its regional influence.
Here is the show CNN-IBN's Face the Nation show that was recently aired:
Part 1
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Part 2
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Part 3
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Part 4
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Part 5
It is very easy for arm chair writers to sit and hallucinate. These guys want to court controversy to increase their TRP ratings. Arun Jaitley has put it rightly. These writers and the so called thought leaders do not run a state. This 59% that is being quoted is just statistics and nothing more. If the government makes some noise about giving freedom to Kashmir, there will be turmoil in India. No govt will risk such a situation.
While some Indians may deny what's building up, but it's very apparent that the Indepedent Kashmir talks are ongoing even in New Delhi. Recently the Indian media has openly held talks with members of Congress and BJP on the prospect of a free Kashmir.
If this wave can turn into a tide and become a sore thumb for India, it may just become a reality most will need to face. Some sooner than later.
Comeon,pls be a realistic.Noone in Delhi is talking abt an independent Kashmir but some may talking abt it's accession to Pakistan and they are at.........
2/50-G, Shantipath, Chanakyapuri
Can somebody in India even think of allowing Kashmir,that's the integral part of India,be given in to the hands of some people who will harm our Kashmiri brothers and sisters?
Can somebody in India even think of allowing Kashmir,that's the integral part of India,be given in to the hands of some people who will harm our Kashmiri brothers and sisters?
Yea, Indian army that has killed over 100,000 Kashmiris over last 20 years & rapped countless women. As for Kashmir, its disputed territory according the UN & it was never & it will never be part of India.
“As long as I have any choice, I will stay only in a country where political liberty, toleration, and equality of all citizens before the law are the rule.” Albert Einstein
While some Indians may deny what's building up, but it's very apparent that the Indepedent Kashmir talks are ongoing even in New Delhi. Recently the Indian media has openly held talks with members of Congress and BJP on the prospect of a free Kashmir.
If this wave can turn into a tide and become a sore thumb for India, it may just become a reality most will need to face. Some sooner than later.
Comeon,pls be a realistic.Noone in Delhi is talking abt an independent Kashmir but some may talking abt it's accession to Pakistan and they are at.........
2/50-G, Shantipath, Chanakyapuri
Can somebody in India even think of allowing Kashmir,that's the integral part of India,be given in to the hands of some people who will harm our Kashmiri brothers and sisters?
Please do watch the recent news reports originating from Indian capital. I'm sure they'll serve as an eye-opener to you.
And if you're so very concerned about the well-being of your Kashmiri brethen, then you ought to do something about it. Start a campaign, convince the Kashmiris that their well-being is with India. Though i doubt they'll take you very seriously.
By Al Asr, Verily (all) the humans are in a great loss except those who believe and undertake pious deeds, and encourage one another to the Truth and encourage one another to patience
While some Indians may deny what's building up, but it's very apparent that the Indepedent Kashmir talks are ongoing even in New Delhi. Recently the Indian media has openly held talks with members of Congress and BJP on the prospect of a free Kashmir.
First of all I am happy that our friends from Pakistan are quoting the Indian media. It might be a surprise for them but if you look at the media for last 20 years reporting on Kashmir, it has always had a balanced view. In the past also practically all secessionist leaders have been given fair airtime to express their views.
Now coming to the situation at hand right now in Kashmir – it is a political situation which needs deft political handling and time to sort out. This is not something new for India. In the past also – recently in Punjab, a similar situation was prevalent. However it was handled politically and Punjab is one of the leading states of the nation.So please be in no doubt that there are NO talks of Kashmiri independence going on in Delhi. In fact the major point in this is the role of Pakistan. After all the movement for restoration of land did not start till Mirwaiz went to Pakistan and meet Musharaf.
The land issue was passed by the cabinet towards the end of May and it was only after his return in end of June the movement took a turn. It was not a coincidence that the two factions of Hurriyat came together again for this.The role of Musharaf in all this will turn out in near future. After all the largest demonstrations were held during the time Musharaf was asked to leave. A good part of his speech on August 14 was concentrated on Kashmir (after all he became a dictator riding on Kashmir cause after Kargil debacle). He was desperate for some action so that the spot light would be away from him. That is why the official Pakistani line was much muted in spite of the large demonstrations in Kashmir. No one in India or Pakistan wanted a situation in Kashmir that would have given a life line to him
.As you said India is a democracy and it knows how to deal with the skeletons in a democratic manner. They have nothing to hide or run from and can face this challenge politically.
Being an Indian & a muslim I feel Kashmir will be head ache for India for ever.Better than curing it we just remove this headache.Reason for my thinking is below.
Our Marketing manager is a Kashmiri.Here is short script of one of our conversations.
Me: Actually what is the problem for Kashmiris?.
He: Indian Army.
Me :Then what about pre -1989?.
He : We were struggling for Independance after 56.but pre-89 it was silent.
Me :I asked why you need to be out of India?.
He :India is Hindu country where Pakistan is muslim country and partition time we wanted to join Pakistan.
Me : History can not be re written.Why not kashmiris spend a good life rather than wasting life like this?.
He : Paksitanis are our Musilm brothers.
Me: Then what about Bangaldesh.How it's people were treated by your muslim brothers?
He:That is different case.But Our Culture is same as them(Pakistanis)
At the end of the conversation I asked the his wife.How many time he prays?
The answer was :Fridays.
Why an Indian musilms worry about these kind of people.
At the end I asked him that how many Kashmiris he could find in all this 5 lakh Expatriots( We are working in GCC country) in a decent
position in a good company and how many from Kerala(my own state) and I told just Compare it.I told him this is because we gave importance to education.We have many musilm oraganisations in Kerala.Each are trying to set up an school or an hospital or a proffessional college that is why We Kerala Muslims progressed.He had no answer.After the end of our conversation also he was talking 'Hum chahe aazaadi'.
Having said this don't label me as 'Indian spy' or 'Hindu agent'.I am not saying that Indian Army is Sacred.They have commited a lot of atrocities just like any other army and we strongly protest these.
If they (Kashmiris) do not want India then Khalaas.Who want them?.
NB:I like the hospitality of the Kashmir people,but I hate their communalist thinking.
Being an Indian & a muslim I feel Kashmir will be head ache for India for ever.Better than curing it we just remove this headache.Reason for my thinking is below.
If they (Kashmiris) do not want India then Khalaas.Who want them?.
.
You are not alone an Indian journalist wrote that long time ago and said with time it will sink in.
The Times of India..
Roy agrees wholeheartedly with disinvestment minister Arun Shourie that there is no point in retaining assets that do not yield returns. He sees Kashmir as a poor asset that yields no returns to India, yet is viewed as valuable by foreign bidders. So, he says, let us disinvest Kashmir. Often, a government strips assets from an unproductive company before disinvestment. So, says Roy, let us strip off Ladakh and Jammu, which would like to continue to be with India. Let us then auction the valley. Roy's article is very funny, but it should not be dismissed as a joke. It is written in a lighter vein, but has a serious underlying strain. This is the first time I have seen such a succinct formulation by a Hindu nationalist on the need to dispose of Kashmir in the interests of Hindus. Starting from very different premises, it is nevertheless compatible with a Muslim nationalist view or a libertarian view on self-determination for Kashmiris. I do not think the RSS or other Hindu nationalist organisations will accept it anytime soon. But in the long run, peace requires a formulation that can be sold to Hindu nationalists, and this looks a good candidate.
Nothing will happen. The situation will remain the same.
Pakistan will hold the occupied kashmir it has and india will hold on its land.
It's funny when Bharatis call Pakistani Kashmir as "occupied Kashmir", and their Kashmir "atoot ang".
Last time I checked, it was Kashmir under Bharati control which had the independence movement going on.
Pakistani flags are again out in Pundit occupied Kashmir. It is only natural. ALL Kashmir is ethnically, religiously, linguistically, economically, and geographically linked to Pakistan.
It was only Pundit Nehru's 'zidd' to keep his 'janam-bhoomi' in Bharat-Mata, without any regard to aspirations of people of Kashmir. tsk tsk.
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Location: usually somewhere between srinagar and san francisco
Posts: 1,297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Abbas
ALL Kashmir is ethnically, religiously, linguistically, economically, and geographically linked to Pakistan.
Kashmir may be economically, geographically, and religiously linked to Pakistan, but ethnicity and language are another matter entirely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Abbas
It was only Pundit Nehru's 'zidd' to keep his 'janam-bhoomi' in Bharat-Mata
Nehru's "janam-bhoomi" was UP, as was his father's, his grandfather, his great-grandfather's, and so on. The family left Kashmir and settled in India hundreds of years before Partition
Location: usually somewhere between srinagar and san francisco
Posts: 1,297
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashq
Me :Then what about pre -1989?.
I find it hard to believe that your manager mentioned nothing about the decades of sham "democracy" and fixed elections that preceded 1989, not to mention the theft of our promised autonomy after just a few years of Indian rule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashq
He:That is different case.But Our Culture is same as them(Pakistanis)
Another rather unbelievable statement. Even Kashmiris from backwater villages pride themselves on the uniqueness of our culture, and consider themselves completely culturally distinct from the Mirpuris from across the LoC, let alone the rest of Pakistan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashq
At the end I asked him that how many Kashmiris he could find in all this 5 lakh Expatriots( We are working in GCC country) in a decent
position in a good company and how many from Kerala(my own state) and I told just Compare it.I told him this is because we gave importance to education.We have many musilm oraganisations in Kerala.Each are trying to set up an school or an hospital or a proffessional college that is why We Kerala Muslims progressed.
1. Few will argue against the fact that Kerala's Muslims are comparatively better off than their counterparts in the rest of the country. But tell me, if Kerala really is such a wonderful place, why are Muslims so poorly represented in the public sector there? They make up 25% of the population, and hold only 10% of government jobs.
2. As far as Kashmiri expatriates are concerned, you're right, you won't find very many of us lining up to become maids and construction workers in Kuwait and Abu Dhabi. In the Western world, you'll find plenty of well placed Kashmiris, from CEOs of billion dollar companies to senior officials in the US government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashq
If they (Kashmiris) do not want India then Khalaas.Who want them?.
Always good to hear. A few years back, most Indian Muslims would just whine about what the Hindus would do to them if Kashmir got its independence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashq
NB:I like the hospitality of the Kashmir people,but I hate their communalist thinking.
One man's sectarianism is another man's nationalism.
Kashmir may be economically, geographically, and religiously linked to Pakistan, but ethnicity and language are another matter entirely.
There are more people of Kashmiri origin in Pakistan than Bharat.
Quote:
Nehru's "janam-bhoomi" was UP, as was his father's, his grandfather, his great-grandfather's, and so on. The family left Kashmir and settled in India hundreds of years before Partition
